Feeling ripped off by IG Index

Guess what!

When I opened my position I did it gradually over an hour by opening 6 smaller positions. I like to do this because I can then set different stop losses and limits on each and mix my risk.

I have just tried to close one of the positions (a sixth of my total position) and the system says it is too big for the market and cannot close it!!

Yesterday they all opened ok without any issue!

Again I've never had that with CMC or City.

Do IG just load everything in their favour? What a joke!
 
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Wilwak....

I think I have some good news for you.


If you refer back to your original post you will read the following in the letter you received from IG Index;

We are writing to you to inform you of an adjustment made to your JUN09 Invesco UK Property Income Tst position. Invesco UK Property Income Tst will probably not be paying the dividend expected by our equity support department.

Therefore all open spread bets will be rebooked to amend your opening level by 3.038 points. At the same time we will amend the levels of our futures contracts by 3.038 points. This will mean no profit and loss difference to your positions.


You will note that they use the words “probably not be paying the dividend expected”.

This is important – you will see why shortly.

The firm moves on to quote section 28 from the Customer Agreement. They state the following;

28. Adjustments and takeovers

(1) If any Financial Index becomes subject to possible adjustment as the result of any of the events set out in Term 28(2) below (a "Corporate Event") affecting a related financial instrument, we will determine the appropriate adjustment, if any, to be made to the size and/or value and/or number of the related Bet(s) (and/or to the level of any Order) to account for the diluting or concentrating effect necessary to preserve the economic equivalent of the rights and obligations of the parties in relation to that Bet immediately prior to that Corporate Event, to be effective from the date determined by us.

(2) The events to which Term 28(1) refers are the declaration by the issuer of a financial instrument (or, if the financial instrument is itself a derivative, the issuer of the security underlying that instrument) of the terms of any of the following:

(5) In the event that there is declared or paid in respect of any financial instrument a special dividend or a dividend that is unusually large or payable by reference to an ex-dividend date that is unusually early or late (in each case, having regard to dividend payments in previous years in respect of that same financial instrument), we may make an appropriate adjustment (including a retrospective adjustment) to the Opening Level and/or the Stake of a Bet that relates to that financial instrument.


The firm are therefore implying that they can alter your entry level because they are now considering that the dividend is not going to be paid. However, this is pure conjecture on their part since there does not appear to be such an announcement from Invesco themselves.

Read Term 28 of the Customer Agreement again!

In order to invoke their implied right to amend your bet level there has to be a ‘Corporate Event’ as specified in Term 28(2). Term 28(2) which sets out that such a ‘Corporate Event’ refers to (and I quote);

A “declaration by the issuer of a financial instrument” (ie Invesco)

So far as I can see there has been no such declaration by Invesco. I’ve checked their RNS logs and I cannot find that they have made such a statement. I therefore conclude, based on the lack of RNS and based on IG Index’s own wording in their letters to you (their use of the words ‘probably’), that the firm cannot invoke Term 28 since they cannot satisfy the relevant criteria required. In their letter to you they say that they are invoking their rights under Term 28 and move on to quote Term 28(2) – they don’t however check that Term 28(2) is being correctly satisfied. If there is no such news declaration from Invesco then the firm would appear to have breached their contract with you.


My advice would be to close the bet at the prevailing price and then argue the toss about getting the adjustment reversed. You would appear to have a win / win situation since they are going to have to reverse the price adjustment since they don’t appear to be able to satisfy the conditions of their own Customer Agreement. You would then pocket the difference between today’s price and the price which you opened at.

Happy days

Steve.

Many thanks Steve. You very much echo my thoughts.

I have already put it to IG that just because some spotty analyst in their back office gets a 'feeling' do they have any right to change their price? There has been no announcement by the company. They still didn't budge.

I'm still battling!
 
Many thanks Steve. You very much echo my thoughts.

I have already put it to IG that just because some spotty analyst in their back office gets a 'feeling' do they have any right to change their price? There has been no announcement by the company. They still didn't budge.

I'm still battling!

They have no choice. Ask to speak to the compliance officer. Ask him to specify exactly which Term or Condition they are exercising. If the compliance officer offers Term 28 then ask him to specify, and indeed send you, the news announcement which satisfies Term 28(2). If they cannot meet Term 28(2) then they cannot exercise their right to adjust your bet. Furthermore, if they quote Terms in an official letter to you they must be able to demostrate that they are meeting their obligations.

If you lay your arguement out in such a manner they will have to back down.

Steve.
 
Indeed given time all SB traders will come across , unfair business practise's by these firms.

But in relation to this post, IG acceppted the bet then changed its mind.
If the client wanted to say ok nothing done, put my account back to the levele it was Im sure they woulds oblige.
 
I've just been thinking about my general dealing going forward ....

How are we as punters supposed to know what the SB company has 'factored in' and what they haven't when they quote a price?

How are we supposed to know how much dividend they're expecting?

Surely they can just screw us all over by just adjusting prices and saying the dividend declared is bigger or smaller 'than we expected'.

Surely to be able to adjust prices retrospectively they need to provide complete transparency.

How was I supposed to know how much dividend they'd estimated in the price between now and June 09? All I can do is use my judgement to whether that price looks a fair 'bet'.

After all - this is BETTING. Not investing.
 
Indeed given time all SB traders will come across , unfair business practise's by these firms.

But in relation to this post, IG acceppted the bet then changed its mind.
If the client wanted to say ok nothing done, put my account back to the levele it was Im sure they woulds oblige.

That's what I offered and they said 'no'.

I said to them 'ok, you made a mistake - just cancel the transactions'

They declined.
 
That is not fair practise.
Naughty IG
But like i said earlyer, SB firms do manipulate there quotes/prices to there beniffit and not yours.
Are you still giving these firms your hard earned ?

If i were you close your account with them as its clear they dont want your business.
 
I've just funded my new IG Index account a few days ago. This doesn't inspire confidence.
 
I've just been thinking about my general dealing going forward ....

How are we as punters supposed to know what the SB company has 'factored in' and what they haven't when they quote a price?

How are we supposed to know how much dividend they're expecting?

Surely they can just screw us all over by just adjusting prices and saying the dividend declared is bigger or smaller 'than we expected'.

Surely to be able to adjust prices retrospectively they need to provide complete transparency.

How was I supposed to know how much dividend they'd estimated in the price between now and June 09? All I can do is use my judgement to whether that price looks a fair 'bet'.

After all - this is BETTING. Not investing.

Thats exactly the point - Once they enter the bet it is binding on them and you. Stocks splits I can understand because there is clarity. Dividends are not so. If company xyz does badly it may cut its dividend - thats life.

When you enter these longer bets you are betting on the determination date - if there's a 50% chance that they may cut the dividend before that date then the should factor 50% off the dividend calculation in the quoted price. This is just plain lazy on their part. They want to have the best of both worlds quoting all these fancy markets to increase business whilst paying less attention to each individual market knowing that they've inserted little T&C's in their Customer Agreement which allows them to retrospectively re-price deals which they've already entered.

I'd bloody love it if a case like this came to court (did I sound like Kevin Keegan there?). These firms live in their own little world where they bully customers.

Steve.
 
With all the mistreating of custermers and malpractise with obstruction to its custermers from doing business Spread betting Firms will have a lot to answer for .

I will no go into how Index prices are calculated by some.

Why not take them to court ?

Put in a small claim in county court where costs are low, but can not be above 1000 and see how things develop.

Im sure any level minded mansturate will see through what they do .


But then again, you do not have to be a custermer do you ?????
 
Once (if!!) I get these Invesco deals closed I'll never use them again.

All I can do is take my custom elsewhere and share my experience in places like this.

I specialise in SEO so if they don't act professionally with me then rest assured they'll be some interesting stuff appearing near the top of the search results for "IG Index" soon!

Like I say. If they just admit it was a mistake, say sorry and cancelled the positions then I'm a reasonable bloke and would just walk away.

From their actions so far I'd guess they're hard up for cash and can't afford to make a goodwill gesture. I'm sure a larger organisation with a reputation to protect would have acted to be 'fair' by now.

It's all very smelly. I can't even close my positions. (See my post above)

I placed a limit on all of them this morning which was exceeded during the day but they didn't close???? Market Size again I guess.
 
infect?

Please dont infect another thread with your nonsense!

Thanks,
Steve.
Nothing to do with infecting.
Read all tomtom,s posts nothing but putting down sb firms constantly. as ive stated many times a good trader uses all forms of broker in his arsenal to compliment his or her trading strategies. but all mr tomtom can do is scare off newbies by slating sb all the time. So whos doing the infecting Steve?
 
Hey this is nothing new... few days ago I posted a similar message on this website regarding what they did to my RBS position.

Exactly the same thing!!

Theiving B**tards!!!
 
Sorry guys, I didn't mean to start a squabble. :confused:

I just asked if I'd been treated fairly and I think the answers have all been very useful - thank you all.

In conclusion I think I've been caught out by something I didn't know could happen.

Technically IG have probably acted outside their T&Cs strictly speaking. But if there had been a formal company announcement then I'd have suffered the same fate - something I didn't know could happen! Certainly a big lesson to me. I'll never view quoted prices by a SB firm the same way again!!

Anyway the good news is that the BoE really helped me out today. They slashed interest rates and property shares rallied.

I set automated sell orders on my positions to close me out at near break even and 4 out of the 6 positions have done so. I'm now resting a lot easier..... but on a small loss. :-(

Hopefully the other two will close tomorrow and I'll be all square and have learnt a huge lesson.

Thanks again for all your help. I'm delighted to have found this fabulous forum and I'll certainly be doing some reading over the coming weeks. I have a lot to learn obviously! :eek:
 
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This stock has been in a very strong downtrend since last summer.

Anyone who takes the trouble to do research would have discovered, amongst many many other things, that the historic dividend yield on this company is about 80+%.

Therefore, I cannot believe it is reasonable for anyone to assume that a dividend will be paid at the same historic rate, let alone a half, a quarter.
 
Technically IG have probably acted outside their T&Cs strictly speaking.

They certainly appear to have done. You should write to them and formally point out that the firm have made no such announcement and therefore specify that you expect the 'adjustment' to be reversed since they had no right, as specified under the contract, to make the adjustment in the first place.

Make sure that you close you long positions first.

You'll make a fat profit because IG are perfectly entitled to make their price where they want to. If they want to now factor in the rumour of a non dividend payment then they are perfectly entitled to do that - this will of course boost the price of the forward month contracts. They cannot however make this 'adjustment' to clients positions becauce they cannot satisfy their own T&C which allows them to exercise their right to make such an adjustment. It's not a case of 'not technically being able to do it', it's case where they simply CANNOT do it, there is no 'technicality' about it, it's plain English and it's straight forward.

If you point this out to them and they don't reverse the 'adjustment' straight away they'd be bullying their client.

Let us know how you get on.

Steve.
 
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