Best Thread COFFEE - The next big bull?

Thanks DaveT - My SB (CMC) does not offer this one and IGindex does offer Arabica on a call only basis ie. no quoted spread.

I don't like that lack of commitment and points to being squeezed at entry/exit. How are you trading the NYBOT US contract with a formal commodity futures account (ie. no cap gains protection?). interested on your comments on this.

Long run it also looks like it maybe setting up although the disconnect between Robusta has been fairly wide for now.

I have linked in the Dec contract below and the tall wicks near previous resistance hint that there may be a better time to jump in, although long run interesting.

I have reverted some interest back to Gold at the moment as it may be setting up for a 'Baptist flag'.

http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=BICFZ06&o=&a=D&z=800x550&d=medium&b=CANDLE&st=
 
The Baptist -

I Iactually use IG Index to spead-bet NY Coffee (and the other commods).

Right now I'm LONG the March 07 contract on a 'Controlled-Risk' trade - total spread 80 points.

I find IG Index OK - If you are a longer-term trader who likes to take positions.



As for the market technicals, I do see your point about tall wicks at resistance - but would be surprised if we had much of a correction from here.

Last week we broke out of the broader downtrending channel that has confined the NY market since the January highs.

There may be some more 'work' to be done on the daily charts before blasting higher, nut I still see 12500 basis DEC as a target before the end of the year.
 
Pippppin said:
The Baptist.......no capital gains protection? Not sure what you mean by this


No Tax on profits through a SB, significant futures trading a/c profits will classify you as pro speculator and tax gains.

Without impliying anything or being a braggart profits of a reasonable size will be noticed soon enough by Mr Brown.
 
DaveT said:
The Baptist -

I Iactually use IG Index to spead-bet NY Coffee (and the other commods).

Right now I'm LONG the March 07 contract on a 'Controlled-Risk' trade - total spread 80 points.

I find IG Index OK - If you are a longer-term trader who likes to take positions.

As for the market technicals, I do see your point about tall wicks at resistance - but would be surprised if we had much of a correction from here.

Last week we broke out of the broader downtrending channel that has confined the NY market since the January highs.

There may be some more 'work' to be done on the daily charts before blasting higher, nut I still see 12500 basis DEC as a target before the end of the year.

Appreciate your response I also have IG, but only use them on mkts not offered by CMC.

In terms of Outlook I think you on the right side, the comment was purely tactical and timing orientated.

A tall wick on a candle (ie. an intraday high that is reversed fairly far back) implies that prices were beaten down from Highs and that there is still some counter trend selling, once expended there should be some open ground to BO into.
 
NY COFFEE MONTHLY BREAKOUT TARGETS 18700 LONG-TERM

I like the weekly and monthly technicals on Arabica.

Seasonally the market rallies from now into Feb/March at least.
 

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DaveT said:
In my perpetual quest to identify (and capture) the next 'big move', I have turned my attention once again to the NY Coffee market. (for a big move UP, ofcourse)

Hopefully we can start a dialogue here which 'leads' the move - and sees it through to it's zenith. :)

Briefly, some fundamental factors are as follows :

1) 4-5 years of sub 100c prices leading to closure/neglect of some coffee farms = reduced supply.
2) Forecasts for 34-36 m bags 05/06 from top producer Brazil would be bullish long-term.
3) Last Brazil Winter (mid-04) was colder than normal - some damage sustained.
4) Rains now during flowering needed for new crop development -IT IS RAINING.
5) El- Nino developing for early 2005 - could affect climate of major coffee growing regions internationally.

I believe point (5) - El Nino - could be significant.

Basically El Nino turns world weather patterns upside down - too dry where it should be wet and too wet where it should be dry.The net effects of a moderate El-Nino include drought in SE Asia (including coffee areas in Indonesia and Vietnam); also dry heat in NE Brazil.


My studies have found that most of the major spikes in Coffee over the last 30 years have been in El- Nino years : notably the last 2 major moves in 1994 and 1997.

So what could start a susained move like these historic years, fundamentally?

To alter the Supply/Demand PERCEPTION in 2005, we would need a lowish new crop forecast, followed by further weather issues (or fear of weather issues) early next year.
I say PERCEPTION, since fear of a supply shock is sometimes all that is needed to spark off a bull run (if the market has already encountered some tightening) - we've seen this in Cocoa and Crude Oil so far this decade.

Notice I haven't tmentioned the word 'FROST' yet? A bull market might CULMINATE in a frost (as 1994), not necessarily spark it off. Excessive drought/heat or high winds are much more likely to occur first, IMO.

Now for the technicals. I will only discuss the long-term charts, as I believe short-term we need to head lower again and test support.

For the MONTHLY chart , I show Coffee with a MACD study. Both lines have crossed the 0 (equilibrium line)from below, and each time this occurred historically, there was a major rally within 1-2 years. The trendlines indicate where a major rally could stall (reversed s/r)

I hve also attached the WHEAT monthly chart with the same study for comparison. My point is Wheat was in a similar set-up situation early 2002 with the chart and indicator looking about the same.

Drought and El-Nino provided the spark for Wheat in 2002. (Australia)


Well Well Done DaveT - do you advise Jim Rogers by any chance ........ ?
My tgt $2.50 on NewYork as this looks like 3rd bull market of last 30yrs each have blown $2 away! Just love the pennant developing on the chart.

http://www.mrci.com/pdf/kc.pdf

HS
 
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Thnaks Hook Shot -


Your New York target may well be achieved.


Correction underway today..but New York is holding firmer than London, which collapsed today DOWn over 110 at the low.

London's Vietnam Harvest is undoubably pressuring that market just now.

London looks to have made it's monthly spike for this year.

Now maybe it's time for New York's big Monthly Spike.

Notice how in 1997, NEW YORK was the first to produce the big move, with London limping up (in a smaller move) a few months after.

This time (in 2006) we could have the opposite scenario.

IE: London leads New York by a few months with it's (smaller) SPIKE.

If the relative sizes (or percentage moves) of the two markets are similar this year, we could be in for an historic move in New York.

We will wait and see...Holding Longs ofcourse.

Exe
 

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Coffee brewing nicely

Watching NY coffee closely.....though I suspect it will be a few more months before things start hotting up

Possible correction to around 105 in the meantime
 
March Coffee - new highs for the move daily, weekly, monthly


The correction was brief and sharp, providding me with an opportunity to add to LONGS.

I am fairly heavily LONG march NY Coffee now, and have been since October.

Note on the Weekly and Monthly charts (March continuous), we have just today breached significant resistance at 12500.

IF we close the MONTH (thursday this week) above 12500, then next WEEKLY/MONTHLY resistance is 13700-14200 area, or the 2005 highs area.

I remain VERY BULLISH Arabica Coffee.

Comments or thoughts anyone, especially The Baptist.??
 

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We have now broken out of the 21-month triangle on the monthly NEARBY charts.

This was always going to be a long-term continuation pattern to the long-term UPTREND.

I have a couple of measured targets.

1 X triangle Depth = 16000 (approx)

2 X Triangle Depth = 20600 (approx)
 

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You are on the trail my dear Watson..Now stay there and wait!

DaveT said:
March Coffee - new highs for the move daily, weekly, monthly


The correction was brief and sharp, providding me with an opportunity to add to LONGS.

I am fairly heavily LONG march NY Coffee now, and have been since October.

Note on the Weekly and Monthly charts (March continuous), we have just today breached significant resistance at 12500.

IF we close the MONTH (thursday this week) above 12500, then next WEEKLY/MONTHLY resistance is 13700-14200 area, or the 2005 highs area.

I remain VERY BULLISH Arabica Coffee.

Comments or thoughts anyone, especially The Baptist.??


Hi DaveT,

You have made many interesting and informative posts, so I will try give you the fullest view on your current position.

On the whole I believe it should be an encouraging one.

Technically Long Term 3/6 Months thru - 1 year to even 3 year timescale.

  1. On Robusta Coffee I am on record as being very Bullish for the timeframe outlined to the point of believing prices could go up 5 times even a ten bagger.

    If I were correct on this, there is no way possible that a bean commanding a greater premium(Arabica) will not follow suit to a varying degree. This means you should score well if patient. You appear patient having taken in your position a month or so ago and building it on the dips for the long haul, if you have, as I suspect you have, a well organised money management plan in place against temporary draw downs and play the long game, it is quiet possible that both you and I could bag a £million+ on trading our respective picks.

    I hope that thought cheers you immensely.

Technically Short & Medium term (1 week - 3 months)



  • I find the charts you have posted broadly bullish although my personal criteria requires a specific Break out set up with target levels and defined stop points.

    I think some of these may be determined on your charts but the timing for the initial move may not be as immediate, with a trending move rather than an explosive one being more possible than my usual set ups. My own set ups, when successful, accelerate away within an accepted timeframe and if they fail can be exited before stops are activated allowing bigger stakes to be played and greater leverage.

    Although even a Buy and hold for a few years, if you can hang on, will be highly effective in these markets if my view turns out correct.

Funnymentals

Finally there was an article on Starbucks being deemed a bully buyer towards Ethiopian suppliers, pressure was being brought to bare to change that & rightly so (think Tesco towards its suppliers for an idea I expect) and with emphasis on 'Fair trade' with Africa and Chinese aspirational coffee drinking still to take off, we have the news to allow for price rises. Fundamental stories could support what you and I believe we are seeing in the charts.

I hope this helps, patience and planning will see you riding the 'big bean wave'. Good Luck
 
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The Baptist -

Thank you very much for your full appraisal of this market.

Robusta is under pressure right now (Vietnam harvest,etc), but is undoubably headed higher along with Arabica long-term.

I am a patient and well managed bull, but may trade swings according to my entry/ecit criteria, taking profits along the way.

Here's to Coffee! :cool: ;)
 
Brazilian drought leaves coffee crop high and dry
Growers say output will drop to a four-year low


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/4365916.html

By CARLOS CAMINADA
Bloomberg News

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Brazilian coffee grower Joaquim Jose de Oliveira won't be bringing his full harvest to market this year. Drought that has weakened next season's crop is forcing him to husband this season's.

"I'm only selling enough to keep going," Oliveira said. "Otherwise, next year I'll have almost nothing to sell."

October rains came too late for trees in the prime coffee-growing region to recover from the driest winter in two decades. Few plants have flowered properly, meaning next season's harvest will be meager.

Forecasters say output in the world's largest coffee-producing nation will fall to a four-year low. That has pushed up futures prices by 10 percent in the past month to $1.2265 a pound on the New York Board of Trade. Prices may rise to as much as $1.35 a pound in coming months as farmers like Oliveira hold back supplies, coffee trader John Wolthers said.

"Producers are disciplined these days," said Wolthers, who works at Santos-based coffee exporter Comexim, which buys high-quality Arabica beans. "They've learned to manage the pace of sales pretty well."

Wolthers buys most of his coffee from the southeastern state of Minas Gerais, where communities such as Guaxupe produce some of the country's finest beans.

Oliveira said that because of the drought, only 1,200 of the 23,000 trees flowered properly on a plantation he farms with his three brothers near the town of Guaxupe.

"Without proper flowering, there's little room for optimism over the crop to be harvested in 2007," Nelson Batista Martin, head of research at the São Paulo-based Institute for Agricultural Economics, said in a Nov. 16 report. The institute said Brazil's next April-to-October harvest may shrink to 30 million bags, each containing 132 pounds, from 41.6 million bags this year.


A two-year cycle
Brazil's coffee production normally has a two-year cycle that consists of a larger crop, such as the one just harvested, followed by one of about 20 percent less. A decline to 30 million bags would represent a 28 percent drop.

Mild-tasting Arabica beans account for about 70 percent of Brazil's output. The rest comes from Robusta beans, which are more bitter and used to blend with Arabicas or to produce soluble, or instant, coffee.

About half the Arabica trees in Brazil failed to flower properly because of the dry spell, said Margarete Boteon, head of coffee research at the University of São Paulo, who is based in Piracicaba in southeastern São Paulo state.

The extent of flowering determines the potential of the ensuing harvest. After pollination, the trees develop fruit buds, which turn into bright-red cherries that contain two beans.

Guaxupe, which has the world's biggest coffee cooperative, is nestled amidst the hills that border the states of São Paulo and Minas Gerais, which produce 80 percent of Brazil's Arabica beans.


A 40% decline
The 10,000 members of the Guaxupe Regional Coffee Cooperative, known as Cooxupe, produced about 4.2 million bags this year, equivalent to 13 percent of Brazil's overall Arabica output. Next year, Cooxupe's production will fall 40 percent to about 2.5 million bags, said Joaquim de Andrade, the cooperative's chief agronomist.

Global warming may lead to recurrent droughts, reducing world supplies of Arabica, said Jose Francisco Pereira, general director at Fazenda Monte Alegre, Brazil's third-largest coffee farm. That would lead roasters to increase Robusta coffee, which is more resistant to heat and drought, in their blends, Pereira said. The biggest producer of Robusta coffee is Vietnam, followed by Brazil and Indonesia.

Pereira forecasts production at Monte Alegre will fall 38 percent to 58,900 bags next year.


Seeking confirmation
Mario Cerutti, director of purchasing at Lavazza, Italy's biggest coffee roaster, said there is still time for late berries to emerge next season.

Turin-based Lavazza may send analysts to Brazil to assess the crop. Without confirmation of a sharp drop in output, New York coffee futures will hover between 95 cents and $1.20 per pound in coming months, Cerutti said.
 
Some longer-term Bullish signals are starting to show up, suggesting a major upturn in the monthly charts is almost upon us...

The Monthly MACD (shown) is crossing UP over it's signal line, and the histogram has just risen above 0 for the first time in 18 months.

Do not underestimate how far this might go over the next 6-9 months.

Most of the major commods have seen 70's style booms on the long-term charts.

Even (erstwhile) slow-coach CORN has printed an historic monthly rally remimicient of the 1970's.

We have replayed out the 1970's (to some extent) in Gold, Platinum, Oil, Soybeans (03) , Wheat, Corm, Orange Juice, Sugar (a bit) and Copper.

Gentlemen, in 2007 I think it's time for Coffee.
 

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DaveT.........I agree. Coffee is looking very decidedly aromatic

Are you trading with IG? I had a look at their platform the other day. I noticed that coffee (arabica) was "call only". I do not like it when spreadbetters do this. I like to be able to enter and exit at the click of a button. What is your experience?

2007 could see a significant move in coffee. Your patience with this market could well be rewarded
 
Hi Pippppin.


I do trade mostly with IG.

In NY Coffee they are not just 'call only'.

IG currently offer on-line dealing in the March 2007 contract. Clients can enter and exit instanly on-line in March 2007 Coffee.

Any other contract will currently be on a 'call only' basis.
 
Correction due? Comparing 2004 to 2006

Here we are in early Dec 2006. A bull market rally in Coffee has established itself since October. This was the case in 2004, to early 2005.

I have overlaid the late 2004-early 2005 bull market rally onto today's chart, to show a few striking similarities, which to me suggest a possible correction to the 11800 area, basis March

Look closely at the chart I've compiled.

2004-5 is on the left of the chart.
2006 is on the far right of the chart.

Points of similarity:

1) The rallies both started in October.

2) In 2004, the first (December) correction broke the initial STEEP uptrend line. This is equivalent to the November 2006 2-day correction to 11600.

2) The December highs were diverging with RSI and slow Stochastics - ie bearish Di suggesting correction due.

3) That FIRST correction in 2004 produced a more shallow uptrend, which was BROKEN in the 2ND CORRECTION (Jan 2005), bringing the indicators down to oversold levels.

This 2nd correction (Jan 2005) produced a higher low than Correction No.1

THIS SECOND CORRECTION IS WHAT WE COULD HAVE COMING SOON IN DEC 2006.

4) In 2004/5 The support for Correction No.2 was found by extending an internal trendline (or median line, s/r line) from a previous high, across the lows of both the corrections I've highlighted.

THE EQUIVALENT S/R LINE IN 2006 INDICATES SUPPoRT AROUND 11800. THIS WOULD MAKE A HIGHER LOW THAN THE 1ST CORRECTION AT 11600.

So using 2004-5 as a template, a correction to 11800 support is suggested.
I hope you can follow that.

Basically all I'm doing is hypothesizing that a similar strucature to 2004-5 is unfolding.

No guarantee of that, ofcourse., but the similarities are there, IMO.
 

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DaveT said:
Correction due? Comparing 2004 to 2006

Here we are in early Dec 2006. A bull market rally in Coffee has established itself since October. This was the case in 2004, to early 2005.

I have overlaid the late 2004-early 2005 bull market rally onto today's chart, to show a few striking similarities, which to me suggest a possible correction to the 11800 area, basis March

Look closely at the chart I've compiled.

2004-5 is on the left of the chart.
2006 is on the far right of the chart.

Points of similarity:

1) The rallies both started in October.

2) In 2004, the first (December) correction broke the initial STEEP uptrend line. This is equivalent to the November 2006 2-day correction to 11600.

2) The December highs were diverging with RSI and slow Stochastics - ie bearish Di suggesting correction due.

3) That FIRST correction in 2004 produced a more shallow uptrend, which was BROKEN in the 2ND CORRECTION (Jan 2005), bringing the indicators down to oversold levels.

This 2nd correction (Jan 2005) produced a higher low than Correction No.1

THIS SECOND CORRECTION IS WHAT WE COULD HAVE COMING SOON IN DEC 2006.

4) In 2004/5 The support for Correction No.2 was found by extending an internal trendline (or median line, s/r line) from a previous high, across the lows of both the corrections I've highlighted.

THE EQUIVALENT S/R LINE IN 2006 INDICATES SUPPoRT AROUND 11800. THIS WOULD MAKE A HIGHER LOW THAN THE 1ST CORRECTION AT 11600.

So using 2004-5 as a template, a correction to 11800 support is suggested.
I hope you can follow that.

Basically all I'm doing is hypothesizing that a similar strucature to 2004-5 is unfolding.

No guarantee of that, ofcourse., but the similarities are there, IMO.


Interesting TA DaveT you make a fair case.

I have been looking to get involved on Arabica while Robusta reclines a bit, although on my IG account they only seem to offer 'call only' , no contract is on offer. I will call them and request a refresh so that I can get it.

From your chart it appears the new year was all strength again, virtually the first of January was a bottom before moving up again.

Robusta is more 'robust' a tree and failing arabica crops could lead to greater Robusta content in the blends (and a more bitter coffee), so this should lift Rob as well, it will be a temporary supply substitute. Although long run they will be correlated we sometimes get short term disparities.

In the long run though in a precious metals bull run neither of us are going to do badly if you are in platinum and I am in gold and in terms of view on this category of Soft we are clearly standing in the same room looking out of the same window.

I would be delighted if you did well in this trade/view as it will mean I have shared in a similar windfall.

I'll see if IG can get me on the board for this and will look for bottom's around the new year as an entry on Arabica if Rob's charts continue to look short term inferior. I still expect them to be the better set up of the two on the long view (qtly, monthly).

Are you getting your charts from the exchange site, as my data provider does not have data on arabica.

Good luck
 
March Coffee Weekly Continuous Chart


The March Weekly chart (continuation) below is plotted with the Moving Average % channel.

This shows a very bullish structure.

The uptrend is supported by the upper channel line - a classic bull posture last seen in 2004-2005 rally.

Today we had an Outside day up and closed near the highs for the move.

My calls for a bigger correction may not be heard...

The Bull run continues.

BTW - The Baptist - I use FutureSource and/or Barchart.com for my charts. 30-min delay.

Also use the IG live charts , FWIW.
 

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