Brexit - in or out

[Trader333]

Boris has no chance of becoming PM because the party is divided and he is strongly on one side and what they need is to unite again. It will be someone who didn't actively engage in the campaign on either side so Theresa May has to be in the running IMHO

 

[counter_violent]

Very true.

I fear the writing's on the wall for the whole EU project. Without the U.K. contributing billions - I suspect Germany is going to struggle to carry the can on her own. It's too much for one country to do pretty much single handedly. She's certainly the linchpin; the EU can't survive without her. And it's just a matter of time before their own economy takes a downturn and/or the German people realize they are propping up a system that benefits just about everyone else but them. It's like being in the pub and realizing that you are the only one buying the drinks. Two or three times is annoying; after that it's adios amigos.

If the EU is to survive, it's going to have to make some properly major reforms from within: reforms it should have made long ago when euro skepticism really started to gain traction. I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see that happening. All of which is a shame, because I still think the original idea of facilitating trade is good one and, if that was all that the EU was about (instead of becoming an out of control undemocratic political monster), I'd have voted remain.

In trading terms, Britain's departure is a large pullback. Only time will tell whether or not that turns into a full blown reversal.
Tim.

Given that the EU's initial response is more EU protectionism and squashing any dissenting voices from within, then I agree, they are doomed. These people at the top are incapable of changing direction so all that will happen is more stagnation and oppression.

 

[counter_violent]

Not angry at all mate, but I am very disappointed. Stunned mass public could have been so easily misled by a clever and well crafted half lies, half truth and deceitful presentation of stats & numbers. Perhaps I shouldn't be, never the less still having trouble having to walk the path that now lays ahead of us. :whistling

Some may call this having a blast but I still can't get over my friend (not you, my real friend at work) thinkng it to be so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07gyxdf/newsnight-24062016
There's a link here to newsnight post Brexit. Have a listen from min 45 where they present a film from Burnley. It's about ordinary people and their day to day struggles. These people don't have aspirations. They are excluded from all the opportunities afforded to those who are young, educated and mobile.

These are the very people who will need to be included in the bright new future. The challenge will be, how to get them engaged and feel as though they have a stake in community and their own future prosperity.

After the short film there is a discussion where both sides are extremely dismissive of each others side of the argument. Particularly the journalist woman who is very rude to Starkey after he asks her repeatedly to answer the question.

 

[Atilla]

Boris has no chance of becoming PM because the party is divided and he is strongly on one side and what they need is to unite again. It will be someone who didn't actively engage in the campaign on either side so Theresa May has to be in the running IMHO

Yes true but who ever takes control of the party not going to be thrilled leading a split party and one that's exiting EU.

I still hold the view - the lead should be given to a leading Brexiter to deliver on their campaign blurb.

So far I'd say prior to start of negotiations (whenever it may be) EU is playing hard ball already. Go in hard at the start and then soften/compromise with gift offerings. EU talking about closing free skies if we are not in the EU. Not only will holidays cost more due to sterling's fall but we'll have higher cost of flights to EU destinations.

If we put in a Brexiter, that should take some of the wind out of their sails so to speak. One assumes both sides will try and avoid a bigger fall out than can be avoided. :whistling

 

[Pat494]

I want to hear from other dissenters within the EU. Just tightening the screws by the EU will hasten their departure imho. The Greeks could tell the EU clots to stuff their debts up their ***** too.

 

[counter_violent]

I want to hear from other dissenters within the EU. Just tightening the screws by the EU will hasten their departure imho. The Greeks could tell the EU clots to stuff their debts up their ***** too.

I think it's all too late Pat. There are plenty of anti establishment movements all chipping away from within. It really is just a matter of time before the whole thing implodes.

 

[Splitlink]

Good post.....after THE nights events i went out of the house about 5.45am, to get some fresh air, went up on the fells for a walk, middle of nowhere, raining, soaked within minutes.......but for the first time since i was a child i felt English and British.

I'm not saying that You, Tim and all the Brexiters are wrong. The EU has a lot of faults but, so far, they do not seem to have affected my family. Germany has done very well out of the EU, thank you! It's not all one way.--as you are about to find out.

What Barjon said, that I I had to correct myself to him about, is that you procrastinate. I see that, now. Cameron is not notifying Brussels until he resigns in October.

Why are you doing this? I disagree with Juncker and Hollande on most things---that's my democratic right---but they are correct on that point. Out means Out!

You should do that as soon as possible. Until you do, you are sitting on the fence, as you have done on most things that did not suit you over the past 40 years, trying to get the best out of both worlds.

You are going to have to come to terms with new circumstances, as we must. Get cracking with the negotiations and leave! Please.

 

[counter_violent]

I'm not saying that You, Tim and all the Brexiters are wrong. The EU has a lot of faults but, so far, they do not seem to have affected my family. Germany has done very well out of the EU, thank you! It's not all one way.--as you are about to find out.

What Barjon said, that I I had to correct myself to him about, is that you procrastinate. I see that, now. Cameron is not notifying Brussels until he resigns in October.

Why are you doing this? I disagree with Juncker and Hollande on most things---that's my democratic right---but they are correct on that point. Out means Out!

You should do that as soon as possible. Until you do, you are sitting on the fence, as you have done on most things that did not suit you over the past 40 years, trying to get the best out of both worlds.

You are going to have to come to terms with new circumstances, as we must. Get cracking with the negotiations and leave! Please.

They are only trying to be seen to be playing hard ball Split. So it sends a fear message to the rest of the members.

 

[Erasmus]

You are going to have to come to terms with new circumstances, as we must. Get cracking with the negotiations and leave! Please.

Currently there is no head of the British government, only a caretaker PM who has said that he has no interest in negotiating towards something he does not believe in. It's possible that within a few days the Labour Party leader post will be similarly vacant. That would be unprecedented: the two major UK political parties without a leader. It's simply impossible for Article 50 to be invoked until the chaos in the UK political system is stabilised. It's not impossible that Labour would elect a new 'pro-EU' leader who could then demand a general election on the basis that a Labour victory would establish a mandate to over-rule the referendum, given increasing evidence that many 'Leave' voters went to bed on Friday thinking 'oh fck!' and the 'Leave' campaign is already rowing away from its promises on NHS funding and immigration.

In reality Brussels also knows two years is not enough time - the 'get on with it' chorus is simply for the voters in other countries who might be wavering.

What a clusterfck. Well done Britain - no wonder Thatcher never allowed referendums.

 

[barjon]

I'm not saying that You, Tim and all the Brexiters are wrong. The EU has a lot of faults but, so far, they do not seem to have affected my family. Germany has done very well out of the EU, thank you! It's not all one way.--as you are about to find out.

What Barjon said, that I I had to correct myself to him about, is that you procrastinate. I see that, now. Cameron is not notifying Brussels until he resigns in October.

Why are you doing this? I disagree with Juncker and Hollande on most things---that's my democratic right---but they are correct on that point. Out means Out!

You should do that as soon as possible. Until you do, you are sitting on the fence, as you have done on most things that did not suit you over the past 40 years, trying to get the best out of both worlds.

You are going to have to come to terms with new circumstances, as we must. Get cracking with the negotiations and leave! Please.

It's an interesting constitutional impasse. Parliament has to pass the legislation to take us out and MPs are remain by a huge majority. What do they sacrifice - their own personal conviction (and perceived responsibility) that exit will prove a disaster for Britain, or the expressed will of the majority of people?

With our sort of representational democracy referenda are all very well when the result is in accord with parliament's will. When it's not...............

 

[forker]

http://news.sky.com/story/1717427/uk-must-trigger-article-50-urgently-france

 

[Splitlink]

I disagree, Cameron is PM until he resigns. It was he who said that the referendum result would be final.

A caretaker PM is what Spain has ie. the result of a free, democratic election that resulted in a hung Parliament ( new elections tomorrow, BTW).

Cameron is buying time and I wonder what he is up to.

The UK is in a bigger mess than just the presence of two unpopular leaders suggest but there has been enough rhetoric saidon the matter.

Politicians and T2W posters will, always, tell us what they want us to believe.

Only time will tell.

 

[counter_violent]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36629331

Oh here we go.
Sturgeon now looking for talks with Brussels to undermine the UK position.

She knows perfectly well that Scotland cannot transition from UK to EU status as if nothing happened.

She doesn't even have a mandate from the Scottish people to undertake such an approach.

 

[Sonicscooter]

Currently there is no head of the British government, only a caretaker PM who has said that he has no interest in negotiating towards something he does not believe in. It's possible that within a few days the Labour Party leader post will be similarly vacant. That would be unprecedented: the two major UK political parties without a leader. It's simply impossible for Article 50 to be invoked until the chaos in the UK political system is stabilised. It's not impossible that Labour would elect a new 'pro-EU' leader who could then demand a general election on the basis that a Labour victory would establish a mandate to over-rule the referendum, given increasing evidence that many 'Leave' voters went to bed on Friday thinking 'oh fck!' and the 'Leave' campaign is already rowing away from its promises on NHS funding and immigration.

In reality Brussels also knows two years is not enough time - the 'get on with it' chorus is simply for the voters in other countries who might be wavering.

What a clusterfck. Well done Britain - no wonder Thatcher never allowed referendums.

This is the very reason most of us voted leave, because we are sick of listening to condescending remarks from people about how MY country see's it's future......in the style of my generation...."up yours"

 

[barjon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36629331

Oh here we go.
Sturgeon now looking for talks with Brussels to undermine the UK position.

She knows perfectly well that Scotland cannot transition from UK to EU status as if nothing happened.

If she can get a commitment of some sort that an independent Scotland would be welcomed then she can press for another independence referendum.

The oil price might still be against her but she'll hold out the prospect of Nissan, Honda etc etc moving from England to Scotland to maintain their EU presence.

 

[barjon]

This is the very reason most of us voted leave, because we are sick of listening to condescending remarks from people about how MY country see's it's future......in the style of my generation...."up yours"

It's my bloody country, too, as well as the 48% who voted remain. You summed up the quality of your own contribution as well as your belligerent disdain of anyone who doesn't share your view with your **** the EU post.

 

[counter_violent]

If she can get a commitment of some sort that an independent Scotland would be welcomed then she can press for another independence referendum.

The oil price might still be against her but she'll hold out the prospect of Nissan, Honda etc etc moving from England to Scotland to maintain their EU presence.

So you agree that Scotland would have to leave the UK, then apply to join the EU.

She should also not assume that offshore oil and gas belongs to Scotland. It belongs to the UK, so at best, Scotland will only get a proportionate share of revenue.

These Scot Nats are really messed up in their thinking you know.

As One Scot told me whilst I was working there. "ye cannot run a country on tartan and shortbread"!

 

[metrader]

We're not in EU any more, so no point discussing about it. Let's make Great Britain great again!

 

[counter_violent]

I might have known this twerp was behind it.
Wants to re-write the rulebook after the fact.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36619907

 

[Oscar Reed]

Biggest event sine George left Wham.