Grid trading: Does it work?

No. You're missing the point. At 100 pips away, whether it be 100 up or 100 down, I can get the same position as you, by paying 1 spread, that you pay 4 for. How your can your system ever make sense like that. If I mirror every position you take, and pay a spread of 2, whereas you're paying a spread of 8, who is going to come off better?

If you open two positions in the opposite direction from one level, you have paid the spread twice and have NO position. You have just given money away to your broker. If you want to give your money away freely, give it to a good cause.

Yes, I see. But thats how the grids seem to be applied.
My original suggestion was to use Stochastics at any reasonable setting, and to keep losing trades open until they could be netted off to zero.
Also to avoid new trades if they were within a set amount. For example, if I got a buy on the Stochs at X, and then another at (X+70), I would ignore it as it was below 100. And only take new ones if the price was 100+.
This would reduce collecting a heavy position at a rangey point.
This would also mean taking directional trades, but managing losers by trying to pair them off and close at some aggregate position.

It would seem the exercise is doomed.
Ah well, worth a try. Can't say I didn't give it my best shot, rather than just reject it out of hand.
 
Ok, first, there is no point opening two positions that are opposite at the same level. That is called no position. So throw that out for starters. It is barking mad to pay 2 lots of spread to have no position.

That means you consider doing as counter violent did in his thread on gold. That is take position long at a certain point, if it goes against you, take another position long, and keep doing so at different levels that is your 'grid'. Similarly take a short position at different levels of your grid if you wish. This is grid trading as I understood it, and is possible to make money from, but risky if you get on the wrong side of a trend.

If you enter at points that have meaning rather than every 100 pips, and use very small stakes, then I can see that it could work. I still don't think it is the best way, but it is at least possible.
 
What is grid trading?
And why is it frowned upon? (if other sites forums (fora?)) are to go by)
Does it work? If not, what is conceptually wrong with it?
I don't remember what grid trading is, and can't be arsed to Google it, therefore I conclude that it does not work.

If anyone wants any further clarification, I am quite willing not to give it.
 
Ok, first, there is no point opening two positions that are opposite at the same level. That is called no position. So throw that out for starters. It is barking mad to pay 2 lots of spread to have no position.

That means you consider doing as counter violent did in his thread on gold. That is take position long at a certain point, if it goes against you, take another position long, and keep doing so at different levels that is your 'grid'. Similarly take a short position at different levels of your grid if you wish. This is grid trading as I understood it, and is possible to make money from, but risky if you get on the wrong side of a trend.

If you enter at points that have meaning rather than every 100 pips, and use very small stakes, then I can see that it could work. I still don't think it is the best way, but it is at least possible.

I am very much aware of counter_violents out-of-the-box thread. One of my favourites. (y)

I didn't want to plagarise his excellent work and claim it as my own.
This thread is about my own thoughts, hopefully original.
 
Grid trading works well for me! But you must understand that grid must have stop-lose order!
There is few kind of grids. Then you must analyze the market to find best price to set-up a grid.
Also you must know exact time when to begin with. Set up take profit! Best grid is One-way grid!
You must be familiar with trading instrument (currency pair) that you trade.
Grid is the best tool for side-way trend!
 
Have been made aware of a grid where you start with a baseline value, a "zero point", and only takes buys if market moves x pips above, and only take sells below the zero-point.

this way, you are only taking one position (not 2 as per Shakones comments), and this position is in the direction of the move.

the downside is that at some point the move, whether up or down, will accumulate aggregate losing positions as the price starts to return to the zero-point. and calling off the losing positions can only come if the opposing positions on the other side of the zero-point are as strong. so here, you're still dependent on some form of median averaging.

since the problem of grid-trading hinges around margin, and the need for deep pockets to ride out the outlier trades, and hedge funds and professional money managers are the ones with deep pockets, and no hedge fund or pros uses grids, maybe that says it all as to their (lack of) utility.

the need to trade grids relies on the concept of return-to-median. the failure is due to the almost exponential accruing of liabilities when a trend occurs.

as part of my research, I came across Bird Watching In Lion Country, which seems to be a sort of "intelligent" grid.
it was certainly an interesting exercise to learn about grids.

EDIT: of all the variants I did analyse, across a number of forums, nothing seemed to work "properly". What I mean is, conceptually, the grid would "break" at some point, and successful grid-traders added some component of closing a grid when "x" amount made, of other reason to make profits. I couldnt find anything that was valid in the long term.

The one useful thing I learned was that counter_violents thread about not taking losses may have some value, as I tried a simple Stochastics buy/sell method, and if I left the losing trades open, I could nett them off at some point against a winning one to reduce margin reqs. However, commissions and overnight charges were not accounted for, so my conclusions are indeterminate.
NB: I was buying when stochs went over 80, and selling when stochs went below 20; not the other way around. I was effectively using stochs to anticipate breakouts, not reversions to mean. I used a time-frame of 15-mins and 30-mins, and used stochs settings where new trades were allowed to exist for days at a time, not intra-day.
(I also didnt accumulate positions at the same price; new signals had to be "better" by at least 50-100 pips, or the new position was ignored)
 
Last edited:
whoops: credits: Bird Watching In Lion Country by Dirk du Toit.
available from all good bookshops, and downloadable pdfs.
 
Have been made aware of a grid where you start with a baseline value, a "zero point", and only takes buys if market moves x pips above, and only take sells below the zero-point.

this way, you are only taking one position (not 2 as per Shakones comments), and this position is in the direction of the move.

the downside is that at some point the move, whether up or down, will accumulate aggregate losing positions as the price starts to return to the zero-point. and calling off the losing positions can only come if the opposing positions on the other side of the zero-point are as strong. so here, you're still dependent on some form of median averaging.

since the problem of grid-trading hinges around margin, and the need for deep pockets to ride out the outlier trades, and hedge funds and professional money managers are the ones with deep pockets, and no hedge fund or pros uses grids, maybe that says it all as to their (lack of) utility.

the need to trade grids relies on the concept of return-to-median. the failure is due to the almost exponential accruing of liabilities when a trend occurs.

as part of my research, I came across Bird Watching In Lion Country, which seems to be a sort of "intelligent" grid.
it was certainly an interesting exercise to learn about grids.

EDIT: of all the variants I did analyse, across a number of forums, nothing seemed to work "properly". What I mean is, conceptually, the grid would "break" at some point, and successful grid-traders added some component of closing a grid when "x" amount made, of other reason to make profits. I couldnt find anything that was valid in the long term.

The one useful thing I learned was that counter_violents thread about not taking losses may have some value, as I tried a simple Stochastics buy/sell method, and if I left the losing trades open, I could nett them off at some point against a winning one to reduce margin reqs. However, commissions and overnight charges were not accounted for, so my conclusions are indeterminate.
NB: I was buying when stochs went over 80, and selling when stochs went below 20; not the other way around. I was effectively using stochs to anticipate breakouts, not reversions to mean. I used a time-frame of 15-mins and 30-mins, and used stochs settings where new trades were allowed to exist for days at a time, not intra-day.
(I also didnt accumulate positions at the same price; new signals had to be "better" by at least 50-100 pips, or the new position was ignored)

I have try all of this long time ago!
Best thing to do with it is to forget all you know and start all over again step by step!
I will ask a question and you will give the answer! What do you say???
 
I have try all of this long time ago!
Best thing to do with it is to forget all you know and start all over again step by step!
I will ask a question and you will give the answer! What do you say???

willing to learn.
go for it!
 
Ok let's begin!

First question:

Grid trading is best for side-way market (trend)!

Yes or No ???
 
Ok let's begin!

First question:

Grid trading is best for side-way market (trend)!

Yes or No ???

tough one!
since grids rely in leaving positions open until they "come good", this is based on the belief price will eventually revisit / return to median, so, grid-trading is best for sideways market.
(also, since the problems seem to be unfilled"dangle" trades, this reinforces this assumption.)

so, Yes, sideways.

to be pedantic, I think grid-trading also attracts those who cant take a loss, but thats an aspect of the psychology of traders.
 
Ok, It Is sideways!

Questions:

If you have side-way trend where would you put BUY order?
A) near support line
B) near resistance line
C) at median trend line



If you have side-way trend where would you put SELL order?
A) near support line
B) near resistance line
C) at median trend line
 
Ok, It Is sideways!

Questions:

If you have side-way trend where would you put BUY order?
A) near support line
B) near resistance line
C) at median trend line



If you have side-way trend where would you put SELL order?
A) near support line
B) near resistance line
C) at median trend line

if its sideways, you would be best served by placing BUY orders at support, and SELL orders at resistance.

This is based on the assumption that you can, using your tolerance for risk and time-frame, determine where you see support and resistance. (if you had a short time-frame, your sup/res levels may be 200 pips apart. if you had a longer view, you may see sup/res levels which are 600 pips apart. this affects the size of your grid, the level of margin required, etc)

in a grid, and you define a median, and "assume prices will revert", BUYs below median, and SELLs above median.

however, the thing about sup/res, once it fails, prices are unlikely to revisit! this leads to almost guaranteed losses as price finds a new set of sup/res levels.
 
if its sideways, you would be best served by placing BUY orders at support, and SELL orders at resistance.

That is correct!!!

Grid concept is all about averaging the position!

Yes or NO?
 
if its sideways, you would be best served by placing BUY orders at support, and SELL orders at resistance.

That is correct!!!

Grid concept is all about averaging the position!

Yes or NO?

Yes.
 
OK!
What have you hear about averaging the position?
Is it good?
is it bad thing to do?
If you don't know when to quit adding to a loosing position it can sweep out entire account!
 
If you don't know WHEN to quit adding to a loosing position it can sweep out entire account!

What they mean with: "WHEN" to quit? Or it can be "WHEN" to start?

WHEN is all about:

a) price
b)time
c)both

???????
 
OK!
What have you hear about averaging the position?
Is it good?
is it bad thing to do?
If you don't know when to quit adding to a loosing position it can sweep out entire account!

Averaging, is generally frowned upon. It is used to suggest that initial entry wasnt as optimal as it could have been, hence the need to average. (although averaging into a winning position is accepted)

the losing position will blow the account if the number of positions are too great. so maybe limit the number of positions, or ensure they are wide apart.

this causes dissonance.
the market starts to move away from your personal position, and rather than accept that the sup/res range has broken, you end up adding to an existing losing position.
if you have 4 positions, and you're wrong, and you add a new averaging position, you now have 5 positions, and the market is going against you (faster).

the essence here is to know the point where you think you have failed, and to exit the losses.

unless, of course, if you accept the position is a losing one, 4 positions for example, you decide to offset it with a 5 positions in the new direction. here, you're just "fixing" your 4 position loss, and have a nett exposure of 1 position in the new direction.

the grid needs a point where you accept the grid has failed. thats the principle that tends not to be considered, and causes exponential failures.

(you can see I have thought about this!)
 
Top