Any possibilities?

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Tubbs

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Hi folks,

I'm a grad in Engineering from a pretty good Uni but not the usual top 3. I actually work in Engineering at the moment. What's the problem then? Well I can't stand Engineering. Probably something to do with the fact this country doesn't value their engineers. So my question is: Is it possible in any way to transfer from this field into one of a trading related banking job (or even something off the wall to do with trading)? Must I retrain given that I have a very sought after numerical degree. I have a Masters in this Mech Eng too.

All the jobs I have seen obviously ask for experience, but I don't really know where to start to find some. I am mid to late twenties so graduate jobs are not ideal. Also my pay is at a decent level now. You could say I would grumble to be hung, but I do find trading a great passion of mine & would really like to wake up in the morning & enjoy the prospect of the working day.

Any ideas would be highly welcome!
 
Yeah, well that's my ideal that I am constantly trying to work towards. At the moment I would need at least a great past record, or a prop house to convince family & friends I worked in a real place & hadn't gone mental.
 
The problem with all of this is a conundrum: Should I throw away a possibly lucrative but boring career in the oil & gas industry, for which I have more training than any other industry, for a career that I would probably enjoy more but is far far more risky? The prop option for my I think is too risky. I also wouldn't like the fact that it would be very unlikely that I could trade in my own style & my own vehicle.
 
Tubbs said:
The problem with all of this is a conundrum: Should I throw away a possibly lucrative but boring career in the oil & gas industry, for which I have more training than any other industry, for a career that I would probably enjoy more but is far far more risky? The prop option for my I think is too risky. I also wouldn't like the fact that it would be very unlikely that I could trade in my own style & my own vehicle.
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With an engineering background you can end up in Project finance department of a bank if you try and are lucky.

Another option would be(the safest option) to stand the engineering for a few more years till you increase your capital and trading skills to a level that you feel comfortable going your own way.

Another option would be to attempt a CFA type certification(which should be easy for you given your engineering background) and then work for the derivatives/structured products section of a bank.
 
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It would seem that Tubbs needs to be a banker to achieve his goals in life ;)
 
Tubbs said:
The problem with all of this is a conundrum: Should I throw away a possibly lucrative but boring career in the oil & gas industry, for which I have more training than any other industry, for a career that I would probably enjoy more but is far far more risky? The prop option for my I think is too risky. I also wouldn't like the fact that it would be very unlikely that I could trade in my own style & my own vehicle.
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DONT WASTE YOUR ****ING LIFE DOING SOMETHING YOU DONT REALLY WANT TO BE DOING.
 
Probably the safest & most rewarding way to reach my trading goals would be to go it alone. I'd need a while first though. I'm surprised there isn't more on these boards about people who want to trade full time but can't take the plunge. Maybe there is. It's a pretty difficult descision to make. Well it is if you have stuff to lose - which I guess most people do.

Rizwanuk - if I did retrain in any way what do you think the chances of being hired would be? Does a CFA qualification mean a good chance?

JonnyT - you may well be right. However, I like the actual banking without bankers! I think I'll just move to Chicago & hang out round the Merc! All those colourful jackets.....

Bundbaby - it's all very well saying don't do a job you don't want to do, but I imagine about 50% of people work in jobs they hate. That said life is too short to do stuff that's dull. I think my own business is the key. You can certainly see why there are so many trading Gurus and mentors, it's an ideal job. Work as much as you want, preach what you love & you don't even need to be good at what your preaching. Marvellous!
 
Hi,

I'm in a similar situation myself, as I'm sure many others are, well paid IT job, good industry qualifications etc, but at 31, I'm already bored to tears with it.

However, I have a plan, one I've spawned over the past few years of dabbling in various trading vehichles, which WILL get me out of this rat race and allow me to do something I want to do, trade!

I've been paper trading for the best part of 3-4 months now, a couple of different approaches, which are working out well and proving to be very profitable, I plan to continue paper trading until the end of this month, when I'm going to move to very small stakes, to continue testing my own trades within a realistic but low risk way.

At the beginning of January 06, I expect to increase stakes and start to generate a second income stream for approx 6 months, until I have the capital to see me through the last 6 months of the year, paying the mortgage etc, then up the ante and go for it full time.

It's the only way I can confidently apply what I've been learning in a relaistic way to acheive the goal.

There are no questions, that's my plan, I beleive in and expect to acheive what I aim to acheive - a better lifestyle through trading.

I've stumbled along, umming and wondering for the past two years, now I'm taking the bull by the horns and going out to get what I want...my point, at some stage you have to say 'bugger it' and make a plan and do it.

I feel even better going to my 9-5 these days, knowing that there is light, light I HAVE PLANNED, at the end of the tunnel.

All the best,

Dave.
 
Tubbs, if i were you i wouldn't be afraid to apply for trading or trading-related jobs with a masters in engineering. It's implied knowledge has always been looked on favourably in the city, and probably more so now that trading desks are increasingly seeking those with quant skills.

Good luck...
 
Yeah, I would have thought so too, but I don't seem to get past the recruitmant kid. I don't tick the right boxes. When I chose engineering it was because at that time people were going into the city with the same qulifications. By the time I had finished in 2001 you will remember the job market was dead, investment banks were firing really experienced staff. Since then I don't think things have ever been the same. Add to that the A level results are far easier to come by & the current crop of grads look more attractive. One of my friends wouldn't give up till he got into an investment bank - Dresnder I think, he managed it eventually as a quant, so you're right. Doesn't sound like a very attractive job from what he says. I think dwaddell's route is the most gradifying, if you can pull it off. You would think there may be more opportunities out there really.....
 
Yes a with an Engineering background a CFA route will definitely mean more chances in banks and in quant type jobs.
 
If you want advise at how to get into the money game from the ' outside ' , then you'd better listen to someone who has actually done that .

I did a non trading related job until I was 31 , then managed to get into a bank selling derivatives , I moved around and eventually ended up as a IN HOUSE trader , that is PAID to TRADE OTHER PEOPLE"S money .

Important emphasis here less , I don't wnat to get mistaken for a prop trader at one of these weird arcade things . These are places where you trade and risk your own money , anyone can do that . In fact the more the merrier for the arcade bosses.

So , in my view and experience , no matter that you have Eng degree . The fact is the city views late enrants into the game very very suspiciously , why ? I don't know , I feel it's a control freakery thing , but this is the hard truth .

The bog standard entrance into the industry is 1st class degree from OXbridge or Ivies at graduate level !

Any deviation from this is viewed upon infavourably , unless you have spent the time up to PHD level at the same standard of unis.

When they say they want experience , they mean they want staff who already have some working life in the financial sector . you will find that most staff shift around from one financial organisation to another in a sort of circle.

That said there are some large holes in this arrangement but you have to know where to find them .

On the subject of trading yourself . Yes , why not but at an arcade ? why not just do it from the comfort of your own home , rather than pay some arcade boss for rent and other dubious facilities.
 
Yes stockjunkie, I would have to agree with your thoughts. I do, though, think you're saying it's almost impossible from this juncture, no? I imagine it has been a pretty hard road to get to a trading position for you. I come from the complete wrong background I'm afraid. I don't want to get political but it does explain my choices. I am totally middle class. The old sketch about looking up to him, but down on him couldn't be more true. In terms of the job market this seems to really screw you. Especially in banking. I don't fit the mould. This also agrees with what you said about the skepticism. At the moment this country is screwing the middle class, majority. The funny thing is we ARE the majority. Doesn't help me none!
 
no , not impossible , but you need what I call tricks and sneaks .

Can you explain a bit more about what you mean about the middle class and banking jobs ? I can see the point generally but specifically re : banking jobs ?
 
Tubbs said:
Yes stockjunkie, I would have to agree with your thoughts. I do, though, think you're saying it's almost impossible from this juncture, no? I imagine it has been a pretty hard road to get to a trading position for you. I come from the complete wrong background I'm afraid. I don't want to get political but it does explain my choices. I am totally middle class. The old sketch about looking up to him, but down on him couldn't be more true. In terms of the job market this seems to really screw you. Especially in banking. I don't fit the mould. This also agrees with what you said about the skepticism. At the moment this country is screwing the middle class, majority. The funny thing is we ARE the majority. Doesn't help me none!
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Tubbs, I agree with alot of what stockjunkie says but as someone who has been involved in a few "arcades" I think it is a little bit of a generalisation too run them all down.
As with all things in life there are good ones and bad ones.
Professional traders need good IT, good news services and the all important edge. If you are starting out a lot can be learned from good training schemes that some of these houses offer and more importantly you can take a "backed" deal where you are paid a retainer and trade the houses funds. This gives you a free roll of the dice, the ability to learn what trading style suits you, what front end trading system suits you and the best markets to suit the previous two.
Build up your confidence and experience and then take a view on whether you can or want to trade from home and risk your own money.
Good "arcades" (we prefer professional trading rooms) have a wealth of knowledge and offer help and assistance. Sure some have scrimped on IT costs, others are huge mincing machines but a good number have set many a good trader on their way. Trading for a living is a big step especially in your circumstances and you need too give yourself the best chance too succeed.
 
Arcades are arcades are arcades , how many ways is there to diguise them ?

Those socalled training shemes are nothing more than telling you what bar charts and candle sticks are . Big deal , you could get all of that on countless sites on the net . What they pretend to teach you is a REAL trading edge , which it is patently NOT .

The socalled schemes are effectively nothing more than trading your own money in the end .

No one has or can so far show me any real advantage of arcades.
 
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