Finspreads - what a disgrace!

[martin brown]

aren...you sound like the sort of customer Finspreads and the spreadbetting companies love..

open a speadbetting account with little idea of what you are doing....seduced by the idea of tax free profits (not much use if you make a loss)...lose quite a bit of money....shut your account.....Finspreads move onto the next punter...

It is said 85% of traders lose. I'm sure the % of SB traders lose even more that this. I expect only 1-5% of SB traders make anything, and those that do make any profits will get the manual execution treatment as soon as they see you have skills.

Worse still, you can't claim CGT loss on a blown SB account.

 

[Peter]

I was watching the cash dow today as well as Finspreads... prices for the 1st hour..

I noted at around 14.59 hrs ....one minute to 15.00 hrs, THAT Finspreads price shot up from about
10860 to over 10872..... BUT the CASH Dow was still around 10857 to 10860...

I called them about this..

There reply was well we base our prices on the Mini Dow Futures... And IF the Futures market rises one minute or so before the cash dow we raise our cash dow price..accordingly..

Normally I think the prices dont vary that much admittely, BUT when they do, they really can Increase their value unfairly In my opinion..

Personally I think its wrong that they can increase their cash dow price based on the dow mini futures price.. MAYbe its OK OUT of hours, but once the cash market opens, any Dow cash traders can be at a severe disadvantage... I Know there are several Free or easy to obtain live chart services online etc, so its very tempting just to trade the dow cash mkt.

Overall MOST average traders WILL NOT have haave a LIVE mini dow futures chart to refer to...

IF its TRUE that the dow mini futures did move one up severely one minute earlier.. then they will almost always have the advantage.. I cant say as I dont have a live future feed to compare...

Maybe some one could confirm if it did move one minute early today...

Anyone watching the cash dow today at that time, if they were short it would have been one LONG minute wondering what was going on !!!..

 

[frugi]

10 second chart of Dow futs for ya.

 

[henry766]

You can blame them for a lot of things , but using the future price as opposed to the cash price isn't one of them , in my opinion.

 

[Peter]

thks Frugi..

thats an intersting time frame , and one can make their own conclusion on it..

As Ive no 10 sec chart for the cash I cannot compare... BUT it did appear that they were correct regarding what the futures did !!

the question is Should they be able to overprice the cash dow accordingly IF it was even say 20 seconds behind...

 

[henry766]

Frankly , yes ,if you get the future price also when opening the trade , which i suspect you do, you can't expect a spread betting company to take bets on what amounts to a lagging market, they may be unfair in a lot ofr ways , but not this , the cash price on an index like the dow 30 would be very hard to nail at it's quoted price if you were to try and buy ( or sell) the underlying , in fact the future price is probably the closest one can get to trading the underlying , because futures traders are the only people buying or selling all 30shares at one time ( all be it in the future).Whats more the price you see as the cash price is probably a mid price , which bears little relation to the true price if you were to try and trade it, to some extent , though lesser extent, true of futures price.

 

[Peter]

Hi Henry,

in this case , you may be right !

Its a tricky one.....but annoying if one is just using a live cash feed which only show each minute and not every 10 seconds or so...

I agree they also show the future price on their screen , but I find it tricky to watch both and realise whats is really happening just from price numbers... IT Much easier for me to see it in a chart form and actually see whats happened...

It annoys me though when one has placed a tightish stop.. say in this case the previous days or say last 10 min or 30 minute or hourly high.what ever time frame !.... then they raise their price 10 to 15 points very quickly and one doesnt see the cash market screen move accordinlgy...No doubt if one has the right feeds, this is the only way to have any chance with them..Ie one may decide to close a trade before a stop has been met, if one thinks they have got it wrong...

 

[henry766]

Hi Peter, I also watch the cash price and trade the futures price , at present on ladbrookes 5 min bet, it is a problem , there are many problems , sometimes i think trading is the house of frustration , i miss half my trades atleast through one thing or another , am continually getting sucked in by my frustration to trade substandered trades , i find it helps to be ready for these things , accept that it's going to be difficult frustrating etc , and then once accepted just do what you can!!

 

[stevespray]

Dow Cash is a lagging market. It is the index created based on the lasted traded price of each of the 30 stocks which make up the index. The 'Dow Cash' or Dow Jones Industrial Average (to give it its correct name) is not a tradable index in real terms - it doesnt really exist, its just a number which is created. The spreadbet companies create the index using the underlying Dow Futures market. Since, at the start of every trading session, it can take several minutes for each stock which makes up the 30 to trade it can be a good while before the Dow Cash (created by the s/b co's) and the indicated DJIA (on the likes of CNBC and other 'free' data providers) actually line up. This doesnt mean that they are tricking you. If they were then the more informed would just sell / buy the other side of the price to make free money. The DJIA is calculated from the last traded price of the 30 stocks. This means that until a stock is traded the last traded price is the previous close. If a stock has news on it then the market makers will not let it trade until it looks like the order book roughly balances. This can take upto 15 - 20 mins on occasion. The result of this is that quite often a stock which has news on it will not actually trade and thus effect the actual DJIA for 15 - 20 mins. As a result the DJIA will suddenly 'snap' back into line as soon as the stock trades. The Dow Futures will however discount all known information in a split second and this is why the companies based their prices on the futures.

Hope this helps,
Steve.

 

[Pippppin]

Many spreadbetters do not seem to understand that the shorter the time frame they are trading, the less likely they are to profit, since the spreadbetting company will always be one step ahead.

 

[stevespray]

Many spreadbetters do not seem to understand that the shorter the time frame they are trading, the less likely they are to profit, since the spreadbetting company will always be one step ahead.

Agree with what you say. Not that I would call it "one step ahead" though. People lose money in any market not just through spreadbetting. For the most part the companies dont really have to do that much to encourage losses on the part of the customers - bad traders will quite often remain bad traders.

The key is to a) understand the instrument that you are trading, and b) understand the company / platform that you are trading with.
Good trading comes through controlling losses. The gains will take care of themselves. Quite often people approach it the other way around.

Steve.

 

[Splitlink]

I have never understood the attitude of posters such as those who blame Fins for all their woes.

I have just closed CPI on an overnight trade for a profit of 46.8 points. I had no trouble, just pressed the trade key and closed in seconds.

So what's the problem? Perhaps it's because I trade LSE stocks and nothing else. Other instruments, such as Forex, perhaps.?

My opinion is that first timers should remember that if they make hasty decisions, then they are going to lose their money. The company is a betting firm and are not angels. I make no excuses for them, it is up to us to assess the odds they offer and accept or ignore them.

For those who take their thousands to a broker remember that with contracts at 10 quid a point, there is no room- absolutely none- for dithering.

Split

 

[henry766]

It is easy to blame all ones woes upon the broker / betting company you use , they arn't perfect , and they are atleast wanting to take your money from you ( especially with betting co), this is just way it is , have to accept it and accomodate this , and then try and make money allowing for this!!, atleast the things we can't change .( i guess i'm agreeing with you Splitilink), my advice to someone starting ,is to curb your enthusiasm , your probably arn't profitable in the long term , but you probably think you are.

 

[Splitlink]

It is easy to blame all ones woes upon the broker / betting company you use , they arn't perfect , and they are atleast wanting to take your money from you ( especially with betting co), this is just way it is , have to accept it and accomodate this , and then try and make money allowing for this!!, atleast the things we can't change .( i guess i'm agreeing with you Splitilink), my advice to someone starting ,is to curb your enthusiasm , your probably arn't profitable in the long term , but you probably think you are.

What's long term, Henry? I have more in my account than I I have had since April and I have never added to my account since 2002-3. Before Christmas I took some money out but, I admit, a few months ago I wish I hadn't because I had some bad trades. I never lost large amounts though, just dribbles and I have been adding steadily over the last few weeks. CPI, which I mentioned previously, is quoted at 512-514.5. I can't blame the quote if the trade goes wrong, can I? It has to be my fault..

Split

 

[Jack o'Clubs]

I have never understood the attitude of posters such as those who blame Fins for all their woes.

Split,

Glad that your method of trading with Finspreads is making money for you. For longer term (ie December contract) UK stock position trading I have no problem with them - their spreads are pretty good, and I use them for this.

But for day-trading forex they are abominable. I guess the point of this thread is to highlight this fact so that traders looking for a forex s/bet firm don't have to learn the hard way and lose a bundle before discovering other s/bet firms are better for this type of trading.

For my part, making the point about how poor they are for forex isn't a case of whingeing - I can and have taken my business elsewhere. But if posting about my experience saves someone else a few hundred quid by not having to repeat my mistakes, well, that's the point of this forum really, isn't it?

 

[henry766]

Split ,
if you havn't added to your account since 2002 then that is atleast close to long term , but it's still a fact that most traders arn't ptofitable , though I agree with jack of clubs , yes avoid as many pitfulls and problems as you can , but don't get hung up on them , the object is to make money , not straighten out dishonest and disorganised spread betting firms .

 

[Splitlink]

Split,

Glad that your method of trading with Finspreads is making money for you. For longer term (ie December contract) UK stock position trading I have no problem with them - their spreads are pretty good, and I use them for this.

But for day-trading forex they are abominable. I guess the point of this thread is to highlight this fact so that traders looking for a forex s/bet firm don't have to learn the hard way and lose a bundle before discovering other s/bet firms are better for this type of trading.

For my part, making the point about how poor they are for forex isn't a case of whingeing - I can and have taken my business elsewhere. But if posting about my experience saves someone else a few hundred quid by not having to repeat my mistakes, well, that's the point of this forum really, isn't it?

OK, Jack o'Clubs, Forex is something of which I have no experience.

Good trading

Split

 

[MarvinS]

FINSPREADS SOLD OUT TO THE ENEMY!!!!!!!


Recommended cash offer
by City Index (Holdings) Limited
for IFX Group PLC

Summary

* The Boards of City Index and IFX are pleased to announce that they have
reached agreement on the terms of a recommended cash offer to be made by
City Index for the whole of the issued and to be issued ordinary share
capital of IFX.

* The Offer will be 180 pence in cash for each IFX Share and values the
existing issued and to be issued ordinary share capital of IFX at
approximately #57.9 million. In addition, IFX Shareholders will be entitled
to receive and retain the Proposed Final Dividend of 1.2 pence per IFX
Share for the year ended 31 March 2006.

* The Offer represents a premium of:

- approximately 15 per cent. over the closing middle market price of 156
pence per IFX Share on 25 April 2006, the last Business Day prior to
the commencement of the Offer Period; and

- approximately 42 per cent. over the average closing middle market
price of approximately 127 pence per IFX Share for the three month
period prior to the commencement of the Offer Period.

 

[fxwinner22]

you know marvin, you really are a pillock.

you are first to jump in and slag another company off but you wont answer questions about your own bucket shop worldspreads.

very unprofessional.

 

[Jbat001]

lol!