Confusion about leverage

Now that explain something, do you mind explain and illustrate further? (I'm sorry if my request is burdensome, it's just somehow many people have wrong perception on this matter, including me)

And, how to differentiate a market maker with an ECN?

Add some more:
This is what I understand, when I open a position, I actually have control on that position, but I don't own that position. If I lost, and choose to close the position, then it will be deducted from the $200 (1 lot of USD/JPY). Am it right?

First, an ECN broker basically acts like a stock broker - they take your order and execute it in the market, for which you are charge a commission. Market makers actually take the other side of your trade (at least temporarily).

As for the margin/leverage bit you need to understand what is happening through the process of a forex trade. You are borrowing (through your broker) the currency you are going short. If you were going long USD/JPY, then that would be JPY. That amount is then converted into the long currency (USD). Since you are borrowing the JPY, you must pay interest, but you receive interest for the USD side of it. The net is the rollover or carry. When the exchange rate moves, you profit or lose. The margin deposit you are required to maintain with your broker is the protection (to the broker) against the event of the market going against you.
 
First, an ECN broker basically acts like a stock broker - they take your order and execute it in the market, for which you are charge a commission. Market makers actually take the other side of your trade (at least temporarily).

As for the margin/leverage bit you need to understand what is happening through the process of a forex trade. You are borrowing (through your broker) the currency you are going short. If you were going long USD/JPY, then that would be JPY. That amount is then converted into the long currency (USD). Since you are borrowing the JPY, you must pay interest, but you receive interest for the USD side of it. The net is the rollover or carry. When the exchange rate moves, you profit or lose. The margin deposit you are required to maintain with your broker is the protection (to the broker) against the event of the market going against you.

Things are getting clearer. But since I'm borrowing the currency, I'm borrowing it from who? Who actually owns the money?

Thank you in advance :)
 
Stop worrying about the mechanics of the deal.
You are not becoming a broker......just trade mon, TRADE!
{Trojen wiff Rasta wig on}

I don't worry about it. Just curious how things works. Making money using a low deposit (like in previous posts, $200 to control a lot of USD/JPY) and earn high profit really fascinate me :LOL::LOL:

p/s: who knows one day I'll start my own brokerage firm :whistle:whistling:rolleyes::rolleyes::cheesy::cheesy:
 
Suppose you put up $200 of your own cash to control something to the value of $1000, (let's call it a 'Plonk', as it may be anything, a commodity, shares, currency...whatever) - ie you've got a leverage of 5:1. (Or 1:5, depending on what your viewpoint is <g>) where you are trading $1000 worth of plonks, but only have to stick $200 in your account.

You decide the plonk is going to increase in value, you go long on it - your $200 buys $1000 worth of plonks.

There is a set of underlying assumptions being made:
1) By you - that the plonk will increase in value - you may be wrong on that, you are planning to gamble up to $200 on your judgement.
2) The broker who you trade with is assuming that if you lose more than your $200 and they ask you for the difference, that you'll be able to pay it.
3) The broker reckons that in all but the most unusual circumstances they'll be able to contact you, should your plonks decrease in value, to obtain authorisation for more cash over and above the $200 you gave them already. This is the margin call. If they don't get the result they want, ie some readily accessible source of cash, they will close your long position, you will no longer own plonks, and your $200 will have disappeared.

Unfortunately, sometimes the market moves the way you don't want it to, faster than expected so sometimes your broker can't close your position as quickly as you'd like - you might find your plonks were sold at a $300 loss, and your broker now wants you to send the $100 you weren't planning to lose.

A major assumption when buying anything (ie a long position) is that the thing you buy will not become worthless in a flash - go long on Microsoft with a leveraged account, buy $100,000 worth of shares with a $20,000 account, and - in theory - when the Martians invade and MSFT drops to $0.00 you owe the broker $80,000....

(edit) - obviously on a short position the opposite applies... if something looks poor value but suddenly goes up in price then a short position can lose, very quickly, more than you intended to risk

Leverage is, in a way, an acceptance of the fact that most financial instruments trade within a range of prices that is only a few percent of the nominal price of the instrument - oil might be at $100, but nobody expects it to bounce between $0 and $200 over the short term. On the rare occasions that your chosen instrument DOES bounce by an unduly large amount you make out like a bandit or stump up more cash to stay in the position. Fail to provide the required cash for a margin call - and this is short notice stuff, not 'I'm in granny's will, and she's minted and feeling poorly' - and your position will be closed with very little regard for timing it to minimse the impact.

With leverage you are playing with more cash than you put up - normally it goes okay, you just multiply your wins or losses by the ratio of leverage, but sometimes you can make a huge lump or lose a lot, so you have to be able to stand both.
 
Thanks,

Now I understand how leverage works. But like I ask earlier, if the 'plonk' is not mine, I just have control over it, then the 'plonk' actually belongs to who?
 
Sometimes the plonk belongs to the broker. But often the plonk belongs to no one. It simply doesn't exist. This applies to the majority of derivatives.
 
It certainly doesn't exist with currency futures (so long as the position is closed). Not sure exactly what the situation is with the spot market.
 
One more question, what is market maker?:?:

A market maker is someone (or an institution) which makes prices. They generally stand ready to buy and sell at pretty much any time, but for that service they basically define the prices as which the market trades. Of course they have to be adaptable with those prices. Their livelihood comes from the bid/ask spread, so it behooves them to make sure prices are in a place where lots of volume is likely to flow.

Read this article
 
It certainly doesn't exist with currency futures (so long as the position is closed). Not sure exactly what the situation is with the spot market.

Nope. The spot market is a contract market like futures where you agree to exchange 2 days in the future. Of course, with rollover you never actually do - in retail trading anyway.
 
A market maker is someone (or an institution) which makes prices. They generally stand ready to buy and sell at pretty much any time, but for that service they basically define the prices as which the market trades. Of course they have to be adaptable with those prices. Their livelihood comes from the bid/ask spread, so it behooves them to make sure prices are in a place where lots of volume is likely to flow.

Read this article

Does that mean they buy the currencies in bulk and then set the price to the customers?

Nope. The spot market is a contract market like futures where you agree to exchange 2 days in the future. Of course, with rollover you never actually do - in retail trading anyway.

What about intraday traders. They open and close their positions in that day. Mind to clarify?
 
Does that mean they buy the currencies in bulk and then set the price to the customers?

No. They are not wholesalers. They simply endeavor to buy at the bid and sell at the offer (thus making the spread) over and over and over again. They provide liquidity, and are compensated for doing so. Most market makers do not generally take intentional directional bets, though sometimes they are forced into the by market action.

What about intraday traders. They open and close their positions in that day. Mind to clarify?

When you take an opposing position (short when you are long, and vice versa) you offset the original one, just as in futures.
 
Nope. The spot market is a contract market like futures where you agree to exchange 2 days in the future. Of course, with rollover you never actually do - in retail trading anyway.

Rollover means when it comes for the next day, the broker would close and reopen any existing positions rite?

No. They are not wholesalers. They simply endeavor to buy at the bid and sell at the offer (thus making the spread) over and over and over again. They provide liquidity, and are compensated for doing so. Most market makers do not generally take intentional directional bets, though sometimes they are forced into the by market action.

When you take an opposing position (short when you are long, and vice versa) you offset the original one, just as in futures.

So, market maker also do their own trade. When people say, they are trading trough a market maker as their broker, are they trading with the broker? (not directly to the market).

What is opposing position? When I see the market is bull I will buy, why must I sell at the same time too? Or, did you mean, when I open that position, I would long and later in order to close it I need to short? (clicking close position automatically make short position).

p/s: Where can I get you book?;);)
 
Rollover means when it comes for the next day, the broker would close and reopen any existing positions rite?

They effectively do that at the end of each trading day - normally about 5pm NY time, but that can vary by broker.


So, market maker also do their own trade. When people say, they are trading trough a market maker as their broker, are they trading with the broker? (not directly to the market).

Yes. That is correct. Their broker is taking the other side of their trade.

What is opposing position? When I see the market is bull I will buy, why must I sell at the same time too? Or, did you mean, when I open that position, I would long and later in order to close it I need to short? (clicking close position automatically make short position).

When you trade a market like futures or forex you don't actually take possession of anything. Instead you enter into a contract to do a future transaction. As such you do not actually buy or sell anything. You are simply long (favorably exposed to rising prices) or short (favorably exposed to falling prices). When you are long - meaning you have agreed to be a buyer in the future - you must take on a short position to offset your position and thereby go flat.

p/s: Where can I get you book?;);)

Amazon and the other major online booksellers for sure. I've heard of folks picking it up in bookstores in various locales as well.
 
...and I can't help wondering why you want to know who holds (or owns) the thing being traded? It' doesn't matter a jot - some people figure something will go up in price, others figure the price will drop, they trade their opinions without either side necessarily holding the thing they are supposedly trading. All that matters is that at any moment a price for the object can be agreed, so that traders can agree who owes what to whom. Very few people have a genuine need or garage space for tons of grains, lean hogs, or Brent crude but they trade them all the same.
 
...and I can't help wondering why you want to know who holds (or owns) the thing being traded? It' doesn't matter a jot -...

Believe it or not, I once got into an exchange with someone on another forum who thought I was revelling in the prospect of traders losing money. I think I had made some comment about how interesting it was going to be in the market (forex) when the volatility picked up and how it was likely to shake out a lot of the new traders that had been drawn into the market during what was a period of very low volatility. The other poster said something about how a good Christian wouldn't enjoy the fact that others were losing money. Of course I immediately informed him that if he was trading retail forex then by definition there was someone on the other side of the trade losing money. I don't think I ever saw him on the forum again.
 
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