Afraid of your judgement

[JA54]

I was wondering if anyone else out there suffers from the same problem I seem to have developed.

I took a big loss recnetly because of bad money management obviously, and in the last 2 days I have been constantly putting orders in cancelling and end up watching my trades take hold and go in the exact direction my analysis forecasted.

 

[Sang Froid]

I was wondering if anyone else out there suffers from the same problem I seem to have developed.

I took a big loss recnetly because of bad money management obviously, and in the last 2 days I have been constantly putting orders in cancelling and end up watching my trades take hold and go in the exact direction my analysis forecasted.

Sounds like you've got 'the fear'. Yes, in the past I've suffered from the same problem, they say... "it's better to be out of a trade wishing you were in, than in a trade wishing you were out".

Why don't you go back to a demo account for a while, employ better MM techniques, and build up confidence in yourself and your system, this is what I'm doing at the minute after blowing my last account.

It sounds to me like we suffer from the same problem, that is, we are are own worst enemies when it comes to trading, psychology is 70% of this game I think, take a step back and don't let your emotions dictate what trades you make, the worst thing you could do now is revenge trade.

Just my thoughts,

Chris

 

[maiden22]

I can definitely understand this,and am going through the same thing myself. I missed a big move on EUR/JPY yesterday because of it, and bailed out early of another trade, for absolutely no reason that was on the chart.

In my case, it's started because I've moved up to "proper" stakes for the first time, and the difference is unbeleivable.

I don't really know what the answer is, but I do think that trading is like anything else. You move forward, you move back, you move forward, you hit a wall, over and over.

It's probably something that only time and experience will solve.

Chris, I agree with your post in every respect but one. I think 70% should be more like 95%.

 

[Sang Froid]

I can definitely understand this,and am going through the same thing myself. I missed a big move on EUR/JPY yesterday because of it, and bailed out early of another trade, for absolutely no reason that was on the chart.

Yep, I still do this all the time, I see the profit, even if it's no where near my T/P and bail out rubbing my hands with glee. Next trade will take out my S/L and bang goes my MM.

Sometimes I wish I did have a bit of fear when it comes to entering trades, instead I'm all too willing to take a trade, any trade so long as it satisfies my craving.

 

[trendie]

If anyone ever finds a fix for this problem, let me know.
Still causes me the most angst.
Lose confidence after about 3 consecutive losses.
Can completely relate to this issue.

 

[maiden22]

Sometimes I wish I did have a bit of fear when it comes to entering trades, instead I'm all too willing to take a trade, any trade so long as it satisfies my craving.

This is exactly it. It's like a 100% emotion switching machine. Before you enter, it's greed all the way. The moment you hit buy or sell, greed vanishes to be replaced by an equal amount of fear.

Craving is actually a pretty good way of describing it.

I'm getting a lot better, but it's a long, slow process. In the end, trading (in my opinion) is not about markets, candles, indicators and all the rest. It really just comes down to discipline.

 

[oiltanker]

i find trying to stay detached helps keep the ruthlessness to stay true to the strat. listening to music helps me. as does a diary of trades i do and the trades the strat gets. some days there is nothing for it but walk away. the screen can be like a witch that casts a spell.

 

[JA54]

Nice to now i'm not alone, thanks for your feedback.

 

[Black Swan]

I was wondering if anyone else out there suffers from the same problem I seem to have developed.

I took a big loss recently because of bad money management obviously, and in the last 2 days I have been constantly putting orders in cancelling and end up watching my trades take hold and go in the exact direction my analysis forecasted.

Yep, have suffered this, IMHO you should open an account (any new account with an SB firm) were you can trade as small a stake as poss. and *sweat trade* yourself out of it...Get used to taking the trades, letting them live, taking the loss or profit based on your pre-defined rules which you must stick to. Keep reminding yourself that it's only v. small stakes and it doesn't matter, it really is not life or death, even if you are hoping to build up to carving a new career out of trading. Perhaps set yourself/ring fence a couple of hundred quid and tell yourself that this is money you expect you might lose, but it's experimental...record each and every trade with this bit of money...

However, 3 caveats; firstly you must be able to trust the platform/firm/broker/sb firm. Second, you must trust your judgement and thirdly that judgement must be based on absolute confidence that your edge/system has not only worked in the past, but you've back tested it to death and have no hang ups about it performing if the usual signals scream..

You say you lost through bad MM and if the loss was relatively big then that's a given, however, ask yourself a really tough question, "how could you lose big if the overall strat/edge was sound?" Sound MM, self discipline, consistent professional attitude towards the business, taking each trade that meets your criteria....we all lag/fail in some of these areas, think which ones you need to sharpen up on and work on them...

Finally, move up to a TF that forces you to stay in the trade longer whilst you get used to watching what price does over such a time...if you've never been in a trade off a 4hr TF for a couple of days with pennies at stake there is no way you won't panic (and early) if pounds are at stake...

Good luck, let's know how you get on...

 

[Benton D Struckcheon]

Take note of Machiavelli (see my sig). Never forget it. I put it there so I don't forget it.
I don't know if that was your problem, or if you just didn't have a stop or some other way of hedging, but in the event it was, well, there it is.

 

[TraderNumber7]

I was wondering if anyone else out there suffers from the same problem I seem to have developed.

I took a big loss recnetly because of bad money management obviously, and in the last 2 days I have been constantly putting orders in cancelling and end up watching my trades take hold and go in the exact direction my analysis forecasted.

From the Movie Dune, 1984:

Fear, is the Mind Killer.

From the Planet Trade, 2010:

Fear, is the Trade Killer.

Mechanical systems are not merely fancy tools, their most pivotal usage in the life of the Trader is to remove Variable Fear and replace it with Consistent Protocol. Consistent Protocol, is the key to trade optimization. Without it, the optimization process is difficult to initiate and almost impossible to maintain for prolonged periods of time.

Consistent Protocol, removes a vast amount of Random Human Error and likewise, contributes to trade optimization over time. Unbalanced amounts of human error, irrational fear, unattenuated rational fear and low levels of consistent protocol, are the primary reasons why many traders fail.

Rational fear is normal. Irrational fear is abnormal. Mechanistic systems rebut irrational fear and leave only rational fear in its place, which is then automatically converted to respect for the markets and its variable nature.

The transformation from Rational Fear to Reasonable Respect, should be the goal of every trader. Protocol driven mechanical systems help to make this a reality.

Absent a mechanical protocol driven system, one must have a mind of steel, nerves of iron rod and virtually unbreakable focus - all the time. To maintain all of the above for prolonged periods of time would be found only in fairytale Hollywood productions and Comic Book spectaculars.

You can build the man of steel, but you cannot be the man of steel, most of the time.

 

[everyonerich]

i was in the same situation a while back, http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/75484-very-sad.html

 

[Mr Flibble]

Sounds like you could really do with a holiday. Perhaps have a little break from it all and make sure you don't have any open positions as you won't sleep well.

 

[Black Swan]

Sounds like you could really do with a holiday. Perhaps have a little break from it all and make sure you don't have any open positions as you won't sleep well.

hmmm....not sure I can agree with this, on longer term TFs, with stops/limits set to stun, I have no problem with overnight/intraday positions...in some ways it's preferable to the jump start needed each day to scalp/play off 15-30 min handicaps...***

Whilst I mightn't always be in at the 'b of the bang', the majority of swings/mini-swings (on the 7 most liquid/traded pairs) don't happen between 1-7am GMT...If they do there's generally a better confirmed trend with lower risk..For example; have a butchers at EU since March 1st to get an idea of when the trend swings...you could have taken 5 trades all at *civilised* times...no sweat..

As for holidays/rest you have to take on board that trading is a lifestyle choice, if you're swing trading then you have to be on the job all your waking hours, but again with the effective use of stops limits you can breath easy and not allow it to become all absorbing...

As Livermore stated he "made more money from sittin than doin..." I'm back to learning patience and trying to be like the Fonz...

*** This is from a guy who's just done a comparison with the profit made dropping down to half hour TFs, vis a vis previous 2-3hr TFs...guess what the outcome was...?

 

[Mr Flibble]

*** This is from a guy who's just done a comparison with the profit made dropping down to half hour TFs, vis a vis previous 2-3hr TFs...guess what the outcome was...? [/QUOTE]

Sorry is that directed at me? I was actually advising someone to go up from a 5 minute chart to a 30 minute if thats what you mean. Please read my statement again. If it wasn't directed at me then please ignore this.

 

[BSD]

Thing I do is make like a casino, totally ignore the outcome of the individual trade - whose winning chance is just a coin toss anyway - as entirely meaningless in the long term outcome, big picture scheme of things.

Means you don't get all despondent when on a losing streak, but the payoff is you can't go getting all euphoric and believing you're brilliant and own the world when winning.

Course nobody is Superman but as long as you don't go seeking non-attainable perfection there are a lot of bad habbits / beliefs you can definitely train the brain to let go off by not fighting them, but instead replacing them with new, better and more functional ones.

If negative fear of failure comes up don't go getting all excited and wanting to fight it, focussing on it will just make it stronger and embed it ever deeper, just acknowledge it and say "hi there old way buddy hows life", and then go concentrate again on positive things you want from life again, reaffirm belief in your edge coming through again - course you need one in the first place - see yourself at the end of the month with a net profit, that kinda thing.

Psychobabble ?

Sure, but so what, it works.

 

[neil]

Thing I do is make like a casino, totally ignore the outcome of the individual trade - whose winning chance is just a coin toss anyway - as entirely meaningless in the long term outcome, big picture scheme of things.

Means you don't get all despondent when on a losing streak, but the payoff is you can't go getting all euphoric and believing you're brilliant and own the world when winning.

Course nobody is Superman but as long as you don't go seeking non-attainable perfection there are a lot of bad habbits / beliefs you can definitely train the brain to let go off by not fighting them, but instead replacing them with new, better and more functional ones.

If negative fear of failure comes up don't go getting all excited and wanting to fight it, focussing on it will just make it stronger and embed it ever deeper, just acknowledge it and say "hi there old way buddy hows life", and then go concentrate again on positive things you want from life again, reaffirm belief in your edge coming through again - course you need one in the first place - see yourself at the end of the month with a net profit, that kinda thing.

Psychobabble ?

Sure, but so what, it works.

Reminds me of the Russell Crowe film " A beautiful Mind" where he acknowledged the "Voices" and "other people" in his mind. he discovered that, for example, the little girl never grew up therefore she was an illusion. After that acknowledgement he would still see those figures in his mind but they were rendered silent because Crowe acknowledged them and recognised them as frauds. So acknowledge your hangup as BSD says, and move on.

 

[JA54]

Well I took the words of wisdom on board and stepped away from the Market all very useful feed back and appreciated. I have to say that my confidence didn't make a great return unfortunately. I have to hope that it will make an appearance soon

 

[wistundra]

I was wondering if anyone else out there suffers from the same problem I seem to have developed.

I took a big loss recnetly because of bad money management obviously, and in the last 2 days I have been constantly putting orders in cancelling and end up watching my trades take hold and go in the exact direction my analysis forecasted.

Is your trading system purely mechanical or does it allow discretion on your part ?

 

[JA54]

I was wondering if anyone else out there suffers from the same problem I seem to have developed.

I took a big loss recnetly because of bad money management obviously, and in the last 2 days I have been constantly putting orders in cancelling and end up watching my trades take hold and go in the exact direction my analysis forecasted.

Is your trading system purely mechanical or does it allow discretion on your part ?

some judgement on my part, mechanics point in the right direction but i think you need to apply your own gut as well