CMC Complaint & Ombudsmans Response

[gle101]

interesting thread, flying 'under the radar' of the SB companies is the right strategy IMHO. £1,000 a pip? not in my widlest dreams, or nightmares. There is more than anecdotal evidence that if you try and be a big swinging dick player the SB co's pay you special attention. You have my sympathy Tom (on the basis that everything you're reporting is true) but I'm sorry to say this; you only have yourself to blame. To imagine you can simply take that kind of position and not set off alarm bells at CMC is naive in the extreme.
A cracking lesson to anyone considering using one of the SB firms; fly low and true. Want to make £100-250K a year? Then try to make 10-20K a month and sleep well.

Yes I agree, the stakes I am reading about on this thread is staggering. I don't think any of them applied any kind of proper money management. Unless of course, they they are very rich people and want to play around with SB.

 

[Splitlink]

interesting thread, flying 'under the radar' of the SB companies is the right strategy IMHO. £1,000 a pip? not in my widlest dreams, or nightmares. There is more than anecdotal evidence that if you try and be a big swinging dick player the SB co's pay you special attention. You have my sympathy Tom (on the basis that everything you're reporting is true) but I'm sorry to say this; you only have yourself to blame. To imagine you can simply take that kind of position and not set off alarm bells at CMC is naive in the extreme.
A cracking lesson to anyone considering using one of the SB firms; fly low and true. Want to make £100-250K a year? Then try to make 10-20K a month and sleep well.

How much per point would you need to bet to make that kind of money?

I ask, because I might be interested in boosting my account with a view to trading shares, or rather holding them, say, for a month, instead of buying them. Some are going to tell me go CFD's, but that would not be answering my question with regards to spreadbetting.

Split

 

[seguna]

...fly low and true....

True enough BlackSwan.

I think most of us know enough about SB firms to expect some jiggerypokery around execution prices. TomTom's dilemma is in the apparent abject 'Dick Turpin style we're taking your money so get l*st' nature of the way that particular trade was handled by CMC!
I think we can all live, to some degree, with widened spreads during a trade and such sillyness (as long as we're in profit ) - but blatant illegal behaviour is downright unacceptable :-0.

I for one hope TomTom comes out on top in all of this and that CMC really do improve their game as a result. Not just the usual 'alright boys, that one's cost us a bit, now's let's get back to ripping everyone else off!'.

 

[gle101]

How much per point would you need to bet to make that kind of money?

I ask, because I might be interested in boosting my account with a view to trading shares, or rather holding them, say, for a month, instead of buying them. Some are going to tell me go CFD's, but that would not be answering my question with regards to spreadbetting.

Split

Yes it would require quite a lot of money per point, and considerably amount of account deposit, that is if you apply proper money management. This regarding to the leverage of the positions.

 

[seguna]

Greed

At the end of day, there's just one word that summarises and encapsulates the grand array of collectively mad actions that's got the world's financial system in the situation it's in right now. Yep, it's GREED.

CMC make a shed load of money, being one of the largest market makers out there for SB, CFD and Spot Forex.

They really don't need to 'rip people off' to make it. Their size should enable them to compete efficiently, hold a good corner on the market and turn a profit. Ripping people off is old school and has no future. They have and will continue to get found out if they keep this up. I've noticed they've been promoting various 'partner brands' over the last year or so but behind those brands it's still them and their platform and dealing desk.

In this current bear market environment, watch as the public's tolerance for greedy market behaviour takes a beating. Overpaid bosses, non-performing funds and pension managers, greedy brokers and market makers, ponzi schemes, dubious property developers, greedy lawyers and selling agents...wherever scams and the things that help them thrive can be found. This bear market will force them to be exposed and addressed. As people's anger and pain levels rise, their tolerance and willingness to overlook things will go away and there'll be more and more litigation and people claiming all sorts of damages and reparation.

Until the excesses are purged and we're ready to start building again on the sound principles that got us here.

Hey, how on earth did I get into all that off the back of TomTom's matter?...that's what an easy Saturday morning'll do for ya I suppose:cheesy:...I think in all these years of membership, these may be my first Saturday posts!

Anyway, to the ensuing purge, watch out folks - life and the world as we know it will look a lot different on the other side.

 

[Splitlink]

Yes it would require quite a lot of money per point, and considerably amount of account deposit, that is if you apply proper money management. This regarding to the leverage of the positions.

Another question, because I am a spreadbetter of, usually, 10 pounds per bet. I can easily count the number of times when I went to 15/20

What is the maximum amount required, bet per point, to start to attract their attention
and become someone standing out from the crowd? Is 50 a mediocre figure?

Split

 

[karl6666]

Another question, because I am a spreadbetter of, usually, 10 pounds per bet. I can easily count the number of times when I went to 15/20

What is the maximum amount required, bet per point, to start to attract their attention
and become someone standing out from the crowd? Is 50 a mediocre figure?

Split

Split

What do you mean 15/20

 

[Splitlink]

Split

What do you mean 15/20

15 to 20 GBP per point

 

[karl6666]

15/20

Sorry

You mean 15/20 pounds.

Ive had 20 a point on the DOW, close with 2k profit.

I think the point is flying low, 20 / 50 a point would be OK if you arent clocking up a profit of 1000's, because that would get noticed.

My opinion if your a normal punter, 10/20 possibly upto 50 a pip. You would be fairly average. If you are blasting 100 to 100's of pounds a point on a daily basis, I imagine you would attract attention.

Again getting back to the thread. I have had problems with companies before, either its because youre winning too much or trading in style you dont like (scalping), there is a 'software error or 'phone dealer' - Finspreads are good at it...

Normally phone a dealer .. nobody answers, or rings for 10 minutes while you watch your money dissapear.

These are big players, but are they making more money fleecing people than they can honestly...wide spreads, cant close your winning position, lets face it, apart from TOMTOMs valid case. How many members have been ripped off, put it down to experience and moved onto the next bucket shop.

You cant break these people.. You have to build it into your profit and loss account, you will get reamed 1 day, its part of the game

Karl

 

[gle101]

Another question, because I am a spreadbetter of, usually, 10 pounds per bet. I can easily count the number of times when I went to 15/20

What is the maximum amount required, bet per point, to start to attract their attention
and become someone standing out from the crowd? Is 50 a mediocre figure?

Split

It depends on your trading style. I guess, even at £10 per point you attract their attention if you are a short term trader.

 

[gle101]

A good suggestion in this regard is to have several SB that you trade with. Alternate between these to avoid attracting too much attention. This gives you also better security, if you need to hedge your position.

 

[TomTom]

At the end of day, there's just one word that summarizes and encapsulates the grand array of collectively mad actions that's got the world's financial system in the situation it's in right now. Yep, it's GREED.

Hi Seguna,
All I did was saw a possiblility that this market would rise buy 50-60pts very fast.
I had a strategy and placed orders to increase my position as the market continued to rise.
As a result I had built up over £2k per point and was standing on nice profits.
To me this is aggressive trading, and has nothing to do with greed as you sugest. Simply good business.
Most confedent traders use this type of stratogey.
Sorry When CMC suspended my internet dealing to phone dealer, why would they do this ?
Then after an enquirey under FSA guidance this discovered that CMC do not record clients instructions over the telephone.
Dear dear this smells fishy to me, CMC Markets and its directors has many questions to answer as the authorties are now aware.
FSA Financial Markets Act 2000 ( suystems/procedures under market abuse come to mind )

Well I have said my piece and will be updating as soon as Im in a postion to do so.

 

[Black Swan]

Just another thought, rather than get yourself twisted up and throwing accusations everywhere why didn't you simply skulk away, lick your wounds and re-hit them with the same strategy at a later date? 50-60 pips is nothing so presumably you could have repeated this on a daily basis, heh if you can 'win' 100-150 grand a day what's a days loss of wages for you at that level?...like I said, just a thought....:whistling

 

[gle101]

To me this is aggressive trading, and has nothing to do with greed as you sugest. Simply good business.
Most confedent traders use this type of stratogey.

Building up a position that size at time you were not secured at all, is nothing but a sign of an unexperienced trader. You were lucky this time, but it could have cost you a fortune, if the market suddenly decided to turn around in a big way. Did you have any proper money management in place? My guess, you put it all on the table with hope it would go your way.

 

[Calinor]

I'm amazed at the number of people criticising TomTom. Sure for me that is a huge position, but I don't know TomTom's account balance, so maybe it is a reasonable position for him. Also he scaled in and added to a position that was in profit, and perhaps he had stop losses in place so that there wasn't as large a risk as some people have assumed. This is not quite the same as just opening one trade for 2000 per point and letting it run.

And Black Swan, maybe 50-60 pips is not so much to a trader at that level, but at 2000 per point would still be 100-120k. That's a lot of money, and not an amount that anyone would be happy to allow to be taken away 'unfairly'. That is aside from the principle of the matter.

why didn't you simply skulk away, lick your wounds and re-hit them with the same strategy at a later date?

Trying it again after finding that they won't even let you close out your position would not really be a great idea would it?

Yeah maybe he could have hedged his position with another broker/sb firm (this would cost him thousands of course just because of the spread), maybe that position is just too large as well, and he should know what sb comnpanies are like. But the basic fact is, they should allow trades of a certain size. Even if it is just £50 per point, and he should have been allowed to unwind his position over time with several trades of that size. If there was a single person who they did allow to take a trade on that at that time, then they have acted unfairly against TomTom. Regardless of his position, if they allow another person to say short at £10 per point on that at that time, how can they justify notallowing TomTom to trade the same given that he had the funds? They can't.

Also as a sb firm, they are making money risk-free from the spread. Many of their clients will be taking opposing sides, but there will be an overall bias of long or short, and the sb company should hedge that bias so that they have no risk. There are only two reasons that they didn't hedge it in the market:

1)They thought TomTom would be wrong
2)One of their traders made a mistake and didn't do it as he was supposed to

Whether it was 1 or 2, it is essentially their screw up. And they should have to pay the price for that.

 

[gle101]

I'm amazed at the number of people criticising TomTom. Sure for me that is a huge position, but I don't know TomTom's account balance, so maybe it is a reasonable position for him. Also he scaled in and added to a position that was in profit, and perhaps he had stop losses in place so that there wasn't as large a risk as some people have assumed. This is not quite the same as just opening one trade for 2000 per point and letting it run.

And Black Swan, maybe 50-60 pips is not so much to a trader at that level, but at 2000 per point would still be 100-120k. That's a lot of money, and not an amount that anyone would be happy to allow to be taken away 'unfairly'. That is aside from the principle of the matter. Trying it again after finding that they won't even let you close out your position would not really be a great idea would it?

Yeah maybe he could have hedged his position with another broker/sb firm (this would cost him thousands of course just because of the spread), maybe that position is just too large as well, and he should know what sb comnpanies are like. But the basic fact is, they should allow trades of a certain size. Even if it is just £50 per point, and he should have been allowed to unwind his position over time with several trades of that size. If there was a single person who they did allow to take a trade on that at that time, then they have acted unfairly against TomTom. Regardless of his position, if they allow another person to say short at £10 per point on that at that time, how can they justify notallowing TomTom to trade the same given that he had the funds? They can't.

Also as a sb firm, they are making money risk-free from the spread. Many of their clients will be taking opposing sides, but there will be an overall bias of long or short, and the sb company should hedge that bias so that they have no risk. There are only two reasons that they didn't hedge it in the market:

1)They thought TomTom would be wrong
2)One of their traders made a mistake and didn't do it as he was supposed to

Whether it was 1 or 2, it is essentially their screw up. And they should have to pay the price for that.

I have asked TomTom for some clarification regarding the security issue of building up the position, so far I have got no answer. If you carefully read through this thread, TomTom did blame the the SB to let him build up this huge position in the first place. Mind you, the stop loss might not be triggered unless he called the dealer. As I understand it, TomTom did not have an alternative way to hedge the position. I agree on the morale aspect of this issue, but what is the use, if a fortune is at stake and you are at risk to lose it all.

 

[counter_violent]

Tom Tom blames S B for letting him build up such a huge position...do me a favour will ya. He put on the positions...end of story. Responsibility for ones own actions.

Then when he gets no joy from his S B ...he doesn't even know how to access client audit files or take screen dumps in order to prove his case.

Talk about nieve !

Most traders who make the grade, find out how to cover all the bases at the early stage of their trading endeavors, when the stakes are small, in the event of x y z happening. It really is that simple.

He now has to resort to blaming anyone and everyone for his own total lack of awareness...unbelievable !

Then he tells us he is prepared to spend 20k on chasing this money that is very much in dispute and that he doesn't have much chance of recovering.

 

[TomTom]

Tom Tom blames S B for letting him build up such a huge position...do me a favour will ya. He put on the positions...end of story. Responsibility for ones own actions.

Then when he gets no joy from his S B ...he doesn't even know how to access client audit files or take screen dumps in order to prove his case.

Talk about nieve !

Most traders who make the grade, find out how to cover all the bases at the early stage of their trading endeavors, when the stakes are small, in the event of x y z happening. It really is that simple.

He now has to resort to blaming anyone and everyone for his own total lack of awareness...unbelievable !

Then he tells us he is prepared to spend 20k on chasing this money that is very much in dispute and that he doesn't have much chance of recovering.

Yes I built up a large postion and it become very profitable. I admit I placed all the buy orders and placed sell orders to CMC that they refered to phone dealer. Why would they do this as they are an online tading company ?
Are you saying that it was my own fault that CMC did not let me close the postion ?
Or are you saying I should be taking screen dumps every trade ?
Also are you saying that SB traders should have there own telphone recording devise's when speaking with SB Firms ?

Let get one thing straght, CMC are a SB Firm and did not accept instructions to close a postion during normal open live market trading hours.

Do you actually believe that this leavel of service is acceptable ?

Counter_voilet , please give me your comments.

Also do you work for a SB firm ?

 

[counter_violent]

Yes I built up a large postion and it become very profitable. I admit I placed all the buy orders and placed sell orders to CMC that they refered to phone dealer. Why would they do this as they are an online tading company ?
Are you saying that it was my own fault that CMC did not let me close the postion ?
Or are you saying I should be taking screen dumps every trade ?
Also are you saying that SB traders should have there own telphone recording devise's when speaking with SB Firms ?

Let get one thing straght, CMC are a SB Firm and did not accept instructions to close a postion during normal open live market trading hours.

Do you actually believe that this leavel of service is acceptable ?

Counter_voilet , please give me your comments.

Also do you work for a SB firm ?

You do whatever it takes to protect youself...how can it be any other way !
Levels of service have nothing to do with anything....protect yourself always.
No I do not work for an S B firm.

 

[TomTom]

I have asked TomTom for some clarification regarding the security issue of building up the position, so far I have got no answer. If you carefully read through this thread, TomTom did blame the the SB to let him build up this huge position in the first place. Mind you, the stop loss might not be triggered unless he called the dealer. As I understand it, TomTom did not have an alternative way to hedge the position. I agree on the morale aspect of this issue, but what is the use, if a fortune is at stake and you are at risk to lose it all.

Hi Gle101, some questions to think about.

1, What is wrong in watching the market move in the direction of profitablity ?
2, Is it wrong to add to this profitable trade ?
3, When it is felt the time is right to close, is it not unreasonble that the SB Firm accept your instructions over the phone after suspending internet/online trading ?
4, You assume that I only have one trading account ?
5, £80k is a lot of cash to have earn, I earnt that cash by trading in a small time frame, I are a trader and this is what traders do. problems do arise when the execution SB Firm accepts your orders to buy/sell then will not let you close this postion.
6,This was not at 9pm or 4am this was in while live furtures trading was happening, what could of possibley been the problem if CMC had of hedged the postion ?

Or was it due to CMC not hedging this postion, ( what opened in a small time pieriod) someone's head was going to roll at there dealing desks if this postion of over £80k profit got closed the reason for obstruction.