does downgrading to lower timeframes leads to much more profits ?

Commodity_Trader

Junior member
43 2
as we know , the most successful traders have 40 % or less profits on a year.and most of them trade on h1 /h4/ daily timeframes.so if someone have an edge and trades that system on 5 minute timeframe (say 10 trades on average in a day on 6 trading instruments), theorically he has much more opportunity factor than a higher time frame trader .while a trader can have 15 -20 trades in a month such a intraday trader can have at least 200 trades per month.the profits are much less but opportunity factor leverages the overall profit. am i right ?

all of the top traders that i read about them ,were traders of least hourly or daily timeframe. do u know any intraday top trader ? (5 min or 15 min) (
 
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member275544

0 0
as we know , the most successful traders have 40 % or less profits on a year.and most of them trade on h1 /h4/ daily timeframes.so if someone have an edge and trades that system on 5 minute timeframe (say 10 trades on average in a day on 6 trading instruments), theorically he has much more opportunity factor than a higher time frame trader .while a trader can have 15 -20 trades in a month such a intraday trader can have at least 200 trades per month.the profits are much less but opportunity factor leverages the overall profit. am i right ?

all of the top traders that i read about them ,were traders of least hourly or daily timeframe. do u know any intraday top trader ? (5 min or 15 min) (

hi Commodity, this almost seems like a rhetorical question..if the most succesful traders are trading 1-4hr timeframes (however I heard it was higher than that actually and the most successful dont day trade at all), dont you think they would have got there having gone through this same thought process?
Having arrived at the most optimal, you would rather look at something different.
shall we see if the wheel can be better designed perhaps

Its true you can better define your entries for the higher time frames by going lower, however there is a point where you cant keep on going down before you just start getting too much noise. Hence why its possible that this 1-4 hr timeframe came in.
 
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cablemonster

0 0
as we know , the most successful traders have 40 % or less profits on a year.and most of them trade on h1 /h4/ daily timeframes.so if someone have an edge and trades that system on 5 minute timeframe (say 10 trades on average in a day on 6 trading instruments), theorically he has much more opportunity factor than a higher time frame trader .while a trader can have 15 -20 trades in a month such a intraday trader can have at least 200 trades per month.the profits are much less but opportunity factor leverages the overall profit. am i right ?

all of the top traders that i read about them ,were traders of least hourly or daily timeframe. do u know any intraday top trader ? (5 min or 15 min) (

there is no correct answer to this. you profit is a function of your expectation per trade and the number of times you can apply your edge. The time frame involved will likely alter the number of times you apply your edge.
 
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counter_violent

Legendary member
11,283 3,005
as we know , the most successful traders have 40 % or less profits on a year.and most of them trade on h1 /h4/ daily timeframes.so if someone have an edge and trades that system on 5 minute timeframe (say 10 trades on average in a day on 6 trading instruments), theorically he has much more opportunity factor than a higher time frame trader .while a trader can have 15 -20 trades in a month such a intraday trader can have at least 200 trades per month.the profits are much less but opportunity factor leverages the overall profit. am i right ?

all of the top traders that i read about them ,were traders of least hourly or daily timeframe. do u know any intraday top trader ? (5 min or 15 min) (

I once did a study of green v red candles in a strongly trending instrument over quite a long time period and also on different candle time frames.

All time frames sub 1 day showed up v down very near to 50/50.
The daily comparison only showed 53% v 47%

It was only when you got to weekly that the figures improved.

Go figure.
 

wackypete2

Legendary member
10,229 2,055
Price is the same no matter what time frame you are looking at (or chart type). Your interpretation of what is happening is what's important.

Peter
 
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BeginnerJoe

Senior member
3,329 350
I read a book once that said money was made from the sitting and not from the trading.

Warren Buffet sat on his trades for life and look what happened to him ?
 
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Commodity_Trader

Junior member
43 2
dont you think they would have got there having gone through this same thought process?
Its true you can better define your entries for the higher time frames by going lower, however there is a point where you cant keep on going down before you just start getting too much noise.
hi malaguti , i think they have not got there having same thought,cuz first technical analysis is rather new compared to other techniques, second traditional analyst still dont consider T.A and fundamental analysis doesnt work on intraday timeframe,third most of T.A science is inherited from stock trading and looking in daily prices because as a human our timeframe is daily (from morning to night),what u mentioned is just like dr. elder triple screen method for finding best entries . it works well on stocks . but as a future trader i think even it is possible to trade at 1 minute timeframe ,noise is on daily bar charts too . it is our mind that removes unpleasant parts and stick to favorable parts of charts which may be trends.


. The time frame involved will likely alter the number of times you apply your edge.
,
markets are range 70 % of times and trend 30 % of times. this is the same in daily charts and this is the same in 5 minute charts.it will certainly increase number of times you apply your edge but a daily trader can follow many many markets with less stress in a whole working day while a intraday trader may have maximum to 6 instrument on 15 or 5 time frame.

All time frames sub 1 day showed up v down very near to 50/50.
The daily comparison only showed 53% v 47%
It was only when you got to weekly that the figures improved.
Go figure.
i did the same thing and almost the same results.

Price is the same no matter what time frame you are looking at (or chart type). Your interpretation of what is happening is what's important.
Peter
peter i agree with u ,market is fractal .means it repeats itself and it is similar to itself. why ? because we, as people who make the market ,we are fractal .we repeat ourselves and in higher level history repeats itself. if an edge can make a
approximately 10 % return per month on 4h timeframe it should be capable of generating 10 % return on 15 minute timeframe on a single day. there are almost same amount of candles in 1 month of 4h compared to one inraday on 15 minute timeframe.of course i mean 10 % retun on what we risk ,which in h4 is much greater than 15 minute.(near 15 times ).
so do u know any top trader with intraday timeframe ?

I read a book once that said money was made from the sitting and not from the trading.
Warren Buffet sat on his trades for life and look what happened to him ?
i think he meant let your profits run and importance of patience , not mentioning the timeframe.cuz in intraday trading you should wait too.
 
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cablemonster

0 0
markets are range 70 % of times and trend 30 % of times. this is the same in daily charts and this is the same in 5 minute charts.it will certainly increase number of times you apply your edge but a daily trader can follow many many markets with less stress in a whole working day while a intraday trader may have maximum to 6 instrument on 15 or 5 time frame.

this 70-80% ranging 20-30% trending is often quoted on websites but I don't think it is helpful to know that. what is important is to either be able to trade in all market conditions or to isolate certain market conditions trading those and staying out of the other market conditions.
 

Brumby

Established member
593 139
as we know , the most successful traders have 40 % or less profits on a year.and most of them trade on h1 /h4/ daily timeframes.so if someone have an edge and trades that system on 5 minute timeframe (say 10 trades on average in a day on 6 trading instruments), theorically he has much more opportunity factor than a higher time frame trader .while a trader can have 15 -20 trades in a month such a intraday trader can have at least 200 trades per month.the profits are much less but opportunity factor leverages the overall profit. am i right ?

all of the top traders that i read about them ,were traders of least hourly or daily timeframe. do u know any intraday top trader ? (5 min or 15 min) (

The conversation also changes depending on whether you are a retail or institutional trader. Tim Morge mentioned once that it took him a few hours to liquidate his EURUSD position because of the size he carries.

If you are successful, you will eventually find your own trading time frame specific to your own strength and constraints. If you are chasing dollars you can always increase your position size. I would like to see research supporting a particular point of view or else it is just individual opinions driven by personal reasons.
 

Commodity_Trader

Junior member
43 2
this 70-80% ranging 20-30% trending is often quoted on websites but I don't think it is helpful to know that. what is important is to either be able to trade in all market conditions or to isolate certain market conditions trading those and staying out of the other market conditions.
why it is not helpful ? when we know this fact ,if i am a trend follower , i know that my system hit rate may be less than 30 %, so i try to cut my losses short during those 70 % rest percent & still have a positive expectancy system .
 

Commodity_Trader

Junior member
43 2
The conversation also changes depending on whether you are a retail or institutional trader. Tim Morge mentioned once that it took him a few hours to liquidate his EURUSD position because of the size he carries.

If you are successful, you will eventually find your own trading time frame specific to your own strength and constraints. If you are chasing dollars you can always increase your position size. I would like to see research supporting a particular point of view or else it is just individual opinions driven by personal reasons.
brumby , u mentioned a good point ,liquidating huge positions in lower timeframe is hard,so it may be the reason why institutional traders may not use it.i use 5 minute for trading.so i look to see if any other people use.
 

Shakone

Senior member
2,458 665
why it is not helpful ? when we know this fact ,if i am a trend follower , i know that my system hit rate may be less than 30 %, so i try to cut my losses short during those 70 % rest percent & still have a positive expectancy system .

Because it isn't even true. It's just vague and unhelpful. It can be trending for one person (who is looking at a particular timeframe) and ranging for another. So which is it doing? Trending or ranging?

that kind of statement can only have some meaning when you clearly define what it means to be trending (and your definition may be different from others).
 
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Brumby

Established member
593 139
Because it isn't even true. It's just vague and unhelpful. It can be trending for one person (who is looking at a particular timeframe) and ranging for another. So which is it doing? Trending or ranging?

that kind of statement can only have some meaning when you clearly define what it means to be trending (and your definition may be different from others).

So is truth and helpfulness as it is rather subjective.
 

Pat494

Legendary member
14,617 1,579
Surely longer time frames usually equal bigger differences in highs/lows. So stops/targets are likely to be bigger and thus profits/losses are likely to be bigger.
 
 
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