Do prop firms take swing traders?

[Chartsy]

Was in arabian's chatroom and asked people this and everyone said no. Is this always the case? I' talking like 2-3 trades a week.

 

[wackypete2]

There are some pop firms that will let you swing trade, BUT, generally you have to first prove you can day trade for profit with their firm or their techniques. Other restrictions apply. They really are looking for day traders though, and that's what their trading environment is geared to so that's where you'd get the most for your money.

Peter

 

[TimYoung]

Was in arabian's chatroom and asked people this and everyone said no. Is this always the case? I' talking like 2-3 trades a week.

I am sure if you offer enough money than there is never a no.

But you do realise there is a desk fee of about £1500 to £2000 a month and that will be only worth it due to the lower commission if you do lots of trades.

 

[Chartsy]

So they would let me swing , but It'd kind of have to be something 'on the side' of my day trading?

 

[TimYoung]

You can do whatever you like as long as you pay their desk fee and deposit enough money.

Why don't you just ring up the prop firms to ask for the details?

 

[anley]

You can do whatever you like as long as you pay their desk fee and deposit enough money.

Why don't you just ring up the prop firms to ask for the details?

Yes, pay the desk fee, use your own capital, then do what you want.

And if you're profitable over say 6-12 months, with low drawdown, there's a good chance you'll get some house money to play with.

 

[Chartsy]

2k a month is a lot, don't think it's worth it really for a swing trader, and I can't see myself making so much that 24k a year isn't much compared to profits, let alone being a 1337 scalper.

 

[Abstract]

This desk fee stuff seems so sketchy. Most legit prop firms, as far as I'm aware, don't charge desk or training fees. Some even pay a base salary for the first year.

 

[anley]

This desk fee stuff seems so sketchy. Most legit prop firms, as far as I'm aware, don't charge desk or training fees. Some even pay a base salary for the first year.

They're not in the business of giving things away for free. Most of them DO charge desk fees and this will be taken off profits FIRST, then you get paid on what's left. If they pay a salary this will also be a 'draw' ie it comes off your future profits.

So if desk fees are £1,000 and your draw is £1,000 and you make £2,000 in profits that month you're all square. But if you lose this month then the debt stays. So you might lose for a number of months then make £15,000 but all that money is used for is to pay off the debt.

 

[TimYoung]

Exactly. There is not a single prop firm that does not charge a desk fee. How do you expect them to pay for the platform, rent, IT etc?

Most legit prop firm do not charge for training fees but not desk fees. They are not a charity and if you want decent commission even when you are trading at home, you'll have to pay for platform fees / exchange fees too.

In terms of salary, I have had a look at them and some that does pay a small salary have a higher cut of your profit so read small print and decide cost/benefit.

 

[Abstract]

I'll list a few directional prop firms that don't charge a desk fee, but in fact pay a good base salary (20-60K) and offer training for the first year: First New York Securities, Trillium Trading and Gelber Group

 

[TimYoung]

yeah thanks for that. you know one in London?

 

[rosehound]

Those places aren't really what most mean by prop houses - also, there are very few in London - Mako Global is one example - those places hire engineering/computer science grads, MSc grads etc and they mostly trade higher frequency options market making strategies.

In London you have a lot more prop shops that are basically for discretionary traders, albeit you are encouraged to fit a certain style, low risk day trading etc.

The difference is pretty massive really, at the salaried places its more like a mini, high tech hedge fund, and most people working there would be programmers and developers, trading stat arb, and options MM strategies - whereas at the prop shops we're all BSD locals, throwing size around and generally smashing it up.

 

[spreader_legger]

Probably different business model.

I'd hazard a guess that it is far more difficult to get a position with one of those, whereas the ones in London such as Schneider give everyone a chance but turnover is much higher

I'll list a few directional prop firms that don't charge a desk fee, but in fact pay a good base salary (20-60K) and offer training for the first year: First New York Securities, Trillium Trading and Gelber Group

 

[Abstract]

Those places aren't really what most mean by prop houses - also, there are very few in London - Mako Global is one example - those places hire engineering/computer science grads, MSc grads etc and they mostly trade higher frequency options market making strategies.

In London you have a lot more prop shops that are basically for discretionary traders, albeit you are encouraged to fit a certain style, low risk day trading etc.

The difference is pretty massive really, at the salaried places its more like a mini, high tech hedge fund, and most people working there would be programmers and developers, trading stat arb, and options MM strategies - whereas at the prop shops we're all BSD locals, throwing size around and generally smashing it up.

I've spoken to traders at the firms I mentioned and although they do engage in market making options/other derivatives or low-latency trading, they also generate a substantial portion of their revenue via directional trading (mostly day trading, especially for new hires). While it is the industry norm to pay a desk/training/snake-oil fees, it would be unwise to settle for less if given a choice.