neil
Legendary member
- Messages
- 5,169
- Likes
- 752
TGM said:
I think "KHI" works for ODL. try him.
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=15820
I think "KHI" works for ODL. try him.
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=15820
a 200 dollar account wont take you very far at all. you need to take into account that if you want to trade cfds you need to open an IBC. That price could be up to 2000 dollars. And unless you're looking at an account size that is at least 20k its not even worth it.
With a smaller account size, you would be better off trying a spread betting account. you can also gear yourself higher.There are a couple places that accept us customers.
With a smaller account size, you would be better off trying a spread betting account. you can also gear yourself higher.There are a couple places that accept us customers.
If you are a serious trader and not just doing it for recreation. The best solution is open a business in Bermuda. Open a bank account in Bermuda. You transfer your profits every month or so from your broker to the bank account. Then you must go physically to Bermuda and collect the funds. It will work and there are great tax advantages with this way. Alot of very wealthy types in the US have been using Bermuda for wealth management for a long time to avoid US tax rates on capital gains.
akinkead72
Junior member
- Messages
- 30
- Likes
- 0
Hey muteperu, I would like to know which spreadbetting brokers would accept U.S. customers.
Thanks, Andrew
Thanks, Andrew
Any suggestions for CFD trading for US residents? If not which is the best alternative? Options?
Please explain further if possible. Company on who's name? to my understanding its even hard to fund a CFD account using a US/Canadian bank branch. All answers will be appreciated.
davertrader
Newbie
- Messages
- 1
- Likes
- 0
I am interested in trading CFD"s, I know this thread is old, but thought I would give you a try, is it still possible to get a broker as I live in the US? Please reply and let me now. You can email me at [email protected]
Please PM me also if you know of such a broker that will accept accounts from the USA. Actually I do use one broker that will accept such accounts so we can swap names. I will not post the name publicly in case it might cause problems for the broker.
capitalspreads
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,452
- Likes
- 79
Comment for all here.
The US does not permit its citizens to trade with foreign cfd brokers. Their law-makers also have a very long arm ! No FSA(UK), European or Australian regulated company will accept US private citizens resident in the US (and many will not accept them even if they live abroad)... Period.
cfds are not a recognised financial product in the US
If somebody says that they have a way around this ...then they will be asking you to make fraudulent statements on your application form. Beware companies that claim otherwise as they will not be from a jurisdiction that has US equivalent regulatory oversight. i.e they might suddenly disappear with your cash.
Sorry
The US does not permit its citizens to trade with foreign cfd brokers. Their law-makers also have a very long arm ! No FSA(UK), European or Australian regulated company will accept US private citizens resident in the US (and many will not accept them even if they live abroad)... Period.
cfds are not a recognised financial product in the US
If somebody says that they have a way around this ...then they will be asking you to make fraudulent statements on your application form. Beware companies that claim otherwise as they will not be from a jurisdiction that has US equivalent regulatory oversight. i.e they might suddenly disappear with your cash.
Sorry
I believe it is incorrect to say that the USA does not permit its citizens to trade with foreign cfd brokers.
There is no such law or regulation.
What there is is regulation limiting brokers who operate in the U.S. from offering such products.
Foreign brokers who have no U.S. operations are not subject to U.S. regulation, even in respect of U.S. citizens.
To quote from the book "The World is your Oyster" by Jeff D. Opdyke:
"Some firms insist that they cannot do business with Americans
because SEC rules or IRS tax laws prevent them from
allowing a U.S. investor to open an account overseas. Don’t
believe it. It is simply not true.
The IRS imposes no regulations on foreign brokerage
firms that do not advertise or solicit business from U.S.
investors. Instead, the regulations are imposed on U.S. investors
who themselves go in search of brokerage firms and banks overseas.
During each tax season, you must report any foreign profits,
interest, and dividends on your tax return, as well as fill out
and mail to the Treasury Department a simple document—
Form TD90-22 —detailing what accounts you own and where,
when valued at more than $10,000 in aggregate."
So it is perfectly legitimate to look for foreign brokers and use all of their services.
As a matter of fact I already have an account with one (which is fine and is registered in about 30 jurisdictions not including the USA) but am looking for another as well.
There is no such law or regulation.
What there is is regulation limiting brokers who operate in the U.S. from offering such products.
Foreign brokers who have no U.S. operations are not subject to U.S. regulation, even in respect of U.S. citizens.
To quote from the book "The World is your Oyster" by Jeff D. Opdyke:
"Some firms insist that they cannot do business with Americans
because SEC rules or IRS tax laws prevent them from
allowing a U.S. investor to open an account overseas. Don’t
believe it. It is simply not true.
The IRS imposes no regulations on foreign brokerage
firms that do not advertise or solicit business from U.S.
investors. Instead, the regulations are imposed on U.S. investors
who themselves go in search of brokerage firms and banks overseas.
During each tax season, you must report any foreign profits,
interest, and dividends on your tax return, as well as fill out
and mail to the Treasury Department a simple document—
Form TD90-22 —detailing what accounts you own and where,
when valued at more than $10,000 in aggregate."
So it is perfectly legitimate to look for foreign brokers and use all of their services.
As a matter of fact I already have an account with one (which is fine and is registered in about 30 jurisdictions not including the USA) but am looking for another as well.
capitalspreads
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,452
- Likes
- 79
you are looking at the wrong regulations it is not the SEC it is the CFTC that bars such transactions.
Do you really think that if it was permitted then companies would turn down business from the wealthiest country on the planet ! The USA would be the Golden Fleece as far as we are concerned. All the UK CFD companies have had lawyers look at the feasability and it is no-go.
This does not mean that you cannot find a company that will take you.... it is just that you should be aware of the risks
Do you really think that if it was permitted then companies would turn down business from the wealthiest country on the planet ! The USA would be the Golden Fleece as far as we are concerned. All the UK CFD companies have had lawyers look at the feasability and it is no-go.
This does not mean that you cannot find a company that will take you.... it is just that you should be aware of the risks
"it is not the SEC it is the CFTC that bars such transactions"
Neither agency has any authority to regulate trading outside the United States. Numerous wealthy individuals in the U.S. have all sorts of accounts abroad for trading that would run afoul of U.S. broker regulation but nobody has ever been prosecuted because there is no law that restricts citizens as to their investments. The laws govern the operations of *brokers* within U.S. jurisdiction, not individuals.
"All the UK CFD companies have had lawyers look at the feasability and it is no-go. "
The reason is that they all have ties to U.S. operations of one kind or another and therefore could be subject to U.S. regulation. You are right that they are risk-averse and just do not want to take the chance. Even advertising in the U.S. could run afoul of U.S. regulation and these firms are afraid that some of their advertising or affiliate operations could be enough for a court to hold that they are operating inside the U.S. and therefore subject to U.S. regulation. From a practical matter, it is not worth catering to U.S. clients if they cannot advertise, have U.S. 800 numbers, give seminars etc. and these activities could attract the jurisdiction of S.E.C. and/or CFTC.
There actually are *some* smaller foreign brokers, one even owned by very significant U.S. interests, that on very solid legal advice do accept U.S. accounts. Obviously they feel that no case could be made that they are operating in the U.S. One is in Europe and is licensed in about 20 European jurisdictions so I doubt there is any significant risk to it. Well, actually one should always worry etc. etc.
I do agree with you that one should never sign a false statement on an application form. I have not needed to do so.
Neither agency has any authority to regulate trading outside the United States. Numerous wealthy individuals in the U.S. have all sorts of accounts abroad for trading that would run afoul of U.S. broker regulation but nobody has ever been prosecuted because there is no law that restricts citizens as to their investments. The laws govern the operations of *brokers* within U.S. jurisdiction, not individuals.
"All the UK CFD companies have had lawyers look at the feasability and it is no-go. "
The reason is that they all have ties to U.S. operations of one kind or another and therefore could be subject to U.S. regulation. You are right that they are risk-averse and just do not want to take the chance. Even advertising in the U.S. could run afoul of U.S. regulation and these firms are afraid that some of their advertising or affiliate operations could be enough for a court to hold that they are operating inside the U.S. and therefore subject to U.S. regulation. From a practical matter, it is not worth catering to U.S. clients if they cannot advertise, have U.S. 800 numbers, give seminars etc. and these activities could attract the jurisdiction of S.E.C. and/or CFTC.
There actually are *some* smaller foreign brokers, one even owned by very significant U.S. interests, that on very solid legal advice do accept U.S. accounts. Obviously they feel that no case could be made that they are operating in the U.S. One is in Europe and is licensed in about 20 European jurisdictions so I doubt there is any significant risk to it. Well, actually one should always worry etc. etc.
I do agree with you that one should never sign a false statement on an application form. I have not needed to do so.
Last edited:
If you are trading CFDs and are US resident then how do you file for taxes?
I am considering trading CFDs but when I try to research taxation, I could not find what to do. Is there IRS form for OTC derivatives that I can use? What do you do?
Search on taxation of OTC Derivatives. I have some views as to how these should be reported (it is not that complicated) but I do not feel comfortable mentioning them as it is a fairly obscure area and I would be getting close to giving advice. I am not able to give them privately easier.
To start with, you will have to decide whether these should be reported as capital gains, and also whether they qualify for section 1256 treatment (i.e. 60/40 capital gains split). Note there are some provisions in Dodd/Frank which limit the use of section 1256 treatment for OTC derivatives.
To start with, you will have to decide whether these should be reported as capital gains, and also whether they qualify for section 1256 treatment (i.e. 60/40 capital gains split). Note there are some provisions in Dodd/Frank which limit the use of section 1256 treatment for OTC derivatives.
I have to tell you that I have run into an issue with trading CFD's for a U.S. resident.
According to publication 515, "A resident alien paying interest on a margin account maintained with a foreign brokerage firm must withhold from the interest whether the interest is paid directly or constructively."
I believe that it would also apply to U.S. citizens.
Now, it is possible that there are exceptions such as under tax treaties but these may require filing special returns.
According to publication 515, "A resident alien paying interest on a margin account maintained with a foreign brokerage firm must withhold from the interest whether the interest is paid directly or constructively."
I believe that it would also apply to U.S. citizens.
Now, it is possible that there are exceptions such as under tax treaties but these may require filing special returns.
It would be only 30% on the interest paid if any, not on the main trades themselves.
But I am worried that you might run into some such incidental interest charges on either Forex (on rollovers) or on CFD's (especially if highly leveraged and held for a while).
I guess it would not apply if you were only day-trading because there would not be any interest.
Some overseas brokers that take U.S. accounts may know (and there are a few). It must arise even with Eligible Contract Participants (over $10 million) which under U.S. rules can be accepted by all foreign brokers.
But I am worried that you might run into some such incidental interest charges on either Forex (on rollovers) or on CFD's (especially if highly leveraged and held for a while).
I guess it would not apply if you were only day-trading because there would not be any interest.
Some overseas brokers that take U.S. accounts may know (and there are a few). It must arise even with Eligible Contract Participants (over $10 million) which under U.S. rules can be accepted by all foreign brokers.
Last edited:
DelrayTyro
Newbie
- Messages
- 2
- Likes
- 0
I traded with these guys once, biggest bucket shop I have ever seen. You really are trading against their desk and they will ignore the closing of winning trades until it turns against you.
DelrayTyro
Newbie
- Messages
- 2
- Likes
- 0
Taxation is the biggest deal.
Windsor might be a place for trading CFD's they will allow US residents to trade, but what do you do with the money you make, assuming Windsor is not a bucketshop"
capitalspreads
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,452
- Likes
- 79
US citizens trading in the UK etc . I am afraid that the US has now made it an obligation of all companies accross the world to report to the US taxman. Ordinarily most companies ignore such instructions so long as they are operating legally in their own jurisdiction... the onus is normally placed on the client to report any taxable income..
But now the long arm of the IRS is extending across the world and the UK (being a bit of a poodle when it comes to the US) will no doubt fall into line (the French will naturally ignore it!).
As reporting is a complete and utter pain in the proverbial most companies will just turn down US clients as not worth the hassle.
Mind you it might be argued that now the IRS is actually taking information from cfd companies in the UK this presumably legalises their activity ?! (maybe, who knows) another question for our lawyers.
simon
But now the long arm of the IRS is extending across the world and the UK (being a bit of a poodle when it comes to the US) will no doubt fall into line (the French will naturally ignore it!).
As reporting is a complete and utter pain in the proverbial most companies will just turn down US clients as not worth the hassle.
Mind you it might be argued that now the IRS is actually taking information from cfd companies in the UK this presumably legalises their activity ?! (maybe, who knows) another question for our lawyers.
simon