Doing well in paper trading. Bad in actual trading...

sphong

Newbie
7 0
Doing well in paper trading. Bad in actual trading...

In paper trading, generally, I'm pretty satisfied
-> Last night, I put a buy order when stock spikes for today's DE stock (up 10%).

In the actual trading, although I saw the Earning number before stock spiked, for some reason, I was hesitant to make an order fast enough...

Don't know what I should do to improve....
anyone has similar experiences ?


I think one of my problems is not willing to lose money, and not risking enough if things look good.
 

tomorton

Legendary member
7,231 963
Why not try an extended time frame first to sharpen your decision-making and risk management skills. Trade off the dailies for a bit.

Of course, you're listening to what happened, which is good. Because, maybe on an unconscious level, your mind was telling you something important here. When trading on news in the moment, its hard to manage risk, when prices are likely to spike violently. And potentially a spike up can reverse and become a spike down inside a minute. Many times a price will fall on good news, rise on bad.

Do you really have to day-trade? And if you do have to, do you have to be a news day-trader?
 

forker

Senior member
2,688 499
Could be your association with money and being wrong will result in losing. It's a common problem and something you need to fix else you will end up sabotaging yourself. I can't tell you something and tomorrow your problem is solved. This is something you will need to solve. It just happens that this very week I seen a video that explains it very well and I thought would help people struggling with this problem. I'll find it and post it.
 

sphong

Newbie
7 0
Why not try an extended time frame first to sharpen your decision-making and risk management skills. Trade off the dailies for a bit.

Of course, you're listening to what happened, which is good. Because, maybe on an unconscious level, your mind was telling you something important here. When trading on news in the moment, its hard to manage risk, when prices are likely to spike violently. And potentially a spike up can reverse and become a spike down inside a minute. Many times a price will fall on good news, rise on bad.

Do you really have to day-trade? And if you do have to, do you have to be a news day-trader?
I'd like to at least do swing-trade as long-term investment looks risky to me as I'm not very experienced and knowledgeable in the market yet. (I'd like to study as much as I can though...)

You are right that I don't have to be a news day-trader, but I feel that good news-driven trade has much higher probability to earn profits. but eventually, I want to be real good in chart reading as well as having a good knowledage of the market (say relationship between oil, gold, interest rate, .P/E, PEG, ......).

I would appreciate it if you could point to any helpful materials for extending beyond news day-trader.
 

sphong

Newbie
7 0
Could be your association with money and being wrong will result in losing. It's a common problem and something you need to fix else you will end up sabotaging yourself. I can't tell you something and tomorrow your problem is solved. This is something you will need to solve. It just happens that this very week I seen a video that explains it very well and I thought would help people struggling with this problem. I'll find it and post it.
Thanks for the link. I believe my problem should be very common.
I appreciate it. If you could suggest any other good materials (even if they are basic to you), that will be great.
 

forker

Senior member
2,688 499
Thanks for the link. I believe my problem should be very common.
I appreciate it. If you could suggest any other good materials (even if they are basic to you), that will be great.
Mark Douglas

You might find one of his dvd sets (of a few series he did release) on this subject for cheap on ebay. I have a set and it's good material but still requires experience to normalise it internally.

This is the set I have

Mark Douglas – How To Think Like A Professional Trader
 
Last edited:

gerryg

Established member
900 6
Doing well in paper trading. Bad in actual trading...

In paper trading, generally, I'm pretty satisfied
-> Last night, I put a buy order when stock spikes for today's DE stock (up 10%).

In the actual trading, although I saw the Earning number before stock spiked, for some reason, I was hesitant to make an order fast enough...

Don't know what I should do to improve....
anyone has similar experiences ?


I think one of my problems is not willing to lose money, and not risking enough if things look good.

Experience and constant training. This is only what can help you. And always keep track of your performance, wins and losses to make timely analysis and prevent same mistakes.
 

timsk

Legendary member
6,938 1,812
Found it. Many of the points apply to this problem

Anton Kreil is one of those people I like and admire on the one hand and want to cave his head in with a base ball bat on the other. For me, there's a touch of Peers Morgan about him. With one notable exception, the core points he makes in the video make a lot of sense, but it's nauseating watching him get on and off transatlantic flights and downing drinks in yet another hotel bar. If the whole thing was edited down to half an hour tops - it would be ten times better.

The point I disagree with him on are his comments about assets and liabilities, specifically his argument in favour of renting rather than buying. He's way off track on that one. There's no way I'd have the financial security I enjoy today and own my own home if I'd followed that advice. The only caveat being that I'd recommend a repayment mortgage in preference to an interest only one and, additionally, to save hard to pay off chunks of the borrowed capital at the earliest opportunity. My wife and I did this in the 90s and cleared a 25 year mortgage in 5 just years.
Tim.
 

forker

Senior member
2,688 499
Anton Kreil is one of those people I like and admire on the one hand and want to cave his head in with a base ball bat on the other. For me, there's a touch of Peers Morgan about him. With one notable exception, the core points he makes in the video make a lot of sense, but it's nauseating watching him get on and off transatlantic flights and downing drinks in yet another hotel bar. If the whole thing was edited down to half an hour tops - it would be ten times better.

The point I disagree with him on are his comments about assets and liabilities, specifically his argument in favour of renting rather than buying. He's way off track on that one. There's no way I'd have the financial security I enjoy today and own my own home if I'd followed that advice. The only caveat being that I'd recommend a repayment mortgage in preference to an interest only one and, additionally, to save hard to pay off chunks of the borrowed capital at the earliest opportunity. My wife and I did this in the 90s and cleared a 25 year mortgage in 5 just years.
Tim.
He does have an arrogance for sure but I don't know many traders that don't (it might be a personality trait)

Regarding the mortgage. His reference to it is earning a heck of a lot more than the average Joe. I tried to do it his way and even earning 700 a day I wasn't able to keep up pace with housing appreciation. I estimate you would need to be earning over a grand a day to be able to do it with house prices these days.
 

dbphoenix

Legendary member
6,931 1,233
The point I disagree with him on are his comments about assets and liabilities, specifically his argument in favour of renting rather than buying. He's way off track on that one. There's no way I'd have the financial security I enjoy today and own my own home if I'd followed that advice. The only caveat being that I'd recommend a repayment mortgage in preference to an interest only one and, additionally, to save hard to pay off chunks of the borrowed capital at the earliest opportunity. My wife and I did this in the 90s and cleared a 25 year mortgage in 5 just years.
Tim.
It's not much different from the market. If one buys at the right time, the home, like a trading instrument, becomes an asset. If one doesn't, it becomes a liability. Anyone who's paid attention over the past ten years understands that. There is also the matter of personal "style". One who is interested in homesteading has no interest in an apartment. One who is handy with tools and enjoys maintaining his car, home, whatever, will have a different perspective than one who doesn't know the difference between a screwdriver and a hammer and doesn't care. There is also the matter of control and how one feels about relinquishing that control vs reserving that privilege for himself, e.g., choosing one's own mechanic or plumber or electrician and negotiating one's own deals vs leaving it with someone who has his own interests at heart.

Home ownership is not for everyone. But then neither is renting.
 
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timsk

Legendary member
6,938 1,812
It's not much different from the market. If one buys at the right time, the home, like a trading instrument, becomes an asset. If one doesn't, it becomes a liability. Anyone who's paid attention over the past ten years understands that.
Hi dbp,
I don't know whether or not you watched the video, but this is not the way Anton Kreil views it. As I understand it, his argument is that as a matter of principle, renting is always preferable to buying, until such time as one has accumulated sufficient capital to buy one's house outright. As forker makes clear in his last post, this would have been extremely difficult to do over the last 20 years or so, because the gap between earnings and house prices has widened exponentially. So, as you say in the piece I've quoted, buying at the right time (with a mortgage), can still be an asset and not the liability that Anton Kreil suggests. Needless to say, his comments about risk apply here, i.e. not taking on too big a mortgage and still leaving enough room to save in the way I suggest. That leaves the issue of deciding when's the right time to buy, but that's another post in another thread for another day.
Tim.
 

dbphoenix

Legendary member
6,931 1,233
Hi dbp,
I don't know whether or not you watched the video, but this is not the way Anton Kreil views it. As I understand it, his argument is that as a matter of principle, renting is always preferable to buying, until such time as one has accumulated sufficient capital to buy one's house outright. As forker makes clear in his last post, this would have been extremely difficult to do over the last 20 years or so, because the gap between earnings and house prices has widened exponentially. So, as you say in the piece I've quoted, buying at the right time (with a mortgage), can still be an asset and not the liability that Anton Kreil suggests. Needless to say, his comments about risk apply here, i.e. not taking on too big a mortgage and still leaving enough room to save in the way I suggest. That leaves the issue of deciding when's the right time to buy, but that's another post in another thread for another day.
Tim.
No, I didn't, but I've read lengthy articles and interviews with and about him. As for the gaps, that would depend largely on where one lives and what one wants. We were able to sell our home in 2007 within three months of the top. Then of course we had to rent until the bottom was reached, then we bought another home. Just like the gurus say you're supposed to. :) So now we have our own home, no debts, and a large garden that provides much of our needs. But not everyone cares about that sort of thing.
 

NVP

Legendary member
36,537 1,843
i'm not going to watch the video - sorry ..........my suspicion is he is going to be very opinionated and clearly will also want to be contentious to generate interest in him and whatever he is peddling

read Kyosaki (Rich Dad poor Dad) on assets.........he completely rejects the concept of property as an investment unless its in a business wrapper (ie earning more than its costing to hold and going up in value) ...........

what anyone treats themselves to in their personal life (houses/cars / boats / travel) will be a by-product of the surplus income being generated from your business investments and earnings and any gains losses on them are outside the game..........sure if you are a canny person then perhaps owning Houses is better on paper than renting .......but dont view it as business........we all have to live somewhere......we can all show times when owning a property was a rock around your neck (if bought & carrying neg equity and paying mortgages)..........other times we all pat ourselves on the back at a dinner party as we look at the paper value of a house we own bought in one of the troughs in the market .........been both ends many times so no fuss........

i would be interested how he feels renting works better than owning property over longer time periods ............and remember unless its passive income you are using to pay the rent (again read Kyosaki)........then earned income requires you to turn up and perform (assumes health and ablity to earn) ..........and as a trader thats long days .......and not guaranteed income !!!

N
 

forker

Senior member
2,688 499
i'm not going to watch the video - sorry ..........my suspicion is he is going to be very opinionated and clearly will also want to be contentious to generate interest in him and whatever he is peddling

read Kyosaki (Rich Dad poor Dad) on assets.........he completely rejects the concept of property as an investment unless its in a business wrapper (ie earning more than its costing to hold and going up in value) ...........

what anyone treats themselves to in their personal life (houses/cars / boats / travel) will be a by-product of the surplus income being generated from your business investments and earnings and any gains losses on them are outside the game..........sure if you are a canny person then perhaps owning Houses is better on paper than renting .......but dont view it as business........we all have to live somewhere......we can all show times when owning a property was a rock around your neck (if bought & carrying neg equity and paying mortgages)..........other times we all pat ourselves on the back at a dinner party as we look at the paper value of a house we own bought in one of the troughs in the market .........been both ends many times so no fuss........

i would be interested how he feels renting works better than owning property over longer time periods ............and remember unless its passive income you are using to pay the rent (again read Kyosaki)........then earned income requires you to turn up and perform (assumes health and ablity to earn) ..........and as a trader thats long days .......and not guaranteed income !!!

N
I think his point is purely seated with not having debt and outright buying is a far better option. I gave it a go but had to make the decision to buy as I was unable to achieve it on a reasonable income.