Feedback is appreciated - simplifying automated trading

Purple Brain

Experienced member
1,613 179
I assumed posting in the Forums / Commercial / Trading Software / would have been sufficient.
The sign up procedure is sufficiently specific to enable everyone to register in an appropriate fashion without any assumptions being necessary.
 

Magick93

Junior member
13 0
As best as I can tell from the fairly poorly designed website is that you will be buying a product which will allow you to automate your own strategies. It's a pity Mikael/Anton/Thomas – whichever of them is Magick93 – didn’t spell out a bit more about the proposed product in the first post.

Regardless of their credentials – not much of which is associated with trading per se - anyone stupid enough to upload their strategies or provide them to a 3rd party where (presumably) performance of those strategies can be monitored and assessed (and re-utilised) deserves to pay for the privilege such stupidity provides.


We have been approached by a hedge fund to assist in recruiting traders. These are serious traders with serious money. And they recognize that ia strategy is not nearly as valuable as the person behind it. And as such are more interested in working with a trader and their strategy. Recruiting traders is NOT the goal of Magick.

Having said that, we have no intention of stealing your ideas. Please see if https://www.magick.nu/privacy-policy/
Our intention is to help your realize your ideas.


We have no commercial agreement with brokers, we do not take a cut of your profits, or the 'flow'.

Most FX vendors will either be IBs, taking a portion of the spread, or taking a commission. This is a common business model in Social Trading. This leads to vendors encouraging trading to increase flow / commission, and not leading to profitable traders. Its 'churn and burn'.

Therefore we want to assist traders with advanced risk management, and ease of strategy creation.

From my experience in the industry, there is a lot of distrust towards brokers, social trading, trading platforms and even other traders. We are trying to address this by being broker neutral, by ensure our system is stable and secure and by providing a transparent business model. We also have concerns about our IP being stolen if we were to make our software downloadable. We opted for a cloud based platform as this also provides users with a VPS like service.
 
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Magick93

Junior member
13 0
You are a vendor as PB points out. You're not registered as one, which doesn't bode well if you are going for transparency.

The first paragraph of your post has left me confused. So you are looking to help a hedge fund, but you care about the trader rather than the system? That's weird, because for automation, it's the system that counts, obviously. Something is not sounding right.

I think PB has pointed out enough flaws in this thing already. A privacy policy is pretty meaningless. I've encountered various policies from companies, and when push comes to shove, a policy is more of a guideline that they may or may not stick to. It doesn't stop you from stealing trader's systems.

But even if we do accept the policy, what is Amakitu Aps? Also who are you affilliated with? Your prvacy policy, for all it's worth (nothing) allows you to share info with any affiliated party - which could be anyone. I have a bad feeling that you are not working on the linkedin issue (because there's very little to work on), and that you are in fact collecting details, and hoping to steal strategies.

(n)

We are working on simplifying the form right now.

As mentioned, you dont have to use linkedIn, you can contact me via this forum, or though our website contact form.

Amakitu Aps is the legal entity that owners Magick.

I did not say we looking to help a hedge fund - I said we had been approached by a hedge fund.

When I signed up on this forum I was not a vendor. I am not currently vending anything - but am seeking advice on a forthcoming product.

If you are paranoid that your strategy is going to be stolen, then lets talk - perhaps we can find a solution. As an experienced trader, I'm sure you are aware that every broker and trading platform could deduce your strategy - if that was their focus. VPS services may secretly be monitoring your performance so they can steal you brilliant ideas. Metatrader could be an elaborate strategy harvester cloaked as a automated trading platform. Having meet several people who work at Metaquotes, I feel very confident that they are NOT in the business of stealing trading strategies. Those who abuse trust do not last long in this industry.

I realize you have a frightfully mistrusting nature, so I am not going to try to convince you otherwise - however we are trying very hard to make tools to help your improve your trading. You could, for instance, talk with our developers and inquire about any nefarious plans for stealing your brilliant ideas. You are welcome to discuss with us about our technology, our goals, our motivations. We are very open to hearing your concerns.

And to return your first point, most traders, even those who automate their strategies, continue to refine them. The real value in a strategy comes from ones analysis. Markets change. And so does ones strategy. The point I was trying to make was hedge funds tend to seek not an EA, but a skilled trader. A skilled trader can still have their ideas automated, but it is the ideas that are of value to the hedge fund.
 

Shakone

Senior member
2,458 665
We are working on simplifying the form right now.

As mentioned, you dont have to use linkedIn, you can contact me via this forum, or though our website contact form.

Amakitu Aps is the legal entity that owners Magick.

I did not say we looking to help a hedge fund - I said we had been approached by a hedge fund.

When I signed up on this forum I was not a vendor. I am not currently vending anything - but am seeking advice on a forthcoming product.

If you are paranoid that your strategy is going to be stolen, then lets talk - perhaps we can find a solution. As an experienced trader, I'm sure you are aware that every broker and trading platform could deduce your strategy - if that was their focus. VPS services may secretly be monitoring your performance so they can steal you brilliant ideas. Metatrader could be an elaborate strategy harvester cloaked as a automated trading platform. Having meet several people who work at Metaquotes, I feel very confident that they are NOT in the business of stealing trading strategies. Those who abuse trust do not last long in this industry.

I realize you have a frightfully mistrusting nature, so I am not going to try to convince you otherwise - however we are trying very hard to make tools to help your improve your trading. You could, for instance, talk with our developers and inquire about any nefarious plans for stealing your brilliant ideas. You are welcome to discuss with us about our technology, our goals, our motivations. We are very open to hearing your concerns.

And to return your first point, most traders, even those who automate their strategies, continue to refine them. The real value in a strategy comes from ones analysis. Markets change. And so does ones strategy. The point I was trying to make was hedge funds tend to seek not an EA, but a skilled trader. A skilled trader can still have their ideas automated, but it is the ideas that are of value to the hedge fund.

You have claimed that when you signed up here you were not a vendor. Yet here you are selling something called Magick, with a username called Magick. :LOL:

There are only so many lies I can take in one post Magick, and yours is way over the limit.

In short, no thanks.
 

Magick93

Junior member
13 0
You have claimed that when you signed up here you were not a vendor. Yet here you are selling something called Magick, with a username called Magick. :LOL:

There are only so many lies I can take in one post Magick, and yours is way over the limit.

In short, no thanks.

I co-founded, and named the company. The company was founded in January of this year. Magick is a moniker that I have used for sometime.

http://www.proff.dk/firma/amakitu-aps/københavn-s/webbureauer/15733647-1/

And, FYI - http://forexmagnates.com/ex-saxo-mikael-breinholst-and-anton-hughes-launching-magick/
 
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Shakone

Senior member
2,458 665
I co-founded, and named the company. The company was founded in January of this year. Magick is a moniker that I have used for sometime.

http://www.proff.dk/firma/amakitu-aps/københavn-s/webbureauer/15733647-1/

And, FYI - http://forexmagnates.com/ex-saxo-mikael-breinholst-and-anton-hughes-launching-magick/

Still have no idea what you're offering in terms of 'advanced risk management' or even what is different from metatrader in terms of strategy development, but anyway, good luck.
 

Magick93

Junior member
13 0
Still have no idea what you're offering in terms of 'advanced risk management' or even what is different from metatrader in terms of strategy development, but anyway, good luck.

Thanks :)

And if you would like to find out please talk to us.

While 'honest' is word too often thrown around, we honestly would like to talk, so can build tools and features that will benefit you.
 
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Purple Brain

Experienced member
1,613 179
The real clincher for me is that anyone with a profitable strategy is not going to need to automate it.

You guys (Magick) are technologists - not traders. Which is why you think you're onto a winner. You'll focus on those that don't have profitable strategies - but think they do. And remove their capital even quicker.

I guess I should applaud your realisation that you won't get rich from trading - but you might form those that think they will.
 

Magick93

Junior member
13 0
The real clincher for me is that anyone with a profitable strategy is not going to need to automate it.

You guys (Magick) are technologists - not traders. Which is why you think you're onto a winner. You'll focus on those that don't have profitable strategies - but think they do. And remove their capital even quicker.

I guess I should applaud your realisation that you won't get rich from trading - but you might form those that think they will.

Interestingly, most retail/private traders lose money. FXCM will often recommend taking opposite positions to the retail cluster. Why is that? Well there is probably many reasons. And one reason we see is there is a significant technological gap between the instituional and retail trader. We seeking to make some of the technology that the institutional investors use accessible to the retail investor.

And even if you have a profitable strategy, here are some reasons to automate it -this is an article I wrote some time ago - http://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/7-reasons-to-consider-or-not-automated-trading-1307377116
 

Purple Brain

Experienced member
1,613 179
The majority of retail traders lose money because their losing trades lose them more than their winning trades win them.

Automating their faulty logic will simply help them lose it more quickly. Especially when you add in the fees they will need to pay you for your services.

The reasons brokers make money from their clients has little to nothing to do with trading.

If you really want to give retail traders the same benefits and advantages of a brokerage - set up a co-operative brokerage where traders can invest in providing liquidity to other retail traders and be rewarded pro rata for their investment.
 

Magick93

Junior member
13 0
The majority of retail traders lose money because their losing trades lose them more than their winning trades win them.

Automating their faulty logic will simply help them lose it more quickly. Especially when you add in the fees they will need to pay you for your services.

The reasons brokers make money from their clients has little to nothing to do with trading.

If you really want to give retail traders the same benefits and advantages of a brokerage - set up a co-operative brokerage where traders can invest in providing liquidity to other retail traders and be rewarded pro rata for their investment.

"The majority of retail traders lose money because their losing trades lose them more than their winning trades win them." Obviously. That doesnt event need to be stated. But, the essence is bad money management. A good trader has a strategy, which included money management. A great trader actually uses their strategy.

Your statement "The reasons brokers make money from their clients has little to nothing to do with trading." make absolutely no sense. Care to clarify?

Please assume I have never worked for a broker, and enlighten me as to how brokers make money.

And I never said I wanted to give retail traders the same advantages as a brokerage. I think you are confusing brokers with institutional traders.
 
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Purple Brain

Experienced member
1,613 179
"The majority of retail traders lose money because their losing trades lose them more than their winning trades win them." Obviously. That doesnt event need to be stated.
Actually, it does. When the data supporting that point was posted recently it came as something of a surprise to many.

But, the essence is bad money management. A good trader has a strategy, which included money management. A great trader actually uses their strategy.
None of which are provided by your product. Each trader has to bring those to the party themselves.

Your statement "The reasons brokers make money from their clients has little to nothing to do with trading." make absolutely no sense. Care to clarify?
You want me to clarify why that statement makes no sense or you want me to clarify it so that it makes sense for you? I’ll take a guess the latter as nobody else seems to have had a problem understanding it. Brokers don’t make money trading, but by facilitating trading for their clients.

Please assume I have never worked for a broker, and enlighten me as to how brokers make money.
Rather than having me jump through hoops and make assumptions about who you might or might not be, perhaps you'd care to identify yourself? Certainly none of the public trio of Magick partners has direct or particularly relevant institutional expertise. If you genuinely don’t know how brokers make money then try google. Alternatively, tone down the arrogant and patronising manner and ask again nicely.

Or rather, don’t bother. The way you have handled yourself in this thread and the tone and content of your responses has been unhelpful and bordering on aggressive. We’re still really none the wiser on what you’re offering - even after looking at your website. All I am doing by engaging with you is keeping your company in the upper echelon of search results. This is my last post on this thread and this topic.
 

Magick93

Junior member
13 0
Actually, it does. When the data supporting that point was posted recently it came as something of a surprise to many.

None of which are provided by your product. Each trader has to bring those to the party themselves.

You want me to clarify why that statement makes no sense or you want me to clarify it so that it makes sense for you? I’ll take a guess the latter as nobody else seems to have had a problem understanding it. Brokers don’t make money trading, but by facilitating trading for their clients.

Rather than having me jump through hoops and make assumptions about who you might or might not be, perhaps you'd care to identify yourself? Certainly none of the public trio of Magick partners has direct or particularly relevant institutional expertise. If you genuinely don’t know how brokers make money then try google. Alternatively, tone down the arrogant and patronising manner and ask again nicely.

Or rather, don’t bother. The way you have handled yourself in this thread and the tone and content of your responses has been unhelpful and bordering on aggressive. We’re still really none the wiser on what you’re offering - even after looking at your website. All I am doing by engaging with you is keeping your company in the upper echelon of search results. This is my last post on this thread and this topic.


Hi Purple Brain

Thanks for your feedback about our website - and I agree, we are not making our product clear. However we are still in the phase of actively seeking advice on from traders on the feature set.

Regarding the identities of the founders, I would have though our website would have made it very clear - that we do have industry experience, and a diverse range of experience. Plus, you will find links in this thread to a industry press release and articles.

And thanks for clarify. Yes, youre right. Brokers primarily make money from facility trading services. And if a trader is b-booked, brokers can profit on that too.
 
 
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