All you need to trade is a horizontal line - TheRumpledOne

[ammo]

ok maybe i was not so clear....

the market goes to 163 you receive your buy signal and buy !

unfortunately the market goes straight down and hit your stop loss. But at that time you get also your sell signal so you sell but again the market change direction and move up and hit your stop loss again !!! But at that time you get your buy signal again and....got it ??

this system hes explaining would work great right now because everything is whipping so far in both directions,its actually a great idea if he's diligent with the stops,when they crush the volatility and the s&ps go back to 30 point daily range it wont,but he'll have made plenty of cash by then like they say in that guiness commercial, BRILLIANT!

 

[TheRumpledOne]

ok maybe i was not so clear....

the market goes to 163 you receive your buy signal and buy !

unfortunately the market goes straight down and hit your stop loss. But at that time you get also your sell signal so you sell but again the market change direction and move up and hit your stop loss again !!! But at that time you get your buy signal again and....got it ??

You it is funny that so many people try to find a way that the Buy Zone won't work. They will spend hours, days, weeks, etc.. trying to prove it doesn't work.

If they would only realize that if they looked for how it could work for them, then they would be on the winning path.

I hear from people on almost a daily basis who are thanking me for showing them the Buy Zone because, for once in their trading careers, they are making money.

 

[jayjay121]

You it is funny that so many people try to find a way that the Buy Zone won't work. They will spend hours, days, weeks, etc.. trying to prove it doesn't work.

If they would only realize that if they looked for how it could work for them, then they would be on the winning path.

I hear from people on almost a daily basis who are thanking me for showing them the Buy Zone because, for once in their trading careers, they are making money.

and this is exactly what is messing my head up right now.......im making everyday so far except one day with the buyzone, but people say it cannot work in the long term...................grey1 says this is like trying to rob a bank and you only get rewarded because you are lucky, it's really confusing i must admit but maybe if it's working then carry on, should we listen to people or not?.......i just don't know, see grey1 knows what he is talking about of course and his views must be respected but has he ever tried a style like this to make such assumptions?


jason

 

[Trader333]

grey1 says this is like trying to rob a bank and you only get rewarded because you are lucky

I think you have taken his comments out of context. He was referring to those who claim they can get a 100 point run using momentum trading and more specifically on a consistent basis. BZ is very different because the targets are so small that you would have to be at the exhaustion end of any momentum run for it to fail. In other words you would have to enter a trade at the exact point where the market is about to reverse to consistently lose. I have yet to meet anyone who is capable of picking the top or bottom of a market with any consistency and especially in very low time frames. Most momentum runs don't begin and end in the time frame used for BZ trades.

That said I have set arbitrary times and found that the principle behind BZ will work at any time you choose, it doesn't have to be on the hour. The key to success in this is the small target and in other definitions is known as hit and run. I have developed my own approach that has worked well so far as I am entering trades based on exhaustion in the opposite direction and so far it is giving good results but it is early days yet.


Paul

 

[JTrader]

For me, any strategy user thats risks 8 pips, and is then happy to recoup a 4 pip profit, without having a very high % of winners (75% or more) is engaging in kamikaze trading.

For me, because there is no logical reason why the BZ lines provide any type of edge in terms of if price hits the BZ long line first, there is a 75%+ chance that price will go 7 pips into profit, before retreating back to the 7 pip SL, i see no reason to credit this approach with any merit.

Sure, it may not go +7 pips before retreating to -7p SL, it may go +5 or +6, & had you been quick enough, you could have bagged a FEW pips. But this takes us back to the basic problem of being happy to bag 4 pips while risking 8 or so pips. Not good if you ask me, unless you can achieve 75%+ winning signals, which my analysis has shown is not the case with BZ, and there is no logical reason why there should be such an edge in terms of winning % as the entry signals are just at random points on a chart.

Therefore I personally have abandoned BZ as a non-starter. But thats not to say it can't work for others.

 

[Trader333]

My risk is 10 and profit is a minimum of 12 but when the momentum keeps going it is easy to get a lot more than 2 to 1 Reward to Risk. So far it is working well but like I said I am only using the principle of BZ and have developed my own approach. I should add that this cannot be successful using SB or Bucket shop, it is essential to use a direct access platform.


Paul

 

[JTrader]

My risk is 10 and profit is a minimum of 12 but when the momentum keeps going it is easy to get a lot more than 2 to 1 Reward to Risk. So far it is working well but like I said I am only using the principle of BZ and have developed my own approach. I should add that this cannot be successful using SB or Bucket shop, it is essential to use a direct access platform.


Paul

Why?

Whats wrong with worldspreads & their 1-pip 0800-1600 uk time EURUSD, AUDUSD & USDJPY spreads.

Thanks.

 

[Trader333]

It is to do with speed of execution which is critical to success of this approach. It takes me less than 0.5 seconds to decide to take a trade, hit the hotkey to enter and get filled. The same is true to exit the trade and when you are taking small profits then every point or pip counts. The commission I pay is less than 1 point in value and so far my trades have lasted a maximum of about 61 seconds. I will see how it progresses over a longer time frame but so far it looks good just like jayjay121 has been saying. I am almost certain that using SB or other non ECN will result in greater slippage, slower fills and as such less profits which for something like this is very costly over a large number of trades.


Paul

 

[JTrader]

My risk is 10 and profit is a minimum of 12 but when the momentum keeps going it is easy to get a lot more than 2 to 1 Reward to Risk. So far it is working well but like I said I am only using the principle of BZ and have developed my own approach. I should add that this cannot be successful using SB or Bucket shop, it is essential to use a direct access platform.


Paul

Yes i was also thinking of using the entry lines with my owned customised R:R ratio (max SL of maybe 10 pips & PT of maybe 20 pips, alongside some kind of trailing SL), but to be fair did not look into this in detail.

 

[Trader333]

The reason that BZ works at all is purely due to momentum and the small profit targets. Essentially, if you get a momentum move then it is presumed that this momentum will carry on long enough to reach profit target. This is why I am using an exhaustion measure so that I don't enter when a very short term move is fizzling out and by that I am referring to a 1 minute time frame.


Paul

 

[JTrader]

exhaustion measure - interesting. Are you finding that you have found an effective filter (to remove more losers than winners removed) then?

Cheers.

 

[Trader333]

It is too early to know yet, I need to do a lot more of these types of trade before I will know for definite but the results so far have been good. I will update things once I know.


Paul

 

[black bear]

Its all wrong but its all right

You it is funny that so many people try to find a way that the Buy Zone won't work. They will spend hours, days, weeks, etc.. trying to prove it doesn't work.

If they would only realize that if they looked for how it could work for them, then they would be on the winning path.

I hear from people on almost a daily basis who are thanking me for showing them the Buy Zone because, for once in their trading careers, they are making money.

It is to do with speed of execution which is critical to success of this approach. It takes me less than 0.5 seconds to decide to take a trade, hit the hotkey to enter and get filled. The same is true to exit the trade and when you are taking small profits then every point or pip counts. The commission I pay is less than 1 point in value and so far my trades have lasted a maximum of about 61 seconds. I will see how it progresses over a longer time frame but so far it looks good just like jayjay121 has been saying. I am almost certain that using SB or other non ECN will result in greater slippage, slower fills and as such less profits which for something like this is very costly over a large number of trades.


Paul

The reason that BZ works at all is purely due to momentum and the small profit targets. Essentially, if you get a momentum move then it is presumed that this momentum will carry on long enough to reach profit target. This is why I am using an exhaustion measure so that I don't enter when a very short term move is fizzling out and by that I am referring to a 1 minute time frame.


Paul

Hi Paul

good posts IMO

Good thread and posts, I was going to go on one at length but..................

IMO it works. I have my buy and sell Zones my targets are as per mentioned and...

I check at the end of each month to see if in hindsight it works out as per proper traders method if not I just check my account and :-0 its got larger, so I just give myself a telling off for not trading proper like other people and carry on:-0

1.5 yrs and counting in profit and it is as Split says worth it

why did I go this way:?:

no one on this planet can tell you where the next tick will be NO ONE NO METHOD NO LAW OF PROBABILITY NOTHING, NOT EVEN BACKTESTING NOTHING

There is the right here the right now, so take your best shot based on whats in your own head and manage the downside. Your own head = it can be as simple as a straight line.

Sorry LM, your method is fine, good work and if its working for you great I was worried it was not being put across well enough for newbies to understand, I was not attacking you just the way it was explained on your thread, Stops etc anyway........

Good luck all, gone before I go on, and no I will not elaborate further :clover:

Your own head :clap:

 

[bansir]

It is to do with speed of execution which is critical to success of this approach. It takes me less than 0.5 seconds to decide to take a trade, hit the hotkey to enter and get filled. The same is true to exit the trade and when you are taking small profits then every point or pip counts. The commission I pay is less than 1 point in value and so far my trades have lasted a maximum of about 61 seconds. I will see how it progresses over a longer time frame but so far it looks good just like jayjay121 has been saying. I am almost certain that using SB or other non ECN will result in greater slippage, slower fills and as such less profits which for something like this is very costly over a large number of trades.


Paul

Hi Paul,
I've been paper trading BZ on eur/usd (5min) using oanda over the last few days and agree with you regarding speed of execution. When I trade at work through a proxy server, I get lots of delay in execution and hence quite a bit of slippage which makes the system almost unworkable.
At home on direct broadband connection it's much easier to hit the zone with instant execution.

For me, I am now keeping to one trade per hour max otherwise I tend to over-trade.

It's too early to tell if it works for me; This week so far, I'm down (-20pips net) but actually up on the account by £628.05 since I've been tinkering with position size. Over the last 2 days I'm up +19 pips.

Bit of a mixed bag at the moment I guess.

Best Regards,
Neil

 

[bansir]

Just a quick note for anyone having ago with the BZ;

If the price breaks out in your favour with decent momentum, you may be tempted to let it ride for a few more pips. In this case, *quickly move your stop up tight *, don't allow a loss the chance to register.

Basic stuff, I know but it might help someone out there.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[jayjay121]

Just a quick note for anyone having ago with the BZ;

If the price breaks out in your favour with decent momentum, you may be tempted to let it ride for a few more pips. In this case, *quickly move your stop up tight *, don't allow a loss the chance to register.

Basic stuff, I know but it might help someone out there.

Cheers,
Neil

its basic stuff but well worth mentioning as i do it myself and it works and feels good



jason

 

[jayjay121]

try out the er2 guys its great..................go over to kreslik and look up a trader named edmonia...........he trades buyzone on er2 everyday and been at it alot longer than me and he loves buyzone, he says he averages $100 a day on 2 contracts over the long haul.

so on average he beleives $50 per contract per day is the average



like i said he is very experienced on buyzone and traded it a lot longer then us and like he told me once you are confident just up contract size but he does say keep to the $50 per day per contract rule and you'll be fine................does not sound a lot i know but when your ready to up size you will be laughing

by the way the figures he told are based on both winning and losing trades combined, so net overall average for him


jason

 

[JTrader]

All You Need To Trade Are Straight Lines.

ALL YOU NEED TO TRADE IS A HORIZONTAL LINE

I at least partially agree with this statement.

A horizontal line can be used to mark S/R levels, LH's, LL's, HH's, HL's, (& thus general trend direction) and breakouts above/below them.

However, i prefer

ALL YOU NEED TO TRADE ARE STRAIGHT LINES.

A straight line can be used to mark the levels of all the things I've mentioned above, plus more specific (shorter term) trend direction, breakouts from trend, pullbacks and breakouts from pull-backs.

Therefore, with no more than a few straight lines in active use at any one time, i can make sense of a chart, & make trade decisions accordingly.

 

[TheRumpledOne]

It's really funny to see people with little or no experience trading the Buy Zone talking like they are experts.

That is precisely why newbies make money using the Buy Zone and "experienced" traders struggle.

All major moves start in the Buy Zone (especially if you use the Buy Zone every hour) and must exit the Buy Zone... all you have to do is enter the trade.

If you can't see this, then you'll never understand.

 

[Trader333]

All major moves start in the Buy Zone and must exit it... all you have to do is enter the trade.

What is meant by "Major Moves" ?


Paul