best route to becoming a trader in the city (london)

thanks for the advice christopher. it's good to get a view from someone who's actually doing a finance course. don't think i'll bother with that then.

1. just out of interest why do so many traders have a physics background? i can't make the connection. is it because they're good at using/solving formulas and equations?

2. i've recently read up on the basics of spreadbetting from a website which i found easy to understand. is there a website that teaches the basics of trading from scratch in laymans terms?

many thanks. this thread has helped me a great deal especially as i am a realist and am under no illusions.

Physics is one of the toughest (mathematically speaking) subjects that you can do. It also gives you skills in modelling and programming that are useful in trading. However, I think that Masquerade probably emphasised the Physics thing a little too strongly if anything. There are plenty of traders who didnt study physics :D

Your enthusiasm is fantastic and will stand you in good stead as you start off in this journey to becoming a trader. If you are serious about it then you now need to turn your attention to the following steps, which detail my opinion about how a beginner should proceed into the trading world. :D

1. Reading: You need to read quite a few books, although you can partially make up for this with reading the best posts on here. Different people will recommend different books, but hopefully most would agree that the list might involve the following:

Market Wizards 1 & 2, Trading in the zone, technical analysis of the financial markets, other people will add to this. Also read "the financial spread betting guidebook" if you decide to go down the SB route. You maybe need to set aside a couple of hundred quid for these books (maybe look out for second hand?), but dont worry, think of this couple of hundred quid as money you would have lost if you had gone steaming in anyway, (I know I did, as will the guy who kept buying HBOS yesterday but didnt know why).

2. Personalisation: You will need at some point to make some decisions about:

* What instrument(s) you want to trade: FX, equities, bonds, futures, etc etc. I am biased towards FX but you need to decide for yourself.
* What time frame you want to trade on. This is an important one. Do you want to sit in front of your screen all day (short time frames) or do you want to just trade for an hour or so at the end of the day (long term trendfollowing). The shorter the time frame, the more potential there is for higher profit, but it is probably harder to do and definitely more time consuming. You could "swing trade" which means that you would be doing something in between, and holding your positions for a few days.
* How are you going to place the trades? Spread betting may be a good option for you.

3. Getting to grips with the market: Once step 2 is done, you need to learn everything about your specific market. This means getting a data-feed, (free for FX, maybe not for others unless end of day), and studying the market movements. Look at the way the moving averages behave, look at the general behaviour of the market. What is driving the price? What (if anthing) can give you a good indication of what it may do? What effect does unexpected news have on the price?

4. Developing a methodology: Not a rigid mechanical system, but a methodology. Look at some very basic ones, eg. Can the 10 period MA crossing the 50 period MA tell you anything? At this point you will start to get some ideas about what may work. Write them down in as much detail as possible. Write down: entry criteria, exit criteria etc. Then you can move on to step 5.

5. Paper trading: (trading under real conditions with non-real money). This is your chance to put some of the systems you found in part 4 into practise. Even when paper trading, take it seriously, stick to the methodology and record the result. Remember, if a trade loses money, it want a bad trade unless you cant justify why you did it. If it was part of your methodology, it was a great trade.

6. Real trading. Only proceed to stage 6, when you are consistently profitable at stage 5. You should have a clearly defined methodology that you are pretty sure has a positive ecpectancy over a large number of trades.


Note that the only things that you should be paying money for at any stage are books and possibly data. No miracle systems, no signal generators, no nothing.

Take your time with steps 1, 2, 3, 4, they are important and will save you money later on. The quicker you rush through these early steps the more you will lose later. Steps 1-4 may take you up to 4 to 6 months of hard work, its worth it. Step 5 should take the same again really. Then you can move onto step 6 after a year or so with the confidance to succeed and you may be one of the few who is a winner from the start!!

I really hope that this helps you, I wouldnt normally write such a detailed reply to anyone but for some reason from reading your posts I felt like helping you out.

In return I want you to introduce me to 5 dirty air hostesses who are up for a gangbang.

Good luck mate

Chris
 
Why pay chocolate, get sponsored ... Try to make it to STA for instance, training program or FUTEX???? This is Disney London.....

I personally don’t think that University of London distance program will help him get a job in an IB (you need more than that).
By the time he will finish the course he will be around 31.

But then again maybe I am wrong.
 
One quick word... you keep saying that Spread betting is Interesting etc. etc.. .... perhaps you need to look around at some of the other posts on this site before entering into this as a first option...

BE Warned... SB can seriously damage your wealth.... quickly.... dont want to lecture you etc... I am sure you are more than capable of looking after yourself ... but this is why you ask the questions of others who might have a bit of experience...
 
normbeef i don't intend to dive straight into spreadbetting, as i know from others the losses can be big. i was just pointing out that this is the first aspect of trading i had learnt about.....and found it interesting.

Christopher i appreciate that post must've taken you some to write and can honestly say i will start working through those points right away - thanks for the advice.

I couldn't encourage this gangbang because i'm going for promotion at work and this would be unprofessional and seriously jeopardise my chances. However, one good deed deserves another, so i'm going to give you some insider knowledge:

Go long the crew night on Tuesday, it's a bullish market.

If you're intent on meeting a **** load of air hostesses (and who'd blame you), then go to a place called Bar Med in Crawley (Gatwick) on Tuesday nights. It's crew night so it's full of hosties but is also open to the rest of the public. Bring a broom though, as you'll clean up....figuratively speaking.
 
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read a few books, open up a spread betting account, trade £1/point and see how u like it. trading sounds glamorous (and it is if u r making it big) but its definetly not for everybody.
 
If you got enough money any arcade will be happy to sign you on.

Many charge you £1000-2000 desk fees per month.

50/50 profit split. Often the losses only go out of your half to start with.

If you know how to trade you can run the same setup arcade has for much lower cost.

The training provided might not turn you into a profitable trader. Additional charge for training likely.

Baldur
 
50/50 profit split.... ????
+ charging the guy, THATS JUST WRONG
 
You know... it's quite depressing to read that most trader's careers end at 33. I'm on the other side of 33 and I've had my best year spreadbetting the markets so far! I'm enjoying it more, becoming more patient, disciplined, methodical and developing my knowledge more and more yet I'm supposed to have crashed and burned years ago. :eek: WoooW! Not only that, but my maths is barely above pass level: Tell me to answer e.g., 35X54/7+16/6 in less than 30 seconds and I'll say "goodnight". So, by no means am I one of those maths whizz kids. Yet, plenty of the guys they actually hire couldn't last a month's trading!

It's so very, very unfair/ridiculous how the selection process actually goes for banks. I've learned through experience that being average at maths is by no means a weakness at all. But just try telling that to the HR dept. of any bank! :whistling Moreover, if anyone's excellent at maths but poor at probabilities I'd say such a person has a very good chance of being an absolutely useless trader. It's a great shame really, as I too would love to have been a salaried trader. The one thing though is that, although my maths is decidedly average, my estimation for probabilities is excellent. I am also a very good backgammon player - a game where a mastery of probabilities is essential. And if I didn't give away so many tells (including blushing) I'd also be spending time at my nearest poker den...

(Sidenote: hmmm just thinking too that I'm not at all envious of the OP's banging the so called "fit birds" on his airline - as I've scarcely seen a fit hostess in years. Unless, that is, you're working for singapore airlines where, admittedly, the fitness factor is at least reasonably acceptable from time to time. :LOL:)
 
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i'm absolutely hopeless at maths and i'm currently working as a trader (and have been salaried trader in the past). being good at maths has very little to do with most trading. if u r spread betting and / or trading futures then how difficult could it be to calculate what price u buy something and sell something. However, if u work for an investment bank and need to calculate yields and maturities from CDS levels then that is another story...i guess. I think that the main reason why many firms ask u to do a numeracy test is because they are overwhelmed with applications and need to narrow the field considerably.
 
Is there anyone that has recently completed the STA trading course ? I am due to do the course soon and would be grateful of any info/advice.
 
IB employs the best poeple and minds in the country, yet they make big losses. To be a A* and 1st material, you have to sleep with your books and be a nerd who gets bullied by poeple like me.
Education ,education education its just there, nothing helpful in doing certain job. 90% of the learning is done on the field.
the main rules of trading are the same as poker etc. - money management.
 
Do you know what a trading role involves? A lot of the traders at investment banks and funds have physics backgrounds. So it'd probably be a pretty good idea to get some A levels - Maths is essential and you need an A grade (anything less and they won't look at your application.) I know, i'm speaking from experience here on that topic. So you'll need 320 UCAS points minimum or ABB (to you and I.) Then you'll have to go to a good university and get a good degree (possibly in physics) then to make sure you can get a job you'll need a PhD in Physics. Then you'll have little difficulty in becoming a trader.

But is that worth it to you? I don't quite understand how it was a career you were always interested in, but didn't bother doing some research about it until 3 hours ago.

A PhD in Physics!? You make trading sound like Rocket Science or something.
 
IB employs the best poeple and minds in the country, yet they make big losses. To be a A* and 1st material, you have to sleep with your books and be a nerd who gets bullied by poeple like me.


you really do have no idea. What exactly is your first statement based on? the recent write-downs? the banks have been able to take these 'losses' as they have been virtually printing money for the past x years. if you're a trader at some point you will make a loss-markets evolve.

and as for the last statement-what a joke. you certainly do not have to be a nerd and bully away mate-i have a job.
 
IB employs the best poeple and minds in the country, yet they make big losses. To be a A* and 1st material, you have to sleep with your books and be a nerd who gets bullied by poeple like me.
Education ,education education its just there, nothing helpful in doing certain job. 90% of the learning is done on the field.
the main rules of trading are the same as poker etc. - money management.

Could you stop being so negative the whole time....it is really starting to be quite annoying.

There are so many reasons why education is valuable, it is probably because you don't know what those reasons are that you didn't do so well at uni.

I would like to see you try to bully me mate; I got a first, didn't sleep with my books and still had a great time at uni. I didn't go to a lecture until year 3, so it is possible; just not with an attitude like yours!!!
 
Thats why all the IB's have lost """HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS""" ... its because they are sooooo clever with their poxy PHD's ..

I have worked in the CITY with some of these dick*eads... (financial types) There is nothing clever about buying toxic waste thinking the Boom would never end.... idiots....

I saw it coming ... it was obvious to me that the game was up... and I never had an A level... and my degree was in Architecture.... lol

Read Fooled by Randomness.... just to get some perspective on these so called "experts"...
 
so you must have made a f*cking fortune then did you?

even if they have lost HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS i suspect their phd's got them a whacking great salary.
 
What's with all the IB bashing??? It's their money, they can use it to pay whoever they want! If they want to pay über-achievers, more power to their elbow! So what if they don't want to pay you, you think you deserve a job??

Look mate, there are thousands upon thousands of graduates, MBA's, PhD's etc... all joining the back of the IB queue. Getting the entry requirements does not entitle you to a job anywhere - any reasonable person will judge that it is unlikely they will get one of these so sought after roles. If it's a job in a legacy IB, living like Bud Fox or those guys in American Psycho you want, give it up. No chance.

If you want to be a trader, there are many other ways to make it happen. IB's do not hold all the cards, they just have the most chips. Standing in the IB line, comparitively under-qualified, and with a sh!tty attitude isn't going to get you anywhere.

However, there is a strong case that the lack of initiative and resourcefulness you have displayed speaks volumes about your potential in finance anyway. If you really want to be a trader, you will find a way. If you need it spelling out to you, perhaps you should consider another industry.
 
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