Britain may be in 1960s nose dive

[FXX]

What is the economic evidence, where was the economic harm done to the UK? Maybe the foreign governments that subsidise their acquisitive multi-nationals are actually throwing money away for a political gain?

There are typically job losses but not on the scale that will harm an economy. The disheartening truth is they tend to be more productive. Some stats state from 3% to 10% more productivite. I don't see a problem with this for the most part but when the other end is a country that is the king of hording intellectual property, that's when I have concerns. I read this week somewhere that China have introduced a ranking system. People are ranked according to their loyalty including social media activity. If you are lower ranked you sit somewheres between losing benefits to being blocked from traveling. It's one thing having an ally based firm take over, it's another thing having a government backed company buy it out and use then tech to add advantage over us and our allies military.



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[Brumby]

What is the economic evidence, where was the economic harm done to the UK? Maybe the foreign governments that subsidise their acquisitive multi-nationals are actually throwing money away for a political gain?

Aside from economic consideration there is the national security interest factor whenever a foreign entity is involved. Unfortunately the Competition and Markets Authority in UK has a narrow mandate unlike the FIRB in Australia or CFI in the US.

Recent attempts to incorporate national security consideration in any foreign takeovers has lost momentum in the UK due to political development.

https://www.ft.com/content/9cb95e84-6bc2-11e7-b9c7-15af748b60d0

 

[Pat494]

. I read this week somewhere that China have introduced a ranking system. People are ranked according to their loyalty including social media activity. If you are lower ranked you sit somewheres between losing benefits to being blocked from traveling. It's one thing having an ally based firm take over, it's another thing having a government backed company buy it out and use then tech to add advantage over us and our allies military.

Sounds like some sort of Brownie badges for excellence and commitment.
It can only work in a 1 party state. In a democracy loyalties are too divided.

 

[tomorton]

There are typically job losses but not on the scale that will harm an economy. The disheartening truth is they tend to be more productive. Some stats state from 3% to 10% more productivite. I don't see a problem with this for the most part but when the other end is a country that is the king of hording intellectual property, that's when I have concerns. I read this week somewhere that China have introduced a ranking system. People are ranked according to their loyalty including social media activity. If you are lower ranked you sit somewheres between losing benefits to being blocked from traveling. It's one thing having an ally based firm take over, it's another thing having a government backed company buy it out and use then tech to add advantage over us and our allies military.



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I am confident any government would find a legitimate legal way to prevent the loss of strategic militarily important enterprises to foreign ownership within a hostile country.

But that wouldn't have been applied to Cadbury's, Boot's or Jaguar.

 

[sminicooper]

I am confident any government would find a legitimate legal way to prevent the loss of strategic militarily important enterprises to foreign ownership within a hostile country.

But that wouldn't have been applied to Cadbury's, Boot's or Jaguar.

I would hope so too, but the interests of national security didn't stop the post-war Labour government giving away the full design details of our then current military jet engine to the Soviets – they even sent them the real thing in case they had difficulty with the drawings! I wonder what comrade Corbyn would do?

 

[FXX]

I am confident any government would find a legitimate legal way to prevent the loss of strategic militarily important enterprises to foreign ownership within a hostile country.

But that wouldn't have been applied to Cadbury's, Boot's or Jaguar.

I would hope that was the case and the example I gave probably was outside the capability of politicians or business leaders to have known where the tech was used. Foreign takeovers are a good thing for the economy in general. The evidence all proves this to be the case with productivity and RnD. We need to be careful though in separating the benefits of it and the drain of IP from the source country. In a world where competitiveness is tough the long term implications include a reduction in competitiveness in context to technology advancements.

I am just waiting to read the news that the sabre engine being developed in the UK is taken over by a foreign firm. This engine could revolutionise space travel and allow a 4 hour journey between Sydney and UK. It also has commercial space applications like satellite delivery or tourism far cheaper than what's currently being developed.

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[Pat494]

What is the economic evidence, where was the economic harm done to the UK? Maybe the foreign governments that subsidise their acquisitive multi-nationals are actually throwing money away for a political gain?

They don't buy up the 2nd rate crap companies. Oh no, they buy the best with the greatest talent and name in them. If they are not worth some action by the Westminster deadbeats I don't know what is frankly.

Maybe the UKIP lot should reform to try and save Britain and its heritage or should we just allow ourselves to be turned over by rampant capitalism/oil money/Russian oligarchs etc.
We definately need energising and a big shake up.
End the current 3 decades of yob culture imho

 

[sminicooper]

The British are brilliant at inventing things but not so good at marketing. It still seems that Brexit or no, we have to earn our living with our brain power.

 

[Pat494]

The British are brilliant at inventing things but not so good at marketing. It still seems that Brexit or no, we have to earn our living with our brain power.

Some countries are brilliant at copying our designs and ideas and even improving them. Now that China/India etc. are gettig their own Varsities togethor they may not need so much help. Plenty of top talent there too. The amount of work put in by South Korean students makes our lot seem incompetent duffers before the race of life even has started.

 

[tomorton]

They don't buy up the 2nd rate crap companies. Oh no, they buy the best with the greatest talent and name in them. If they are not worth some action by the Westminster deadbeats I don't know what is frankly.

Maybe the UKIP lot should reform to try and save Britain and its heritage or should we just allow ourselves to be turned over by rampant capitalism/oil money/Russian oligarchs etc.
We definately need energising and a big shake up.
End the current 3 decades of yob culture imho

I am sure the price paid to the British owners would be more than they had invested, so now the UK has more investment capital than it had before - what's bad about that?

And the talent in those companies was always free to stay or go where it pleased, and much of our talent has emigrated on their own initiative. I wonder if you believe our top technical people should be at liberty to emigrate if they wish, or should they be confined to the UK like the ownership of their companies?

What's yob culture got to do with anything? Off the subject again.

 

[Pat494]

Another household name for a long time has been Marks & Spencer.
I was appalled at their recent financial statement plus the news the incompetent fools at the top are having to close 100 stores.

So I went into town yesterday and visited their store. On a large ground floor area there was 1 member of staff and NOT a single customer. Looking around at the drab clothing I am not surprised. The Chief Buyer etc, need sacking as quickly as possible before they destroy the company.
Must have colourful, trendy, fashionable clothes not the slate grey and black stuff on show on rack after rack.

 

[tomorton]

Sad but true. M&S lost their way many years ago - look at this from 2001 - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2001/jan/23/marksspencer1

 

[Pat494]

One might despair looking at the UK's recent past performances.
Just about all the great UK names have been flogged off by the Big City of London vultures.
Even rock solid banks like RBS, Coop etc. have suffered terribly from a shadowy group of people appointing very second rate directors who have totally failed the customers and shareholders.
Something is terribly wrong in the system and needs sorting out asap.

 

[hioim]

The retail sector in the UK has been struggling for some time - personally I attribute this generally to technological advances, namely Amazon and it's next day delivery, that has revolutionized the habits of consumer spending and the high street is suffering because of it.

 

[Pat494]

The retail sector in the UK has been struggling for some time - personally I attribute this generally to technological advances, namely Amazon and it's next day delivery, that has revolutionized the habits of consumer spending and the high street is suffering because of it.

I agree Amazon has become a hugely strong competitor but a retail chain that stocks drab clothes that don't sell doesn't help.
The M&S chief Buyer must be some sort of moron or an undercover agent for the vultures.

 

[tomorton]

The retail sector in the UK has been struggling for some time - personally I attribute this generally to technological advances, namely Amazon and it's next day delivery, that has revolutionized the habits of consumer spending and the high street is suffering because of it.

No. I wish the retail sector in the UK had only been slow to respond to Amazon etc. but in reality, you are letting them off too easily. The sector has suffered from complacent and untalented management for decades -
Lewis's went into administration in 1991
BHS struggled financially all through the 1990's
Wooloworth's started closing stroed in 1993
M&S's profits peaked in 1997/98
C&A decided to pull out of the UK in 2001
Owen Owen went into administration in 2007

John Lewis and Debenhams have done alright. God knows how WH Smith survive.

 

[hioim]

No. I wish the retail sector in the UK had only been slow to respond to Amazon etc. but in reality, you are letting them off too easily. The sector has suffered from complacent and untalented management for decades -
Lewis's went into administration in 1991
BHS struggled financially all through the 1990's
Wooloworth's started closing stroed in 1993
M&S's profits peaked in 1997/98
C&A decided to pull out of the UK in 2001
Owen Owen went into administration in 2007

John Lewis and Debenhams have done alright. God knows how WH Smith survive.

I'd mostly agree with this, poor management resulting in slow, often non-existent plans to change with the times, and more importantly, consumer behaviors and trends has a large part in this as well the growth of e-commerce.

As to WH Smiths, I recently read that service station / airport / train station type stores now account for more than 50% of revenue for the first time, these are perhaps the only places left where they can overcharge, under deliver and still retain trade?

 

[ThePiptaker]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/6338725/marks-and-spencer-store-closures-announced-week/

Britain's economic future looks dire to me.
Just about all the once dominant great names like Cadburies, Boots, Jaguar etc. are now foreign owned having been flogged off by the vultures in The City of London. Not a murmur from those unpatriotic idiots in Parliament.

With Brexit coming up. the UK is in deep cr*p imho.
The politicians are flooding the country with immigrants to boost the building industry to make things look better etc. But that won't bring in the bread money for most of us.

Cheap labour has been flooding the country long before brexit.

There's actually a bigger picture going on which requires the destruction of nation states and constitutions for the arrival of the new "globalism" that the left (commies) are pushing.

Things will get way worse so the citizens will embrace globalization ( end to nation statehood) which means our leaders are corrupt (nothing new).

 

[Pat494]

At least Trump is trying to stop the collapse of the USA's economics BUT...…….doing it all wrong imho.
If Mrs May had some active braincells working then she would be tackling the same problem.
They need to protect intellectual property and have a positive response to foreign take overs of our cutting edge companies like Arm Holdings. The employees should on a 70% majority have the right to block such take overs.

Come Brexit which is likely to be a hard one with no concessions from the EU bosses Britain will need all its expertise and profitable companies.

 

[tomorton]

All May can do is hope to hold on for a second term. She will be pushed to resign by her own cabinet, Conservative PM's usually are, and its just a matter of when, not if. Her only "quality" is she's stubborn: or is that just stiff as a plank? She has no voter charisma, no broadly popular policies, no visible moral direction of travel, she's not good with tricky decisions, she hasn't been able to convince her own colleagues to support her. Somewhere she has acquired a high opinion of her own leadership qualities. I bet she'd be a hard-working office manager for a medium-sized regional plastics manufacturer.