Gas (64% increase) & Electricity Bills

[Atilla]

Hi everyone,

Just received my British Gas: Gas & Electricity bills and would like to carry out a survey by declaring my bills online... I hope you'll reciprocate by quoting who your supplier is and how much you pay. Obviously no need to declare amounts if you choose not to but if you could mention % increases I think it would be interesting to see what's going round...

Here is mine. Supplier for both is British Gas.

No change in Electricity bill so far - still paying £30 per month on DD

Gas bill has gone up from £42 to £69 per month on DD.

I make this a 64%.


I'm shocked as this is effectively £828 per annum. Council tax is £167 pm = £2K pa not to mention all the other utility bills.

Boy if this is what's coming round the corner there is so much pain due it's going to hurt a lot...

Meeedddddiiiiicccccccccccc !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-0

 

[shadowninja]

I think the Tories should use this at the next election.

YouTube - D:ream - things can only get better

 

[0007]

Just done the calcs. I'm with EDF. Figures adjusted to give meaningful comparison.

Elec: April 07 - April 08 : no change (quite surprised me)
Gas: Sep 07 - Jun 08 : 11.4% increase (smaller than I expected)

Bracing myself for worse to come.

Don't use DD (they always take more than you use & you have the bother of reclaiming). Wouldn't use Br. Gas if they were last supplier on earth. Their customer service is appalling - used to be among the best many years ago.

 

[normbeef]

I think the Tories should use this at the next election.

YouTube - D:ream - things can only get better

Didnt Labour use this to get Blair in first time round ???...

Before I sold my house my bills were...

Gas bill is £55 per month... (British Gas) (this is with condensing boiler and lots of insulation)
Electric is £35 per month (British Gas)

My Energy costs are hedged as I buy Funds in Russia and OIL companies... :clap: they are the ones making all the money from GAS... lol...

I think you will see some growth in companies offering sustainable enegry efficient housing over the next few years...as it becomes more mainstream and financially attractive.. (it will need to be with the size of the Energy bills)

Sure I have read somewhere that the government has set a deadline of 2016 for "ALL" new homes to be Carbon Neutral.. !!! and be massivly more energy effiecient..

 

[westernforce]

Even down under the per unit cost of Electricity has gone up, 14%, on the west coast anyway The beauty of solar heating means an electric bill of $118 AUD per two months

hooray for the sun :clap:

 

[normbeef]

Even down under the per unit cost of Electricity has gone up, 14%, on the west coast anyway The beauty of solar heating means an electric bill of $118 AUD per two months

hooray for the sun :clap:

dont get too cocky mate... cause I reckon Oz might get invaded by loads of cold pomms

 

[shadowninja]

Didnt Labour use this to get Blair in first time round ???...

Eggshackly!

 

[Atilla]

Eggshackly!

Hi everyone,

Thank you for your replies and experiences with the bills. I have a conspiracy theory about these energy price rises.

I reckon the politicians are so hell bent on getting power they will not raise taxes under any circumstance as who ever does knows they'll get the boot.

Thus they'll let these big privatised indusrties raise the pricing way above their cost + X level as agreed my Monopolies and Merges Commission in the past and make abnormal profits which will then face either a public or private windfall tax which will go back to the treasury.

I really do.

Can't wait to see the back of Labour but can't help feeling Conservatives not likely to be any better.

Taxes really must rise to save people from them selves and all that greed.

Ethics of taxation:

Equal people pay equal tax
Unequeal people pay unequal tax (progressive imo)
Tax must be efficient in collection (PAYE or VAT)

I think OAPs are likely to be the most affected with pittance pensions and grossly over charged fuel bills. Remember they most of them sit at home drinking tea and watching TV I guess. I say this with due respect.

 

[Trader333]

Thus they'll let these big privatised indusrties raise the pricing way above their cost + X level as agreed my Monopolies and Merges Commission in the past and make abnormal profits which will then face either a public or private windfall tax which will go back to the treasury.

Unlikely in my view as the rises are related to the wholesale prices and would require international conspiracy co-operation for any government to implement.

If you think that taxes should rise then wont this have the same effect end effect ?

I am still unclear on why you think that tax rises are still needed ? How will this help an economy that is rapidly in decline except to accelerate it and put more people out of work ?


Paul

 

[Atilla]

Unlikely in my view as the rises are related to the wholesale prices and would require international conspiracy co-operation for any government to implement.

Windfall profit tax has been used before in the UK. My point is allow big monopolistic companies to make abnormal profits and then tax them. Simple as Labour you are then taxing companies not workers.

If you think that taxes should rise then wont this have the same effect end effect ? Yes and this is what Mervyn King pointed out. Reduction is achieved in disposal income one way or another.

I am still unclear on why you think that tax rises are still needed ? How will this help an economy that is rapidly in decline except to accelerate it and put more people out of work ?


Paul

Ask your self this questions? There is rampant runaway inflation. Your target is 2%.

It is currently 3.3% and is expected to touch 4%.

1. What is inflation?
2. How do you control / bring inflation down?

 

[Trader333]

2. How do you control / bring inflation down?

In my view it depends on what is causing it. The historical view has been to raise interest rates to bring it down and this policy is fair in view of the fact that if inflation is above interest rates then savings get quickly devalued. Raising taxes will hit the poorest whilst the richest will do what they did in the 70s when this was tried and just left the country. You also get a lot of entrepreneurs and highly skilled people doing the same. If tax is too high you will drive away the very people who can help the economy get back to where it needs to be.

I would agree that raising VAT is a good option if it is retail sales that are causing inflation but today inflation is being caused by events outside the control of most governments. Most ordinary families are struggling and taxing them more will do nothing to help.


Paul

 

[MrGecko]

I caught this yesterday, it's extremely relevant to the discussion your having here.

BBC - BBC Parliament Programmes - Select Committees, Energy Prices Committee

Recorded coverage of the Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform select committee hearing on energy prices with Ofgem, Shell, BP and Exxon Mobil, from Tuesday 17 June. Proper grown up TV, not for the feint hearted.

You've got about 6 days to watch, it's well worth it IMO.

 

[Atilla]

In my view it depends on what is causing it. Oil price coupled with debt bubble.The historical view has been to raise interest rates to bring it down and this policy is fair in view of the fact that if inflation is above interest rates then savings get quickly devalued. (Monetary policy control supply side economics) Raising taxes will hit the poorest whilst the richest will do what they did in the 70s when this was tried and just left the country.On the contrary progressive taxation will hit the well off. Flat or proportional increases hit the poor more You also get a lot of entrepreneurs and highly skilled people doing the same. Yes stars and and the rich leave to ofshore accounts where they already hold their accounts. If tax is too high you will drive away the very people who can help the economy get back to where it needs to be. This is old Tory dogma.

I would agree that raising VAT is a good option if it is retail sales that are causing inflation but today inflation is being caused by events outside the control of most governments. Most ordinary families are struggling and taxing them more will do nothing to help.


Paul

There isn't much one can do about the price of oil but to switch to greener energy sources.

The problem remains of excess money sloshing about in the system. Whilst some people struggling good many people with plenty of cash who are spending. Simply look at the type and model of cars on the road.

We need to remove excess money from the real economy and raising taxes allows this to take place whilst bearing pressure on disposable income and ultimately inflation.

Raising interest rates will hit industry investment.

Raising energy input prices will hit the inflation headlines and raise cost of production.

If inflation is not tackled currency and exports will soon be hit further compounding our problems.

As an economist raising taxes is the best most efficient and direct way whilst encouraging industry. Government can then re-invest in necessary infrastructure services to promote well being of the country.

 

[Trader333]

There isn't much one can do about the price of oil but to switch to greener energy sources.

Well the latest greener energy sources (biofuels) have caused a massive increase in food prices therefore directly impacting inflation negatively.

Whilst some people struggling good many people with plenty of cash who are spending. Simply look at the type and model of cars on the road.

This is, and will continue, to change. You know as well as I do that almost all of this has been paid for by using house price inflation as ATM machines to fund this sort of thing. That is now over and I am sure we will see this reduce rapidly as the full effects of the credit crunch continue.

We need to remove excess money from the real economy and raising taxes allows this to take place whilst bearing pressure on disposable income and ultimately inflation.

Excess money is already being substantially reduced and disposable incomes are dropping dramatically. Raising taxes to do this is a short term measure in my view.

Raising interest rates will hit industry investment.

When Japan had a similar problem and interest rates were effectively 0% it made no difference to investment or to their industry growth. There are also other ways to address this.

Raising energy input prices will hit the inflation headlines and raise cost of production.

I agree and this is already hammering the UK manufacturing sector. This could all have been avoided if we did what the French decided to do 25 years ago and invest in nuclear power stations

If inflation is not tackled currency and exports will soon be hit further compounding our problems.

I don't agree with this at all as it will be more affected by exchange rates in my view. Any inflationary costs could easily be offset by a fall in the GBP

As an economist raising taxes is the best most efficient and direct way whilst encouraging industry. Government can then re-invest in necessary infrastructure services to promote well being of the country.

This didn't work last time round so why will it work better this time ? Also I don't hear lots of other economists saying the same thing and in many cases they outrightly disagree.

The UK already pays more in tax than most other nations but you are saying that it is not enough and more is needed. In Germany they are seeing exactly what I said would happen if taxes are too high and that is an exodus of their most highly skilled labour and businesses.


Paul

 

[Atilla]

Well the latest greener energy sources (biofuels) have caused a massive increase in food prices therefore directly impacting inflation negatively.



This is, and will continue, to change. You know as well as I do that almost all of this has been paid for by using house price inflation as ATM machines to fund this sort of thing. That is now over and I am sure we will see this reduce rapidly as the full effects of the credit crunch continue.



Excess money is already being substantially reduced and disposable incomes are dropping dramatically. Raising taxes to do this is a short term measure in my view.

When Japan had a similar problem and interest rates were effectively 0% it made no difference to investment or to their industry growth. There are also other ways to address this.

I agree and this is already hammering the UK manufacturing sector. This could all have been avoided if we did what the French decided to do 25 years ago and invest in nuclear power stations

I don't agree with this at all as it will be more affected by exchange rates in my view. Any inflationary costs could easily be offset by a fall in the GBP

This didn't work last time round so why will it work better this time ? Also I don't hear lots of other economists saying the same thing and in many cases they outrightly disagree.

The UK already pays more in tax than most other nations but you are saying that it is not enough and more is needed. In Germany they are seeing exactly what I said would happen if taxes are too high and that is an exodus of their most highly skilled labour and businesses.


Paul

I beg to differ. We have to mutually disagree as I think we are on opposing views for tackling inflation.

Be interesting to see how it pans out. :cheers:

 

[normbeef]

Its a compelling argument at the moment... what happens...

1 . Raise interest rates at the risk of damaging growth and the already floundering housing market.. and "hope" it kills inflation ...

2. Keep them the same and hope the few cuts already made filter through to the "real" economy somehow.. although because of the credit markets this does not seem to have had the effect on mortgage borrowing rates I think the BOE had hoped for.

3. Start raising rates again in the hope that inflation will cool off...

Thing is the problems are much bigger than the BOE can deal with, they only have a limited toolbox with which to work... the inflation problems we are seeing are a much bigger issue than the UK alone, they are governed by Global demand / consumption and thus are vitrually impossible to Call..

Its funny how politicians and ecomomists never come clean about how little control they have over the economy... it seems clear to me that the only time we hear them say that it is a "global" issue is when the market is falling and people are bleating...

When life is good they take all the credit !! lol

 

[Atilla]

Its a compelling argument at the moment... what happens...

1 . Raise interest rates at the risk of damaging growth and the already floundering housing market.. and "hope" it kills inflation ...

2. Keep them the same and hope the few cuts already made filter through to the "real" economy somehow.. although because of the credit markets this does not seem to have had the effect on mortgage borrowing rates I think the BOE had hoped for.

3. Start raising rates again in the hope that inflation will cool off...

Thing is the problems are much bigger than the BOE can deal with, they only have a limited toolbox with which to work... the inflation problems we are seeing are a much bigger issue than the UK alone, they are governed by Global demand / consumption and thus are vitrually impossible to Call..

Its funny how politicians and ecomomists never come clean about how little control they have over the economy... it seems clear to me that the only time we hear them say that it is a "global" issue is when the market is falling and people are bleating...

When life is good they take all the credit !! lol

Too right. Economists can be real dick heads too. Had this whilst studying the subject matter between Monetarists (Milton Freedman of his day) and Keynesians (the late John Maynard Keynes contribution)...

In a nut shell Monetarist favour money supply side control and Keynesians prefer demand side management of the economy.

In reality you need both. Will common sense prevail... I doubt it.

I feel we are still missing the woods from the trees.

Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods. To suggest it is external and rising prices are due to input costs doesn't take away from the fact we have the money to spend on those rising prices.

Mervyn King is right. We shouldn't raise rates unless we absolutely have to and hope reduction in disposable incomes due to slowing economy and rising prices will be sufficient. During this time Labour government does jack but complicate taxation system and deals behind publics back with big energy providers imo.

Be interesting study to see how government responds in contrast to 1979 era of recession and mass strikes and Maggie decimating manufacturing industry.

Time will tell.

 

[normbeef]

Mervyn King is right. We shouldn't raise rates unless we absolutely have to and hope reduction in disposable incomes due to slowing economy and rising prices will be sufficient. During this time Labour government does jack but complicate taxation system and deals behind publics back with big energy providers imo.

Be interesting study to see how government responds in contrast to 1979 era of recession and mass strikes and Maggie decimating manufacturing industry.

Time will tell.

Yep .. I have been saying that rates might be on the rise for some time now.. (up until a month ago I was getting some funny looks) I dont really agree that they will stop inflation... and I think Merv is right to let it burn itself out as the economy slows...

But then I dont have much faith in the average Brit to stop spending money they dont have.

I think we have created a nation of shopping addicted morons... it seems sound financial planning has gone out of the window in most households.. and we are only seeing the beginings now of the current problems, if this is a protracted downturn MANY people are going to suffer...

 

[fibonelli]

What's not taught in Economics

If the (American) people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
-Thomas Jefferson, 1802 : Letter to Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin

The power to determine the quantity of money...is too important, too pervasive, to be exercised by a few people, however public-spirited, if there is any feasible alternative. There is no need for such arbitrary power ... Any system which gives so much power and so much discretion to a few men, [so] that mistakes - excusable or not - can have such far reaching effects, is a bad system. It is a bad system to believers in freedom just because it gives a few men such power without any effective check by the body politic - this is the key political argument against an independent central bank.
- Professor Milton Friedman