Anyone know anything about Balancetrader?

[usul99]

I came across this site www.balancetrader.com. It looks like it's about market profile. Does anyone know if it's any good? I haven't been able to find much information about market profile but I really don't feel like getting scammed from another system vendor.

Any help would be great. Thanks.

 

[nine]

Yes.

Its a strategy to use the understanding one develops with Market Profile to generate entries and exits. The classic problem with MP is that it builds and understanding of markets but leaves one wondering what to do next. BT provides a set of options for what to do next. I believe it also provides message board and realtime support.

 

[usul99]

Yes.

Its a strategy to use the understanding one develops with Market Profile to generate entries and exits. The classic problem with MP is that it builds and understanding of markets but leaves one wondering what to do next. BT provides a set of options for what to do next. I believe it also provides message board and realtime support.

But do you know if the program is effective? Did you buy it? More importantly, does it work?

 

[nine]

Its not a program. Its a strategy for trading market profile.

I don't trade Market Profile. I have my own method and only bought it out of curiosity - one should always expand ones knowledge in this game. I could make money trading it.

 

[gado]

It seems the charts from this system are not market profile based but a rip off of the
wattstrading system. www.wattstrading.com
If this is the case IMO you are better spending the $50 on the Watts system.

 

[tystewart888]

it sure is annoying when someone comments on something they have no idea about such as the above post by Gado.

I am a subscriber to the Balance Trader website as well as Watts. BalanceTrader is in no way a ripoff of Watts and if the above poster had ever tried it, he would know this. The two methodologies do complement each other well, and the owners know each other, but they are completely separate.

Watts is a technical analysis timing system. BalanceTrader is a market profile methodology. They are not at all the same. Get a life Gado.

 

[jerry828]

Bt

it sure is annoying when someone comments on something they have no idea about such as the above post by Gado.

I am a subscriber to the Balance Trader website as well as Watts. BalanceTrader is in no way a ripoff of Watts and if the above poster had ever tried it, he would know this. The two methodologies do complement each other well, and the owners know each other, but they are completely separate.

Watts is a technical analysis timing system. BalanceTrader is a market profile methodology. They are not at all the same. Get a life Gado.

I second that (I've been a member of both websites since last year). BT and Watts complement each other as BT concentrates on market structure, using Market Profile, wheras Watts can be used for timing the trades. The fact that many BT members also use Watts is, as Ty points out, a consequence of that the people behind these sites know each other. Some screenshots reflecting this fact might have given Gado the wrong idea. No need for hard words but get your facts straight Gado, before you start talking about rip-offs and questioning people.

As for the initial question from usul in this thread, yes it's about Market Profile, yes it's good and it connects Dalton's MP sometimes a bit abstract work with daytrading in an excellent way. It's probably one of the best places to start if you want to include MP in your daily trading.

 

[the_seeker]

I've replied to a post before regarding Frank Butera (do a search for wattstrading if you're interested), the founder of balancetrader; so I'll not comment on that here. I'll add a few comments on some of the remarks made here, however.

Firstly, re: balancetrader. A means of using market profile primarily as a daytrading tool. Without advertising it, I'll not say much more. Does it work? Yes it does IF, and only IF you have the same disciplines required to be successful in this business in place. It is NOT some holy grail.

Secondly, re: ripoff of wattstrading. Not so. Necessarily to use MP, one must have some kind of strategy in place in order for it to be effective. Anybody that has read Dalton will be aware of that. Wattstrading merely sells an effective TA method, which when used with the correct discipline, will work - particularly in conjunction with the balancetrader approach. Again, surprise, surprise: no holy grails here either.

Thirdly, if Usul99 (or anyone else for that matter) feels that they're going to get scammed, then don't purchase anything. It's that simple. But I wonder, do you feel scammed after you've read some expensive book - and lost money? Or if you've started using some new oscillator (according to the creator's rules) and lost money? It's easy to label 'vendors' as rip off artists, when in fact not trading according to your plan is what caused the loss.

Finally, yes, I am a member of both of these communities, so it would be easy to label me as being biased. I am not. I just get annoyed when, finally, you get close enough to some geniune traders, traders willing to help others, the forum bloggers come along branding such vendors as scam artists. What more do you want? Presumably a traffic light saying buy or sell, as opposed to learning sound, proven methodologies. Or the key to King Solomon's mines wherein is contained some market 'secret', as opposed to learning how to operate in the market with discipline. Because that's what it takes.

Regards
The Seeker

 

[usul99]

Thank you all for the information. I was just looking for some information. I didn't mean to start a war. I appreciate all the feedback from everyone.

 

[TraderSK]

usul99,

I guess you are a beginner in trading concepts?

It would take you many months to understand the basic of market profile tool and auction market concept and years to develop strategies based on the high-probability patterns if you could recognize from them. It is also very difficult to daytrade with MP.

However, Frank Butera, the developer of Balancetrader, has made it so simple for any beginner with his support and resistance method. Many traders are scared when they hear MP and auction market concept; it is because they are not easy subjects to learn. For Frank's course, all you need to know as a pre-requsite is just the very, very basic stuff of MP and auction market concept which you could learn in 1-2 hours. The Balancetrader method is based on one of the footprints shown in MP and Frank and his students milk it at least 1-3 times a day as well as effectively avoid the random trading-range type of market condition. The other nice part for a beginner is Frank makes it very simple for trend definition and premarket planning if you know what I am talking about. I paid $200 (comparing to current $67 give-away price) to learn his method but I have no regret. Frank has provided me a solid base to explore other footprints. Furthermore, he is always there to support everyone who bought his method on any matters except providing you the capital.

It is unnecessary to have the childish reply from Gado saying Balancetrader method as a "rip-off" from Watts system. It is definitely NOT! They are totally different. Frank encourages his students to use Watts indicator-based system to time entries and targets IF he does not have one and need one to feel comfortable to trigger trade. As a beginner, you would feel like in a black hole if you don't see any moving averages and indicators on your charts. That is why you see them on Frank's charts. I bought it, use it but have already graduated from that level.

You do the sum and decide what you should do. You are fortunate that some of us spent our precious time to provide the advice.

 

[nine]

LOL.

Reading the posts I think gado's comment was simply based on some charts he'd seen and probably didn't really mean too much offence.

What has come out here is that the Watts system is an alternative (although there is the potential for them to be complementary they do stand alone) if you're looking for a way of scalping (or a holding a bit longer) some trades with the trend.

 

[vinnie]

Getting it Straight

Gado,

Apparently interpreting a chart without knowing what is compose of can lead to the wrong comments u provided.

I know so cause i am both a Watts and Balancetrader memeber.

Watts is a trigger method system and Balancetrader uses the Watts system for the trigger/filter but the decisions are based on Balancetrading analysis(Market Profile).

So your comments come from lack of knowledge or understanding, without the facts.

And Balancetrader is no ripoff i am a member of both.

On the contrary, If u just take the time to learn Balancetrader, it will help ur trading. As it helps mine.


It seems the charts from this system are not market profile based but a rip off of the
wattstrading system. www.wattstrading.com
If this is the case IMO you are better spending the $50 on the Watts system.

 

[nine]

You absolutely don't need Watt's method to trade the setups that Balance Trader provides. You can use it but it is by no means necessary.

 

[cookding]

Two Thumbs Up

I am sick as a dog (caught a cold) but still want to post this:

1) Frank is a real trader and the straightest shooter you will ever find.

2) He actually took the time to help me with my trading for hours and hours

3) You will learn what is good trading then the choice is yours.

I would say both balancetrader.com (Frank Butera) and wattstrading.com (Ryan Watts) are excellent values. You might not get it the first round due to mental baggage but their stuff will get to you if you give it time. As bolter would say, suspend your beliefs and go with the flow.

 

[herringtrader]

Hello,

This question is for those who are members of both the Wattstrading and the Balancetrading group.

Which method do you recommend to learn first?

Is it possible to make money with the Balancetrader method alone, without learning the Wattstrading method?

Thanks,

Herringtrader

 

[nine]

For a newbie learning to trade then its going to be easier to start with Watts. The reason is that this is a simple trend supported strategy with the potential for a medium high number of trades per day and a high win rate. It also can cover trade management and entry in some detail. So its likely to be easy to trade.

Balance trader requires a bit more work, has fewer traders per day and (IMHO) is better suited to someone who has some good ideas about trade entry and trade management. I think it requires more maturity.

To be direct with you, given the costs there is nothing to stop one taking both on. I think though that unless you have a bit of experience working with entry and exit strategies and trade management you should start with Watts and work on it for a few months before looking at balance trader.

 

[herringtrader]

Hello,

If I understand well the balancetrader method filters out some of the wattstrading method trades, this is why BT has fewer trades. I asked Ryan and Frank and both claims that they have a 70-75% win loss ratio. So I do not really see how the filtering works!

Kiwi, are you personally taking only the balance BT setups? If yes why?

Thanks,

Herringtrader

 

[er2max]

But do you know if the program is effective? Did you buy it? More importantly, does it work?

usul99
BalanceTrader is an excellent training course/strategy, with live support, that teaches you Market Profile Theory. MPT is used to determine the status of the market based on volume and price action; i.e. is it ranging, trending, up, down, where is the support/resistance and most importantly should I be trading right now? if yes, what is my risk and where is my profit target? Frank Butera, founder of BT, does an excellent job of explaining MPT in a clear, concise and logical manner. There are two free lessons available on his site which will give you enough information to make your decision on whether MPT might be useful to you and whether Frank can explain it to you. He can. As he says in the first lesson, MPT will tell you if/when to trade and then you need a trigger strategy to enter the trade. He uses the WattsTrading strategy to enter his trades, which is why there are two Watts indicators on the bottom of his charts. Interestingly, at no time during his lessons does he refer to the Watts indicators nor the entry signals they provide. BT and Watts are essentially mutually exclusive in that BT seeks to time trades for the highest probability of success with the least risk while Watts seeks entry points based on a series of indicators. BT will filter out trades with a poor risk/reward ratio and therefore makes fewer trades than strictly indicator based systems. Both BT and Watts are necessary for a complete trading strategy in my opinion. Frank states up front that you can use any entry trigger system and that he prefers and uses Watts. I have both BT and Watts and can highly recommend both products and both vendors. Both offer great value and service. As far as MPT goes, placing trades without considering it is gambling (IMHO).

 

[sparktrade]

BalanceTrader and spot FOREX

Hi all,

I know this thread is way old, but perhaps someone will be kind enough to answer my question - can BalanceTrader and MPT be applied to spot FOREX trading?

thanks
Spark

usul99
BalanceTrader is an excellent training course/strategy, with live support, that teaches you Market Profile Theory. MPT is used to determine the status of the market based on volume and price action; i.e. is it ranging, trending, up, down, where is the support/resistance and most importantly should I be trading right now? if yes, what is my risk and where is my profit target? Frank Butera, founder of BT, does an excellent job of explaining MPT in a clear, concise and logical manner. There are two free lessons available on his site which will give you enough information to make your decision on whether MPT might be useful to you and whether Frank can explain it to you. He can. As he says in the first lesson, MPT will tell you if/when to trade and then you need a trigger strategy to enter the trade. He uses the WattsTrading strategy to enter his trades, which is why there are two Watts indicators on the bottom of his charts. Interestingly, at no time during his lessons does he refer to the Watts indicators nor the entry signals they provide. BT and Watts are essentially mutually exclusive in that BT seeks to time trades for the highest probability of success with the least risk while Watts seeks entry points based on a series of indicators. BT will filter out trades with a poor risk/reward ratio and therefore makes fewer trades than strictly indicator based systems. Both BT and Watts are necessary for a complete trading strategy in my opinion. Frank states up front that you can use any entry trigger system and that he prefers and uses Watts. I have both BT and Watts and can highly recommend both products and both vendors. Both offer great value and service. As far as MPT goes, placing trades without considering it is gambling (IMHO).

 

[Joey25]

Hi all,

I know this thread is way old, but perhaps someone will be kind enough to answer my question - can BalanceTrader and MPT be applied to spot FOREX trading?

thanks
Spark

I've got the basic membership which doesn't include access to the room. However, the materials which this gives you access to are certainly impressive.

If the markets you wish to trade go through clear phases of consolidation / breakout / balance, then in my opinion his material will certainly help you.

You will probably struggle to use volume analysis with spot fx (I guess), but many traders find that the time-at-price and pattern recognition stuff works better anyway.

With MP I'd recommend taking the Value Area with a pinch of salt. The theory is only watertight if you have a normal distribution, and even then what's so special about +/- 1 standard deviation?

Going back to Frank's site, it has encouraged me to trade breakouts now, and also go for bigger winners, something I never really did when I had a journal running. He runs a free blog here:My.WallSt.net - Blogs

Hope this helps,
Joey