Are investment banks really just etonian old boys clubs?

[BadManners]

Are they?

I have a massive interest in trading, when I was 15 I won an 'online fantasy trading game' and after that I started trading in real money. I only made 4 trades and due to limited capital and all the taxes I ended up only making a profit of around £250. It basically wasn't worth the effort and while still being at school I thought it would be better if I didn't focus on that. Also the way I traded I would never dream of doing now.

I'm now at Loughborough doing a Masters in Electronic Engineering, it's a top uni for my course, and fantastic for sport. I get to train with world record holders, and world champions each day - a great experience. I will probably never make it that far, but it really is great that I get this sort of opportunity. It really changed my life when I met these athletes. I had been admiring them for so long that I thought they were super human, but when I started hearing them talk, seeing what they do and chatting to them in the changing rooms etc I realised that they are actually just normal people like me. Why can't I do something special? It sounds cheesy but I don't think many people are fortunate enough to have that sort of experience.

Yet when I say to people (usually on internet forums) that I'm looking at a career in an Investment Bank I basically get laughed at. Loughborough isn't good enough. I need to go to a Oxbridge, LSE or a London Uni. "There is no smoke without fire" so is this true?

It seems to me that it is ridiculous to base applicant assessment criteria on 'what university they went to'.

Admittedly I don't know much about the various roles in IB or prop firms. From initial research it seems like a prop firm would be better suited for me.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

For their graddy training schemes, IB's can recruit from the global rather than national cohort + most (actually all but one) of the grads I've met in the last 10 years have also had a relavent masters, again from a top-tier.

This is, at least in part, because IB's receive literally hundreds of speculative cv's a day (500-1500 is the usual range given by hr bods) from kids who want to be traders.

Tbh, and wrt IB's, it's quite rare (again, struggling to think of one atm) to meet the architypal public schoolboy on the graddy schemes.

 

[gooseman]

i'm finding that a lot of the traders I come across have a relevant qualification and more and more are coming from the continent. Their educational systems seem much more vocational and suited to a career in finance than the UK system. Plus you have the fact that the government have now managed to devalue GCSE's, A-levels and are trying to get every man and his dog through uni. I have an engineering degree from a red brick (not oxbridge) with a sports background. I think the sports thing should set you in good stead to be honest.

as someone mentioned before the stereotypical public schoolboys tend to head to the investment/m&a side of banking rather than trading.

for trading it really is aptitude and intelligence added to a track record of application.

 

[Magos]

Are they?

I have a massive interest in trading, when I was 15 I won an 'online fantasy trading game' and after that I started trading in real money. I only made 4 trades and due to limited capital and all the taxes I ended up only making a profit of around £250. It basically wasn't worth the effort and while still being at school I thought it would be better if I didn't focus on that. Also the way I traded I would never dream of doing now.

I'm now at Loughborough doing a Masters in Electronic Engineering, it's a top uni for my course, and fantastic for sport. I get to train with world record holders, and world champions each day - a great experience. I will probably never make it that far, but it really is great that I get this sort of opportunity. It really changed my life when I met these athletes. I had been admiring them for so long that I thought they were super human, but when I started hearing them talk, seeing what they do and chatting to them in the changing rooms etc I realised that they are actually just normal people like me. Why can't I do something special? It sounds cheesy but I don't think many people are fortunate enough to have that sort of experience.

Yet when I say to people (usually on internet forums) that I'm looking at a career in an Investment Bank I basically get laughed at. Loughborough isn't good enough. I need to go to a Oxbridge, LSE or a London Uni. "There is no smoke without fire" so is this true?

It seems to me that it is ridiculous to base applicant assessment criteria on 'what university they went to'.

Admittedly I don't know much about the various roles in IB or prop firms. From initial research it seems like a prop firm would be better suited for me.

Let me make it easy for you

University guide | EducationGuardian.co.uk

Loughborough top 14 University for Electronic and Electrical Engineering

Overall Loughborough is top 10


Therefore Oxford number 1, Cambridge number 2, LSE number 3 overall.

so if you had to choose you will always choose someone from top 3

 

[BadManners]

Let me make it easy for you

University guide | EducationGuardian.co.uk

Loughborough top 14 University for Electronic and Electrical Engineering

Overall Loughborough is top 10


Therefore Oxford number 1, Cambridge number 2, LSE number 3 overall.

so if you had to choose you will always choose someone from top 3

League tables change each year. Last year Loughborough was 6th overall and I think 5th for Elec Eng.

But what if I went to Loughborough for other reasons? Like the sport, there are no world class athletes anywhere else, the engineering degree is good with good links with industry incase I decide I don't want to pursue a career in 'trading'. I can't throw all my eggs in one basket. I can't just decide right I'm going to work for JP Morgan, I might not get a job there, or I might get one and turn out not good enough. I can't pin all my hopes on becoming an Olympic Champion, I can't make a living out of my sport even if I did end up that good and I might not get there anyway. Loughborough seemed to me like the best option.

 

[Magos]

League tables change each year. Last year Loughborough was 6th overall and I think 5th for Elec Eng.

But what if I went to Loughborough for other reasons? Like the sport, there are no world class athletes anywhere else, the engineering degree is good with good links with industry incase I decide I don't want to pursue a career in 'trading'. I can't throw all my eggs in one basket. I can't just decide right I'm going to work for JP Morgan, I might not get a job there, or I might get one and turn out not good enough. I can't pin all my hopes on becoming an Olympic Champion, I can't make a living out of my sport even if I did end up that good and I might not get there anyway. Loughborough seemed to me like the best option.

Try to listen BADMANNERS. Electronic Engineering is not an Economics degree is that understood. If you love your profession become a successful Electronic Engineer and stop blaming everyone for your degree and university.


Winners always find a way.

Look the IB’s do it that way, if you think you can change the mentality and the way they think, go for it.

That’s all from me

 

[29Investments]

As recently as 2006 I was employed by JP Morgan Chase and sat on the Graduate Intake Selection comittee. We obviously were influenced by the fact that people had attended good universities but unless you want to be a Quant the way you conduct yourself at interview had far more bearing on your selection chances than anything else.

 

[BadManners]

Try to listen BADMANNERS. Electronic Engineering is not an Economics degree is that understood. If you love your profession become a successful Electronic Engineer and stop blaming everyone for your degree and university.


Winners always find a way.

Look the IB’s do it that way, if you think you can change the mentality and the way they think, go for it.

That’s all from me

Where am I blaming other people for my degree or university? I chose to come here? I just think it's stupid if any company in any industry selected exclusively from certain unis. That's what you'd call an 'old boys club' isn't it?

 

[Magos]

Where am I blaming other people for my degree or university? I chose to come here? I just think it's stupid if any company in any industry selected exclusively from certain unis. That's what you'd call an 'old boys club' isn't it?

You can always have exceptions but in the end of the day is an 'old boys club'

Try checking out the board of directors of the biggest IB's and the nationalities of the top guys + there education / university and qualifications.

Then you can understand how the system works

Finally,

did you do any internships ? to IB / trading house / retail bank (atleast) / IT ???
do you read the FT every day ?
do you read the Economist ?
do you know how many people are getting fired every week in the city?

Try asking yourself these questions.

 

[ns1000]

Without debating the merits of each establishment, you chose to go to Loughborough because you like sport and Electronic engineering. Others may have chosen to go to Oxbridge or LSE because they wanted to work in an IB.

Whether it's fair or not IBs will play the numbers game. What's the probablity of getting a muppet from Oxbridge?

Do you want to be a trader or work for an IB? If you genuinely want to be a trader, you don't need to work for Goldman Sachs. If you want to work for a large IB, then you have to accept that their candidate profile might not match you