'Big Traders' = Irrelevant ?

mma

1
233 0
" BIG TRADERS " = Irrelevant ?

Fact : Circa 90% of readers here trade with start up capital of less 10,000 .

So who do we want to LEARN from ? the guy who turns 1k to 5k in year and KEEPS that over 2 years or the would be * Big * trader who punts with a SU of 200k , but only manages say 50k pa ?

It is obvious that the small guy is completely relevant to us and that the so called big trader is irrelevant ? WHY ?

1) First off , if you don't have that sort of SU capital , then don't even think about it . You will have to start small with whatever you have then IF you are successfull you can MAYBE move up .

2) The majority of small traders will be using SB firms , larger traders will use Brokers

3) We have to use SB firms because the margins are so much smaller . So $10 on the Dow would be margined at 250 x bet = $2500 . A similiar size bet on the emini dow would margin you at $10,000 per contract !
You can see that the margin cost with brokers is 4 x MORE than with SB firms ! something that smaller players CANNNOT ignore.

Before you even start with a broker you would have to cough up $10,000 , and that will increase if your trades lose money.

For that money , you can play with four times the size with an SB firm!

4) Of course there are problems , the service , software etc from SB firms can be substandard . These have been well documented . However , it still a big plus to have such lower margins . Also , there are things you can do to mitigate : you can change SB firms , more and more are starting up - take advantage of that , you can of course publish their sins right here ! They fear nothing more than losing face !

5)Brokers are far from perfect , they can be just as useless . remember there are staffed by frustrated idiots who want to do what you do ! but ain't got the goolies for it . so they will mess you up at the drop of a hat . I have experienced: charts with only line charts and NO indicators whatsoever and for INTRADAY only !

So much for brokers having best software.

6) All of us with SBs would love to 5x our SU capital , anyone who says otherwise is a liar !

Therefore our small guy has a lot to teach us - the subtle art of supersizing profits and maximising leverage with small capital -the essense of great trading.

7) your so called big trader , well what can he teach us ? do we want 30% from our less than 10k stake or 400% ?!

the answer is as obvious as a 10 ton truck running us over.

8) Why does a man with 100's of 1000's want to trade for himself ?
why not put some in a highyield bond fund and give the rest to some of the best futures fund managers around ? like in the IASG rankings ??

Are they really saying that they believe they can beat the returns those top managers are getting ?

Fantasy isn't it ? and that really is it , right ? It is out of a VANITY and FANTASY that they want to trade , for a need to show others and themselves that they are SOMEONE in this world .

Same reason they post here .

SAD , SAD , SAD .
 

sidinuk

Established member
624 5
3) We have to use SB firms because the margins are so much smaller . So $10 on the Dow would be margined at 250 x bet = $2500 . A similar size bet on the emini dow would margin you at $10,000 per contract !


IB actually charge an initial margin of $1,350 per contract intraday for the mini dow. So 2 contracts (2x$5) is $2,700. Maintenance magin required intraday is then only $1,000 per contract. So for intraday trading the margin requirements are similar for SB or IB. Not sure what effect that has on your 'argument'.


Also where do you get the 'fact' that 90% of members have less than 10,000 in funds? I don't remember ever being asked.
 

neil

Legendary member
5,167 747
sidinuk said:



IB actually charge an initial margin of $1,350 per contract intraday for the mini dow. So 2 contracts (2x$5) is $2,700. Maintenance magin required intraday is then only $1,000 per contract. So for intraday trading the margin requirements are similar for SB or IB. Not sure what effect that has on your 'argument'.


And spreads are a completely different ball game with IB.

Dax is half a point for example - and no "bias" as is oft complained about by spread bettors.
 

ivorm

Well-known member
293 1
--Dax is half a point for example - and no "bias" as is oft complained about by spread bettors --

Hi Neil,

Do u know what the margin is on IB for Dax contracts ?

TIA
 

jonnyy40

Experienced member
1,329 11
Initial 5162.95(Euros),Maintenance 4143.97
 

mma

1
233 0
* IB actually charge an initial margin of $1,350 per contract intraday for the mini dow. So 2 contracts (2x$5) is $2,700. *

The numbers I used was from refco , IB are net only , if something goes wrong - very difficult to get hold of someone , could be dangerous if you are stuck with a big losing position.

I also cannot find where the emini dow is for your figures . Even going by that you would have to double your figure of $2,700 which = $5,400 for a $10 bet , more than 2x the SB rate ( since I am talking about overnight margins not piddly intraday stuff ) .

Also , SB's quote out of hours , which brokers DO NOT , which could be HUGELY problematics due to large price gaps betwen close and open .

* I don't remember ever being asked. *

No need to ask, I knew you would classify yourself as a big swinging you know what , but I am willing to bet that NOT more than 600 members trade with start up of more than 10k quid.

* Dax is half a point for example - and no "bias" as is oft complained about by spread bettors *

Silly - nobody complains about a 4 point SB spread on the DAX when the effective o/night margin is more than 3 times LESS than the broker rate .

Bias as a trading handicap is overrated , can sometimes be an ADVANTAGE .

Edited,ChartMan
 
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neil

Legendary member
5,167 747
Sigh

OK MMA - trade what you like - forgot you are always right !!

I'd better not mention that I ,and Trader333, for example have got through to IB by phone very quickly: plus an email to them today answered within minutes

:cry: :rolleyes:
 

The General

Active member
199 16
MMA,

Just got to take you up on the comment 'Piddling Intraday Stuff'.

Seems Larry Williams traded purely intyraday when turning his 10k into 1.2Mio.

Perhaps you should respect other's opinions.....

The General. :confused:
 

CityTrader

Established member
665 26
Re: " BIG TRADERS " = Irrelevant ?

mma said:
Fact : Circa 90% of readers here trade with start up capital of less 10,000 .

.

Sorry, I must have been away when they did the poll ( presumeably ) titled " How much did you start with? and no cheating please" Still I would love to see the actuall numbers. perhaps you could forward the link to me mma?
 

stevem12

Active member
135 1
"Also , SB's quote out of hours , which brokers DO NOT , which could be HUGELY problematics due to large price gaps betwen close and open ."

Ever heard of Globalex??

What do you think SB`s base a lot of their overnight prices on??
 

mma

1
233 0
* OK MMA - trade what you like - forgot you are always right !!
I'd better not mention that I ,and Trader333, for example have got through to IB by phone very quickly: plus an email to them today answered within minutes *

They call this false victim syndrome when one feels as though one has lost , one feigns victimhood to get support.

the second part is irrelevant , THE POINT HERE IS THE MOST PEOPLE HAVE MORE TO LEARN FROM THE SUCCESSFUL SMALL TRADER THAN THE WOULD BE bsd .

* Larry W *

Good only confirms the above .


* Still I would love to see the actuall numbers. perhaps you could forward the link to me mma? *

yeh , * right * and 6,000 people are going to answer ? naive ! but I stick to what I say . This is a SB board remember not a BSD one .

If you like to think of yourself as one then this is the wrong board for you , on that criteria.


* Globex *

globex only for US markets , what about eurex , ftse ??
They sure not 24 hours . And it's GloBEX not globalex . And you wonder why ?
 
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CityTrader

Established member
665 26
mma said:
*
* Still I would love to see the actuall numbers. perhaps you could forward the link to me mma? *

yeh , * right * and 6,000 people are going to answer ? naive ! but I stick to what I say . This is a SB board remember not a BSD one .

.

Naive???????? you make up statistics at random, and don't expect anyone to question it? and you call me naive? Oh dear, you really should take a look in the mirror.....
 
 
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