ETX leading the way around the ESMA ruling.

tomorton

Legendary member
8,144 1,227
The margin in the FTSE trade they give is £200 on a price of 7200, so that's 1:36. At 1:30 as per ESMA SB's, you'd have to stand more, but only £240, so you'd still need a pretty well capitalised account.

Plus I hate the name.

Spreads are an issue but aiming to run trades long-term (5-25 days), my SL's are so far off price that overnight volatility never hits them.
 

Synonym

Active member
105 2
The margin in the FTSE trade they give is £200 on a price of 7200, so that's 1:36. At 1:30 as per ESMA SB's, you'd have to stand more, but only £240, so you'd still need a pretty well capitalised account.

Plus I hate the name.

Spreads are an issue but aiming to run trades long-term (5-25 days), my SL's are so far off price that overnight volatility never hits them.

Haha! Yes I feel similar about the name too. Ah right, so the leverage is still not what it used to be. Can't decide which route i prefer that or buying options (not betting on them).

It must be some of the markets i've traded in the past, you'd go from closing the night before with a £350 open profit on a position to seeing a £250 loss just before open, then after 5 mins back up to the level it closed at the night prior.
 

Synonym

Active member
105 2
This is making my brain hurt. Will old-style SB be back after Brexit?!

We can only hope. But i think it'd take a change in the current cabinet to do that. There's as little common sense ( or desire to see the world from the perspective of the people not the govt.) in our current cabinet as there is in the EU.
 

tomorton

Legendary member
8,144 1,227
Regulations never (almost) get loosened. Its time to adapt.

For some that will mean exiting trading: but given the low interest rates offered on savings and other forms of investment this is not the worst time in history to be forced to increase capital in a trading account. Let's be frank, most of those guys would have been wiping out their accounts within a year anyway.

Long as you don't increase your capital risk if you have to increase your capital to adapt to ESMA leverage, what harm?
 

Synonym

Active member
105 2
Regulations never (almost) get loosened. Its time to adapt.

For some that will mean exiting trading: but given the low interest rates offered on savings and other forms of investment this is not the worst time in history to be forced to increase capital in a trading account. Let's be frank, most of those guys would have been wiping out their accounts within a year anyway.

Long as you don't increase your capital risk if you have to increase your capital to adapt to ESMA leverage, what harm?

Agree Tom re regs. As you say, rarely loosened.

I disagree re margin. Rather than a across the board change in margin, why not look at those who have been trading profitably or have not blown up/ even had a margin call. If they've been doing that over an extended period of time, why suddenly change what they can do and force them into riskier markets/overseas providers with less protection..which is where many who can trade and many who can't are going. Makes no sense to me.

It's like the pattern day trading rules in the US. If you are just managing swing trades on stocks and happen to be stopped out on the day you enter your trade, even thought you are managing your risk well, you are penalised by having it classed as a day trade.
 

tomorton

Legendary member
8,144 1,227
Agree Tom re regs. As you say, rarely loosened.

I disagree re margin. Rather than a across the board change in margin, why not look at those who have been trading profitably or have not blown up/ even had a margin call. If they've been doing that over an extended period of time, why suddenly change what they can do and force them into riskier markets/overseas providers with less protection..which is where many who can trade and many who can't are going. Makes no sense to me.

It's like the pattern day trading rules in the US. If you are just managing swing trades on stocks and happen to be stopped out on the day you enter your trade, even thought you are managing your risk well, you are penalised by having it classed as a day trade.


Yes, ESMA could easily have used a less sledge hammer-like approach so that experienced traders who haven't blown up, no matter how small, got a free pass.

But it depends on what you think ESMA's objectives are..... protect uninfluential fools from losing their money on ESMA's turf, or drive people to buy investment products from the big players and stop managing their own investments? I go for the latter.
 

Synonym

Active member
105 2
Yes, ESMA could easily have used a less sledge hammer-like approach so that experienced traders who haven't blown up, no matter how small, got a free pass.

But it depends on what you think ESMA's objectives are..... protect uninfluential fools from losing their money on ESMA's turf, or drive people to buy investment products from the big players and stop managing their own investments? I go for the latter.

We think very alike Tom. I agree entirely. It's like how the Ave Joe is stopped from investing/trading in many different private / venture cap enterprises and other investments/instruments, as they are deemed far too risky for us mere mortals...but online gambling and the lottery - well just go for it Joe!
 

tomorton

Legendary member
8,144 1,227
Doubtless the ESMA report on the first 3 months of the new regulations is already being written and all they need do is fill in the blanks with the positive statistics - they will have already set up protocols with the key big players to collect these (but not the negative ones).

So it might say something like -
X% reduction in total of private retail trader accounts in SB, forex and CFD's
X% reduction in complaints re forex brokers to national regulators in X out of Y ESMA national jurisdictions
X% increase in new accounts / enquiries to large reputable finance houses
loss of X forex brokers, SB, BO and CFD firms who chose to exit the EU market

Any numbers, no matter how small, at X will be counted as success indicators.
 

Synonym

Active member
105 2
Doubtless the ESMA report on the first 3 months of the new regulations is already being written and all they need do is fill in the blanks with the positive statistics - they will have already set up protocols with the key big players to collect these (but not the negative ones).

So it might say something like -
X% reduction in total of private retail trader accounts in SB, forex and CFD's
X% reduction in complaints re forex brokers to national regulators in X out of Y ESMA national jurisdictions
X% increase in new accounts / enquiries to large reputable finance houses
loss of X forex brokers, SB, BO and CFD firms who chose to exit the EU market

Any numbers, no matter how small, at X will be counted as success indicators.

Bang on. So true and so sad.
 

Your User Name

Junior member
25 0
One of the perennial spreadbet questions was why income wasn't taxed, to which the answer was that the gov still exacted its cut from the SB providers' profits. If the rule changes stay I think 11 Downing St will be suffering, which might be a good reason for a U-turn. (Not on binaries, though!)
 

Splitlink

Legendary member
10,850 1,233
One of the perennial spreadbet questions was why income wasn't taxed, to which the answer was that the gov still exacted its cut from the SB providers' profits. If the rule changes stay I think 11 Downing St will be suffering, which might be a good reason for a U-turn. (Not on binaries, though!)

I thought that the reason was that losses could be written off against profits. The SB providers are considered professionals, so they would be taxed , anyway.

I think that we are labelled as gamblers, whether we like it or not. Gvt. would have to tax horses, casinos, football, lotteries if they taxed us.

Still, don't your breath. It might get around to doing just that! In Spain, there is a 20% tax on the lottery--the rest of gambling I don't know about.
 
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Your User Name

Junior member
25 0
No tax on SB client profits because it is (or was) gambling, but providers have to pay tax on the money the SB-er has given away.
Funny that Stuart Wheeler, who invented SB and donated lots ot money to the Cons party, will see part of IG's zillions eke away.
 

jkane

Active member
128 1
Where did you you find the margin req Tom? I can't find that. No, you cant adjust the SL once set, but i find given the way the spreads blast wide open during the before hours or at the open you can't afford to have and SL sat in the market. Have you not found the same? Perhaps it's just the markets i'm trading.

Its terrible

stay away from spread betting options

lol
 

Synonym

Active member
105 2
Its terrible

stay away from spread betting options

lol

Thanks JKane. I can't agree more. I've spread bet for a long time and the tactics i used to have to put in place to manage the ridiculous spreads where crazy. I shudder to think what they would be like on options. I've opened an options account in the US. A much better way to go.

Cheers
Syn
 
 
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