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victorious
Junior member
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cellar link
well.. cellar link or eamonn egan, this is what can happen when you sue a public forum:
2Clix scores own goal with Whirlpool case - Communications - News - ZDNet Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2Clix_Software
well.. cellar link or eamonn egan, this is what can happen when you sue a public forum:
2Clix scores own goal with Whirlpool case - Communications - News - ZDNet Australia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2Clix_Software
Last edited:
Re: cellar link
That's a perfect example of what happens when you try to censor the Internet. People just get more annoyed about it and post the information more widely. Still it doesn't stop the idiots trying.
well.. cellar link or eamonn egan, this is what can happen when you sue a public forum:
2Clix scores own goal with Whirlpool case - Communications - News - ZDNet Australia
2Clix Software - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That's a perfect example of what happens when you try to censor the Internet. People just get more annoyed about it and post the information more widely. Still it doesn't stop the idiots trying.
5 years ago I bought a small portfolio from APW. I fell for the sales pitch sadly. Earlier this year I wanted to sell my collection as I needed the money and that my 5 years storage would be up in December 2011. In March I sold the better part of my collection. It represented about 30% of my totally outlay. I was not entirley happy with the price but I agreed. It took four months and countless phone calls and emails before the cheque arrived.
Now I need to sell the remainder of the collection but so far I have been unable to speak or get anyone to return my calls. My 'free' storage expires next month and I will not be paying a penny more to keep my wine.
What are my options here? I feel as though I may as well just write it off and tick another box on my idiot list. I would value your opinions though.
Cheers.
KS
If your wine is in Australia, go and pick it up from the storage place (in Sydney probably either WineArk or Wine vault). Take it to langton's auctioneers (sydney or Melb) and sell it. That is most likely what APW did with the 1st batch. These companies do not have any magic solution for your wine. All they are doing is sending it to auction and taking a fee for it! If you want to see what your wine is worth, Langtons have a section called "wine tools" and under this heading is "price guide". Values will be close to what you will get. Langtons are owned by Woolworths so 100% reputable.
Re: APW Australia Portfolio Wines and Cellarlink
Hi Guys,
Some forums have a download feature for threads but Trade2win doesn't appear to have that facility. (at least I can't find it). But I have saved the entire thread.
The quickest way to save the thread without a lot of work is as follows:
After you have logged in do the following
Next:
Each page will be saved as a webpage but on your PC which you can still access though your browser even if the thread disappears.
If it does I will create a forum on my website where you can continue if you wish. What I will also do is put a copy of this thread on my website now.
Isn't the internet great a venue for all levels of people not just the big monied bullies. (Not all people who have money are bullies just the one who have who think because of this they can use it to throw their weight around) that no-one can stop.
Cheers
Wilf.
Hi Guys,
Some forums have a download feature for threads but Trade2win doesn't appear to have that facility. (at least I can't find it). But I have saved the entire thread.
The quickest way to save the thread without a lot of work is as follows:
After you have logged in do the following
- Click on "Settings"
- Find "Settings and Options" (On the left of page)
- Click on "Edit Options"
- Go Down the page until you find "Thread Display Options"
- Under "Number of Posts to Show Per Page" set to "40" This will reduce the number of pages you have to save to 3.
- Save the options.
Next:
- Go to the APW thread
- Make sure you are on the first page
- In your browser window click on "File" (I use Firefox but it should be the same for Internet explorer
- In the drop down window left click on "save page as"
- Save the page as for example "APW-thread1"
- Select the next page, repeat above and name "APW-thread2"
- Continue for the last page.
Each page will be saved as a webpage but on your PC which you can still access though your browser even if the thread disappears.
If it does I will create a forum on my website where you can continue if you wish. What I will also do is put a copy of this thread on my website now.
Isn't the internet great a venue for all levels of people not just the big monied bullies. (Not all people who have money are bullies just the one who have who think because of this they can use it to throw their weight around) that no-one can stop.
Cheers
Wilf.
Last edited:
There seems to be a bit of confusion about selling your wine investment wine.
As far as I know, none of the wine investment companies have ever tried to "market" your wine.
What they do is send your wine to an auction house and take a commisison for doing this.
There is nothing stopping you from using the same auction house. This way you will get accurate estimates of what your wine is worth and you will get paid!
Langton's - Australia is owed by Woolworths and have a Sydney and Melbourne office
Langton's - Price Guide will show you what your wine is worth.
If your wine is "apparently" overseas, I would walk away from it.
As far as I know, none of the wine investment companies have ever tried to "market" your wine.
What they do is send your wine to an auction house and take a commisison for doing this.
There is nothing stopping you from using the same auction house. This way you will get accurate estimates of what your wine is worth and you will get paid!
Langton's - Australia is owed by Woolworths and have a Sydney and Melbourne office
Langton's - Price Guide will show you what your wine is worth.
If your wine is "apparently" overseas, I would walk away from it.
victorious
Junior member
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- 0
cellar link
Hi wineghost,
Thanks a lot for the advise.
btw, cellar link sue some of us because we walked away from it as the wine is "apparently" overseas.
While in regard to the forwarded cellar link's email below,
1. I notified cellar link prior 24th December 2010 (and i have fully paid until end of 2010), that i want to walk away from it and told them not to charge my credit card. they still try to charge my credit card, and charge me dishonor fee (because i obviously cancelled the credit card).
2. As you can see at their email below:
- my account has been suspended (indeed i can't access my wines anymore)
- my wines no longer insured
- all wines shall be cleared at no reserve
i have no problem with number 2, as that's what i want (walk away from it). but now nearly 1 year latter, cellar link sue me and demand payment for:
- full fees including the insurance fee and portal subscription fees (i was already suspended from the portal, and they said the wine is no longer insured)
- dishonor fees (not only one, as they tried multiple times)
- interest
- filling fee
- service fee
- anything else i may missed out.
where is the justice here? Anyone has any inputs on this?
also, according to the cellar link's email, they're actually trying to sell the wines, but i've never ever received any money from cellar link.
Thank you very much.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
xxth January 2011
Dear xxx,
Cellar Link Account Name: xxx
Cellar Link Account ID: xxx
Amount Due: $xxx
We refer to our previous communication of 24th December 2010, where we informed you that we had issued the invoices below and the amount payable was due. We would like to inform you that we were unable to withdraw the amount due from your nominated credit card or bank account on the 4th January 2011 as the payment was dishonoured. Please note a $40 dishonour fee has also been applied to your account.
Invoices due:
Storage 2011, by Location (quarterly or annually as applicable to your module)
Brokerage listing fee (as applicable to your module)
Global Wine Management Portal (GWMP) subscription fee (as applicable to your module)
All of the above are available now on the Global Wine Management Portal. Once logged in, you can view the PDF invoice(s) by selecting 'my finances' and then 'statement of account'.
Please note if your account is overdue, your account is immediately suspended and therefore your wines will not be insured (Refer to clause 14.5 in Cellar Link’s Terms & Conditions) and we will not be able to process sales in your account.
Any account remaining unpaid, shall without further notice be subject to a lien on all its stock, whereby stock shall be cleared at no reserve. (Clause 12 in Cellar Link’s Terms & Conditions).
If you have paid your outstanding account before this email reaches you, please disregard this notice.
We would also like to remind you that:
Trade Sales Payments
Proceeds for sales that have occurred up until the 3lst December 2010 will be remitted commencing the 28th of January, 2011. As we remit quarterly, for sales that have occurred after the 3lst December 2010, the remittance will be received by clients in the next trade sale payout period on the 28th April 2011. At the same time that we remit the funds to our clients, an invoice will be uploaded on to your account which will detail the specifics of the sales that have been transacted on your behalf, such as the price the wine was sold for, any taxes etc.
In order that payments and debits are always made to you on time, please ensure we have up-to-date credit card and bank details on file for you.
If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Service Team on 1300 270 110 or +61 2 8622 5000 (if overseas) during office hours 9am-5pm AEST.
Yours sincerely,
Eamonn P. Egan Sig
Cellar Link Pty Ltd
Eamonn Egan
Managing Director
ABN: 45 132 635 842
Hi wineghost,
Thanks a lot for the advise.
btw, cellar link sue some of us because we walked away from it as the wine is "apparently" overseas.
While in regard to the forwarded cellar link's email below,
1. I notified cellar link prior 24th December 2010 (and i have fully paid until end of 2010), that i want to walk away from it and told them not to charge my credit card. they still try to charge my credit card, and charge me dishonor fee (because i obviously cancelled the credit card).
2. As you can see at their email below:
- my account has been suspended (indeed i can't access my wines anymore)
- my wines no longer insured
- all wines shall be cleared at no reserve
i have no problem with number 2, as that's what i want (walk away from it). but now nearly 1 year latter, cellar link sue me and demand payment for:
- full fees including the insurance fee and portal subscription fees (i was already suspended from the portal, and they said the wine is no longer insured)
- dishonor fees (not only one, as they tried multiple times)
- interest
- filling fee
- service fee
- anything else i may missed out.
where is the justice here? Anyone has any inputs on this?
also, according to the cellar link's email, they're actually trying to sell the wines, but i've never ever received any money from cellar link.
Thank you very much.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
xxth January 2011
Dear xxx,
Cellar Link Account Name: xxx
Cellar Link Account ID: xxx
Amount Due: $xxx
We refer to our previous communication of 24th December 2010, where we informed you that we had issued the invoices below and the amount payable was due. We would like to inform you that we were unable to withdraw the amount due from your nominated credit card or bank account on the 4th January 2011 as the payment was dishonoured. Please note a $40 dishonour fee has also been applied to your account.
Invoices due:
Storage 2011, by Location (quarterly or annually as applicable to your module)
Brokerage listing fee (as applicable to your module)
Global Wine Management Portal (GWMP) subscription fee (as applicable to your module)
All of the above are available now on the Global Wine Management Portal. Once logged in, you can view the PDF invoice(s) by selecting 'my finances' and then 'statement of account'.
Please note if your account is overdue, your account is immediately suspended and therefore your wines will not be insured (Refer to clause 14.5 in Cellar Link’s Terms & Conditions) and we will not be able to process sales in your account.
Any account remaining unpaid, shall without further notice be subject to a lien on all its stock, whereby stock shall be cleared at no reserve. (Clause 12 in Cellar Link’s Terms & Conditions).
If you have paid your outstanding account before this email reaches you, please disregard this notice.
We would also like to remind you that:
Trade Sales Payments
Proceeds for sales that have occurred up until the 3lst December 2010 will be remitted commencing the 28th of January, 2011. As we remit quarterly, for sales that have occurred after the 3lst December 2010, the remittance will be received by clients in the next trade sale payout period on the 28th April 2011. At the same time that we remit the funds to our clients, an invoice will be uploaded on to your account which will detail the specifics of the sales that have been transacted on your behalf, such as the price the wine was sold for, any taxes etc.
In order that payments and debits are always made to you on time, please ensure we have up-to-date credit card and bank details on file for you.
If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Service Team on 1300 270 110 or +61 2 8622 5000 (if overseas) during office hours 9am-5pm AEST.
Yours sincerely,
Eamonn P. Egan Sig
Cellar Link Pty Ltd
Eamonn Egan
Managing Director
ABN: 45 132 635 842
Last edited:
Kangaroostu
Newbie
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- 0
If your wine is in Australia, go and pick it up from the storage place (in Sydney probably either WineArk or Wine vault). Take it to langton's auctioneers (sydney or Melb) and sell it. That is most likely what APW did with the 1st batch. These companies do not have any magic solution for your wine. All they are doing is sending it to auction and taking a fee for it! If you want to see what your wine is worth, Langtons have a section called "wine tools" and under this heading is "price guide". Values will be close to what you will get. Langtons are owned by Woolworths so 100% reputable.
No, it's in the UK. That doesn't prevent me from picking it up if only I could speak with someone to find out where/how. They don't call back or answer emails. Very frustrating.
Thanks for the response.
KS
Stormfront
Newbie
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No, it's in the UK. That doesn't prevent me from picking it up if only I could speak with someone to find out where/how. They don't call back or answer emails. Very frustrating.
Thanks for the response.
KS
Has anyone managed to retrieve some/all of their wine from the UK facility? I hadn't even considered the possibility that the wine does not exist.
Stormfront
Stormfront
Newbie
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Welcome Vicboner.
It's coming up to the end of year when Cellar Link will hit their clients with the annual storage/module fees again. Is everyone who are going to continue paying still in Module E?
Stormfront
It's coming up to the end of year when Cellar Link will hit their clients with the annual storage/module fees again. Is everyone who are going to continue paying still in Module E?
Stormfront
victorious
Junior member
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Re: cellar link
Hi Stormfront,
Unless you're lucky enough to be able to arrange for picking up the wines from cellar link London (while you live in Australia), in my opinion your best bet is to walk away from the wines. That's what I did end of last year, as I don't see any other way to exit from cellar link. Unless you want to pay the high price to have the wines send back from London to Australia, which I don't think it's worth it.
Anyway you've fully paid cellar link until the end of this year, so by not paying, cellar link theoretically will clear off your wine with no reserve within 6 weeks. So you shouldn't have any debt to cellar link.
But maybe someone else has a better suggestion?
Welcome Vicboner.
It's coming up to the end of year when Cellar Link will hit their clients with the annual storage/module fees again. Is everyone who are going to continue paying still in Module E?
Stormfront
Hi Stormfront,
Unless you're lucky enough to be able to arrange for picking up the wines from cellar link London (while you live in Australia), in my opinion your best bet is to walk away from the wines. That's what I did end of last year, as I don't see any other way to exit from cellar link. Unless you want to pay the high price to have the wines send back from London to Australia, which I don't think it's worth it.
Anyway you've fully paid cellar link until the end of this year, so by not paying, cellar link theoretically will clear off your wine with no reserve within 6 weeks. So you shouldn't have any debt to cellar link.
But maybe someone else has a better suggestion?
Re: cellar link
Bringing the wine back into the country would also attract taxes (WET and GST). Approx 41% of the value - the value is what you paid for the wine. You should have also received a rebate for these taxes when the wine left the country.
Hi Stormfront,
Unless you're lucky enough to be able to arrange for picking up the wines from cellar link London (while you live in Australia), in my opinion your best bet is to walk away from the wines. That's what I did end of last year, as I don't see any other way to exit from cellar link. Unless you want to pay the high price to have the wines send back from London to Australia, which I don't think it's worth it.
Anyway you've fully paid cellar link until the end of this year, so by not paying, cellar link theoretically will clear off your wine with no reserve within 6 weeks. So you shouldn't have any debt to cellar link.
But maybe someone else has a better suggestion?
Bringing the wine back into the country would also attract taxes (WET and GST). Approx 41% of the value - the value is what you paid for the wine. You should have also received a rebate for these taxes when the wine left the country.
Re: cellar link
Not quite true Victorious.
APB and consequently cellarlink will not do that as they have you in a bind. As we are now finding out they will not sell any wine (If it exists)to cover outstanding fees.
We know in my case they have now lodged a claim in the smalls claims court of NSW knowing that there is no way we can prove that the wine exists. If the fees outstanding are greater than that owed. (which they can make sure by just not selling the wine so that the amount owed grows). Even if you paid the fees owed they can still continue to charge you fees. How do you get your wine out if it is supposedly in Glasgow.
APW who initially set this up were quite canny creating this.
In essence you cannot forfeit your wine if they will not sell it even if it say they can do this in their rules.
Wilf.
Hi Stormfront,
Unless you're lucky enough to be able to arrange for picking up the wines from cellar link London (while you live in Australia), in my opinion your best bet is to walk away from the wines. That's what I did end of last year, as I don't see any other way to exit from cellar link. Unless you want to pay the high price to have the wines send back from London to Australia, which I don't think it's worth it.
Anyway you've fully paid cellar link until the end of this year, so by not paying, cellar link theoretically will clear off your wine with no reserve within 6 weeks. So you shouldn't have any debt to cellar link.
But maybe someone else has a better suggestion?
Not quite true Victorious.
APB and consequently cellarlink will not do that as they have you in a bind. As we are now finding out they will not sell any wine (If it exists)to cover outstanding fees.
We know in my case they have now lodged a claim in the smalls claims court of NSW knowing that there is no way we can prove that the wine exists. If the fees outstanding are greater than that owed. (which they can make sure by just not selling the wine so that the amount owed grows). Even if you paid the fees owed they can still continue to charge you fees. How do you get your wine out if it is supposedly in Glasgow.
APW who initially set this up were quite canny creating this.
In essence you cannot forfeit your wine if they will not sell it even if it say they can do this in their rules.
Wilf.
Re: cellar link
But what is there to stop you turning up in Glasgow and taking your wine (apart from logistics and the fact that it might not exist)?
Not quite true Victorious.
APB and consequently cellarlink will not do that as they have you in a bind. As we are now finding out they will not sell any wine (If it exists)to cover outstanding fees.
We know in my case they have now lodged a claim in the smalls claims court of NSW knowing that there is no way we can prove that the wine exists. If the fees outstanding are greater than that owed. (which they can make sure by just not selling the wine so that the amount owed grows). Even if you paid the fees owed they can still continue to charge you fees. How do you get your wine out if it is supposedly in Glasgow.
APW who initially set this up were quite canny creating this.
In essence you cannot forfeit your wine if they will not sell it even if it say they can do this in their rules.
Wilf.
But what is there to stop you turning up in Glasgow and taking your wine (apart from logistics and the fact that it might not exist)?
To Continue the saga.
I have received from the local court of NSW a Notice Of Listing - Pre Trial review.
(Does this make me a criminal certainly sounds it).
It says It is in my interest to attend for the review. If I am not present my defence may be struck out or other orders may be made detrimental to my case.
Now this is interesting.
The Local Court where all this is happening is in Sydney.
I am in Melbourne 800km away.
So what do I do. I cannot afford to go there.
Ofter reading a practice Note 2/2005 that they mentioned that I found no longer exists as it has been superseded by another 8 months ago. After a long time prowling around their website I final found it at:
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/local_courts/ll_localcourts.nsf/vwFiles/PNCiv1.pdf/$file/PNCiv1.pdf
In it I found that I was able to apply for the case to be moved as I am over 100km away from the local court.
Here is the relevant section.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Change of Venue
11.1 Unless the Court grants leave, a notice of motion seeking a change of venue under Part
8 of the UCPR is to be filed at the same time as the filing of the defence.
11.2 The motion is to specify the venue to which the applicant seeks the proceedings to be
changed and is to be supported by an affidavit addressing the matters contained in
UCPR r 8.2 and identifying the reasons upon which the applicant relies for the change of
the venue.
11.3 An application to change the venue to another court less than 100 kilometres from the
originating venue will not be granted unless exceptional circumstances are demonstrated.
11.4 The registrar will list the proceedings for either Pre-trial Review of Call-over within six
weeks. The registrar will send a notice of listing together with a copy of notice of motion
to change venue and the defence to all other active parties.
11.5 If the respondent objects to the change of venue the respondent may, within 14 days
from the date that the notice of listing was sent, file and serve an affidavit in response
outlining the reasons why the venue should not be changed.
11.6 Unless the court otherwise orders, a motion for change of venue will be determined by
any Magistrate or, where the proceedings are in the Small Claims Division, by a
Magistrate or Assessor after the lapse of 14 days from the date that the notice of listing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So if anyone else is caught up in a similar situation note this.
I will put in the paperwork even though it is too late and see what happens.
Wilf.
I have received from the local court of NSW a Notice Of Listing - Pre Trial review.
(Does this make me a criminal certainly sounds it).
It says It is in my interest to attend for the review. If I am not present my defence may be struck out or other orders may be made detrimental to my case.
Now this is interesting.
The Local Court where all this is happening is in Sydney.
I am in Melbourne 800km away.
So what do I do. I cannot afford to go there.
Ofter reading a practice Note 2/2005 that they mentioned that I found no longer exists as it has been superseded by another 8 months ago. After a long time prowling around their website I final found it at:
http://www.lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/local_courts/ll_localcourts.nsf/vwFiles/PNCiv1.pdf/$file/PNCiv1.pdf
In it I found that I was able to apply for the case to be moved as I am over 100km away from the local court.
Here is the relevant section.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Change of Venue
11.1 Unless the Court grants leave, a notice of motion seeking a change of venue under Part
8 of the UCPR is to be filed at the same time as the filing of the defence.
11.2 The motion is to specify the venue to which the applicant seeks the proceedings to be
changed and is to be supported by an affidavit addressing the matters contained in
UCPR r 8.2 and identifying the reasons upon which the applicant relies for the change of
the venue.
11.3 An application to change the venue to another court less than 100 kilometres from the
originating venue will not be granted unless exceptional circumstances are demonstrated.
11.4 The registrar will list the proceedings for either Pre-trial Review of Call-over within six
weeks. The registrar will send a notice of listing together with a copy of notice of motion
to change venue and the defence to all other active parties.
11.5 If the respondent objects to the change of venue the respondent may, within 14 days
from the date that the notice of listing was sent, file and serve an affidavit in response
outlining the reasons why the venue should not be changed.
11.6 Unless the court otherwise orders, a motion for change of venue will be determined by
any Magistrate or, where the proceedings are in the Small Claims Division, by a
Magistrate or Assessor after the lapse of 14 days from the date that the notice of listing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So if anyone else is caught up in a similar situation note this.
I will put in the paperwork even though it is too late and see what happens.
Wilf.
Re: cellar link
The logistic are part of the problem. We in Australia are the 17000 kilometres to Glasgow. The cost of this is probably more than the wine is worth.
But what is there to stop you turning up in Glasgow and taking your wine (apart from logistics and the fact that it might not exist)?
The logistic are part of the problem. We in Australia are the 17000 kilometres to Glasgow. The cost of this is probably more than the wine is worth.
Re: cellar link
I'm not suggesting you fly there, get someone to do it for you.
The logistic are part of the problem. We in Australia are the 17000 kilometres to Glasgow. The cost of this is probably more than the wine is worth.
I'm not suggesting you fly there, get someone to do it for you.
victorious
Junior member
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Re: cellar link
yeah.. it's a very unfortunate situation for us, it seems like we are trapped and unable to free ourself from cellar link. we already lost a lot on the wines, and now we cannot even let go the wines and move on (without paying very high price).
i wish you the best outcome for this case Wilf.
Not quite true Victorious.
APB and consequently cellarlink will not do that as they have you in a bind. As we are now finding out they will not sell any wine (If it exists)to cover outstanding fees.
We know in my case they have now lodged a claim in the smalls claims court of NSW knowing that there is no way we can prove that the wine exists. If the fees outstanding are greater than that owed. (which they can make sure by just not selling the wine so that the amount owed grows). Even if you paid the fees owed they can still continue to charge you fees. How do you get your wine out if it is supposedly in Glasgow.
APW who initially set this up were quite canny creating this.
In essence you cannot forfeit your wine if they will not sell it even if it say they can do this in their rules.
Wilf.
yeah.. it's a very unfortunate situation for us, it seems like we are trapped and unable to free ourself from cellar link. we already lost a lot on the wines, and now we cannot even let go the wines and move on (without paying very high price).
i wish you the best outcome for this case Wilf.
Stormfront
Newbie
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- 0
Anyone else noticed that after a number of days with the CL website having a notice saying they are due to reopen after a software overhaul, the whole website is now down?
Curious.
Curious.
victorious
Junior member
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- 0
Re: cellar link
i've just seen it. thanks for letting us know. yeah, it's interesting to know why cellar link doing the website maintenance at this time of the year when it's supposed to be the best time for selling wines.
i've just seen it. thanks for letting us know. yeah, it's interesting to know why cellar link doing the website maintenance at this time of the year when it's supposed to be the best time for selling wines.
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