A truly impertinent question

Skanger

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Being a newbie, I'm desperately trying to think of a polite way of asking that question that dare not speak its name. But there is none, so here goes:-
How much in annual terms are people making trading FOREX only :LOL: ?
I'm really hoping to hear from those who trade full-time from home. I am well aware that this is a "how long a piece of string"-type question, but am just interested in a ball-park scenario.
Most of the threads say that only 5% of traders are successful. Is this true? What sort of annual incomes are these guys making? How many years does it take them to develop their winning systems. Please forgive my naivety
 
every one wins. well, at least all those with a truly winning attitude.

its easy. when you have a winning attitude.

does that help?
 
start at the beginning

Skanger said:
Being a newbie, I'm desperately trying to think of a polite way of asking that question that dare not speak its name. But there is none, so here goes:-
How much in annual terms are people making trading FOREX only :LOL: ?
I'm really hoping to hear from those who trade full-time from home. I am well aware that this is a "how long a piece of string"-type question, but am just interested in a ball-park scenario.
Most of the threads say that only 5% of traders are successful. Is this true? What sort of annual incomes are these guys making? How many years does it take them to develop their winning systems. Please forgive my naivety

Pointless to ask what people "make." Similar questions have been asked before if you use the "search" facility to locate them. 5% - been asked before - see "search."

Perhaps you would be better rewarded to look at threads catering for beginners. This one (among others) seems promising.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=17281&page=2
 
neil said:
Pointless to ask what people "make." Similar questions have been asked before if you use the "search" facility to locate them. 5% - been asked before - see "search."

Perhaps you would be better rewarded to look at threads catering for beginners. This one (among others) seems promising.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=17281&page=2
Thanks and I appreciate your advice (thread is indeed very good) but I am asking questions that are not being answered. The sort of answer I'm looking for is: " I know a guy trading 5 years now, he started 2004 with $25k and finished the year having earned(or lost) +$75k (net margin $50k) . I'm not asking to see people's bank statements, just wondering what kind of salaries the experianced guys are bringing in.
I have read many, many threads and no one is prepared to really address the question. My guess is people are either losing fortunes or making so much dough that they don't want the Taxman sniffing around.
I really hope it's the latter, but I suspect it's not....sadly...
 
well if you use the numbers that 90% of retail traders are net losers, you can probably largely answer your own question.

Your question has been asked before, but no-one is answering - the "pro" guys that are genuinely winning are very unlikely to want to discuss or reveal their earnings in a public forum - but even if they did, the answer is so conditional on such things as working capital - making £200k a year if you have £10m in your account isnt exactly a noteworthy acheivement. Equally, the guys who lose money are unlikely to want to discuss it in here either.

I know a trader who is reputed to earn ~ €5m a month if that helps, are there many who can do this? a few maybe, but not very many.
 
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Skanger said:
Being a newbie, I'm desperately trying to think of a polite way of asking that question that dare not speak its name. But there is none, so here goes:-
How much in annual terms are people making trading FOREX only :LOL: ?
I'm really hoping to hear from those who trade full-time from home. I am well aware that this is a "how long a piece of string"-type question, but am just interested in a ball-park scenario.
Most of the threads say that only 5% of traders are successful. Is this true? What sort of annual incomes are these guys making? How many years does it take them to develop their winning systems. Please forgive my naivety

Skanger,
You have it completely around the wrong way.
Let me ask you a couple of questions.
1 How many thousands of hours are you prepared to commit before you give up?
2 How much money are you going to open your account with?
3 How much money are you prepared to lose before you give up?
4 Does q3 over ride q1?
 
Skanger said:
Being a newbie, I'm desperately trying to think of a polite way of asking that question that dare not speak its name. But there is none, so here goes:-
How much in annual terms are people making trading FOREX only :LOL: ?
I'm really hoping to hear from those who trade full-time from home. I am well aware that this is a "how long a piece of string"-type question, but am just interested in a ball-park scenario.
Most of the threads say that only 5% of traders are successful. Is this true? What sort of annual incomes are these guys making? How many years does it take them to develop their winning systems. Please forgive my naivety

Your first question on entering any new business venture is of course to ask "whats my liability and risk", Im assuming youve got that covered and now your looking at the potential rewards, after which I guess you'll ask "is this something I can do", however back to your question.

I understand your frustration. In one sense it looks like an easy question doesn't it, for example you could phone the personnel department of a large business, lets say McDonalds for sake of argument, and ask your question “I'm considering a management position with your company, what kind of salaries can I expect”, and Id expect that you'd get a reasonably detailed and satisfactory answer.

Your enquiry however is a little more complex, and there may be a whole host of reasons that your not getting the answer you seek

Firstly there is no motivation on the part of a successful trader to answer your question.

There may be a reluctance to share confidential information

Maybe no one posting here is an experienced or profitable trader :devilish:

If I were a highly experienced trader making 30 million a year, or a hopelessly addicted gambler frittering 3 million of the family fortune away each year that doesn't mean that you'll experience a similar success or failure so answering your question wont help you in the slightest.

What conclusions would you draw if I said yep, I started in 2001 with 10K and I'm now earning 80K a year, the next guy says, I started in 2003 with 5K and I earn 190,000 a year, the next guy says I started in 2001 and last year I broke even, the next guy says I started with 100K and blew my account in 6 months. I'm not sure how that helps you. Even if we all fully disclosed our methods, strategies, statements it simply wouldn't help you other than to show some people make money trading.

This shouldn't come as a surprise, there'll be a small group of people in any business or industry that do very well, using our earlier example there'll be people working in McDonalds earning the most phenomenal salaries, does that mean you should apply for a position with them ?

The potential to profit from trading is important, but its even more important is that you enjoy the process, in my experience its far easier to succeed at something you enjoy doing rather than grinding away doing something you hate. People also generally get exactly what they want, Its pretty obvious but a point many fail to see.

regards
 
Skanger said:
Being a newbie, I'm desperately trying to think of a polite way of asking that question that dare not speak its name. But there is none, so here goes:-
How much in annual terms are people making trading FOREX only :LOL: ?
I'm really hoping to hear from those who trade full-time from home. I am well aware that this is a "how long a piece of string"-type question, but am just interested in a ball-park scenario.
Most of the threads say that only 5% of traders are successful. Is this true? What sort of annual incomes are these guys making? How many years does it take them to develop their winning systems. Please forgive my naivety

Skanger,

I agree with previous posts, the answer to your question is dependant on many factors and circumstances.

Assuming one can trade consistently there is no limit to ones earning potential. Depending on ones risk tolerance and risk capital, leverage can turn consistency into whatever profit you like (obviously dependent on the liquidity and volume of the instrument traded).

Regards

TMM
 
Skanger,

As you have found out not many traders like to say what they make. This is a great business, but also a business of skepticism and one of varying degrees of knowledge and most of all account sizes. Nobody has the same account size so money is relative to each person trading and so nobody likes to stick their neck out and say what they make because it is totally meaningless in the scale of things. If i told you i made £500 a month as a full time trader you probably wouldnt be filled with confidence about trading. But if i told you i traded a £1000 account you would think "great! i can make a 50% return a month". On the otherhand i could say i made £5000 a month and you would think that sounded very promising, but if i traded a £10 million account that would be a poor return.

I'll stick my neck out and tell you how to find out what amount of money you would make if you were me.
Money management is the biggest weapon in a good traders arsenal. You will rarely find a good trader that risks more than 5% of their overall capital on a trade, personally i never go over 2%. If you are risking 2% a trade you are looking for at least a 2% return off of that trade, ideally 4%. I trade intraday and look for about 3-5 trades a day. And if i have a 60-70% successful strike rate i'll be happy.
Most traders will work to a business model (if that is the correct phrase) of a similar structure to this.

Tom
 
Thank you everyone for your advice/responses. Tommog, I think you got closest to answering the question I actually asked. Its interesting how a seemingly straightforward request can be interpreted or contextualised. I wasn't actually asking anyone what they themselves were earning. It was more a general question. I have a fair grasp of what needs to be done to begin to even break even as a trader. Believe me I am under no illusions as to what is involved.
Zupcon, you are correct ,it is more complex than asking what the going rate is for a "regular" position eg what are sales managers in FMCG taking home? I suppose it is more akin to asking what a financial consultant makes. Some make €40k pa and some make €5m pa. I'm just wondering what a regular guy trading on Forex at home with 25k start capital is making.
 
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