A fundamental shift in your worldview?

[JumpOff]

Have you ever had a moment where you realized the world is not what you thought it was? I mean a seriously big change in how your perceive the world and your relationship to it?

I think it was dbphoenix who in another thread talked about having to unlearn some things in order to trade properly. And although I'm probably going off on a tangent, and maybe didn't understand what he meant in that context, it got me to thinking.. It seems to me that the most useful skill a trader can have is the ability to perceive what *is* happening now - as opposed to what you think *ought* to be happening now, or what *should* happen next.

I've found that my ability to unlearn things increased exponentially after some unique events in my life:
#1 I came to doubt the religion I grew up with as a child. (well ok - it was really just a loooong downhill slide, but there were a few unique moments that stick out in my mind)

#2 As a result of my own stupid carelessness, I had a couple of close brushes with what should have been fatal accidents - and by pure luck, I walked away unscathed both times.

In each case,for a short time it was as though some kind of gate had opened and I was able to see all kinds of things in a new way. Then after a couple of days, I would go back to not much 'unlearning' until the next event. I remember those days as being full of turmoil and uncomfortableness - not sleeping too well either.

I've been wondering if there is a way to give yourself mini doses of those kinds of experiences, as an exercise in 'being alert' or being ready to see things in a new way. Socrates mentioned trying to observe yourself while watching TV.

Have you had any experience with anything like this? Did it help or hinder your ability to learn about trading?
JO

 

[jsd]

conscious evolution of the individual, to be aware and consciously direct yourself as opposed to having the sub conscious ego pilot domminating your shallower level conscious to fulfil its demands.

what did you think the world was ? and how do you perceive it to be now?
I see the world,universe and all life forms as energy, fragments, diffusion of energy all connected in the sense that energy cannot be destroyed (science FACT) but it can change form, diffuse.

you see there is a god and its called ENERGY ,take comfort brother when we die ,we dont actually die, scientific fact, as we are energy we change form. Only the human identity as we are will cease to exist. Sadly the western churches are not banging this drum and there still remains great fear of death, still attached to old values and beliefs drawn from mans experinces and thoughts from early millenia.. no wonder people leave the church, do they lack faith? not at all, western religion is fundamentally flawed weve been waking up since the 1400's , busy providing economic security, BUT alas, in this day of mass abundance people feel more empty /depressed than ever before, why ? neglect of the need to provide spiritual security, slowly people are consciously evolving to get back in touch with their spiritual (energy) side.

Who thinks David Ike is Mad.. ? I seriously dont.

go long spirituality - start unwinding economics.

perhaps we can see why the more spiritual races do not take kindly to westernisation of the planet, we in the west will be first to hit the capitalist blow off and slump as a people when the dollar god will get so angry that a great big nuclear sun will appear and signal the dawn of mans first step into the new day....

as beavis and butthead might say " huh, huhh, huhh... cool sun.." " yeah.. its errrrr really hot" "errrr'' "huhh, huhh, huhhh''

God Bless America.


JD

 

[JumpOff]

what did you think the world was ? and how do you perceive it to be now?

Who thinks David Ike is Mad.. ? I seriously dont.

The world used to seem more static and predictable to me. I was better able to divide things into black and white. It was easier for me to ascribe negative motives to people whose views were different than mine.

Yet, I haven't had any fundamental shifts in my world view for many years, and I am still curious to know if there is a way engage that massive ability for alertness and willingness to see things in a new way. As long as I could get it in small doses. I do like my beauty sleep these days....

Who is David Ike? Why do people think he is mad?

Does is have anything to do with trading?
JO

 

[Roberto]

Who is David Ike? Why do people think he is mad?

He's generally considered by people who know about these things to be a textbook description of "paranoid schizophrenia".

 

[jsd]

heres some info on David Icke.... hes certainly shifted his "world view" BIG TIME. slagged off by almost everyone who thought his way of thinking was just too way out for rational order and control for the masses to get to grips with.

In short he was a sports journalist for the BBC some years back then the press stated "Icke claims to be son of god" what a nutter etc.... what he said was his view shifting to the energy concept of all beings and matter, therefore in that sense he/we/everybody are sons/daughters of god, back to the one universal energy concept and all things are diffussions or different forms of the same energy but all connected...... makes sense to me.... and science with the rule of thermodynamics (the study of energy) one of the basic laws is energy cannot be destroyed OR created, yet it can transform, just like ourselves at death.... eternal life ,perhaps, not as we know it in the afterdeath scenario, but thats FACT. we as energy go on ..

he also knew he would be in for a slating to be such a contrarion, but had to go through it in order to break free from the fear of the doctorines, governments ,peers businesses are shoving down our throats...

managed to sniff a web site out
http://www.icke-media.com/

but even Mark Douglas discusses the aspect of the physical and non physical aspect of our very being, in fact our whole experiences are tranformed into non physical energy, sounds, seeing, touching etc.. thoughts etc, all energy...

So Icke is the son of god.... so am I ... so is everyone. if you accept.. all life is ENERGY..

JO with you seeing the static side of the world, I'd agree people can be very predictable as we are creatures of habbit, psychologists can map out a childs given likely outcome in adulthood based on the childs emotional exposure to life at that point. nature ,nurture bebate.. definatley products of our environment I feel.. but with conscious evolution, the possibility to reprogram ourselves and develop our psychological age. But with psychology its desperately still a new art, as many arguments for and against why people behave the way they do.. its not black and white as I first thought it was....

jd.

lol Im sure Mr Icke will look back at his temporary existence in his form and proudly say.... I spoke my mind...and ohhh how the masses laughed..

is he right or wrong? irrelevent... he just is.. fair play Dave..

 

[JumpOff]

I googled David Icke and came back with some lizard breeding illuminati theory that seemed pretty far fetched to me. Not sure what any of it has to do with getting better at trading...
JO

 

[jsd]

Hi JO well i posted the above just to give skant detail on Mr Icke...(sidetracking)

but hes certainly thinking freely well outside Crowd beliefs, all our experience of life, The Markets. consist of non physical energy being charged positively or negatively ,leading to experiences which can be Hghly charged with emotion either way. Douglas comments on how we bring to trading all our programmed beliefs of a structured society and attempt to trade using those rigid belifs in an environment that is far from structured, rigid etc... we all have exposure to experiences potentially highly charged with emotion from birth , some say a person is set personality wise within the first 5 years of life, hence its very important that parents need to be VERY aware of how they interact and communicate with minors.. but.. you dont need a licence to have kids so anything and everything goes

how many people are in professions that the parents shoved them into because the parents view is wow a solicitor, doctor, accountantant etc.... many then grow up and resent their enforced role, not wanting to let parents and peers down, expectations, tuts of disapproval... some find the strength to review it, change role , some breakdown with the emotion of it and fear of what others "must" think. Its all down to manipulation, that abounds . getting someone to conform to ideas and another persons beliefs, that clearly do not sit comfortably within their own belief system.... whose life is it anyway? the parents? or the offspring? Exactly. but egos need? to be fed, some NEED to consume more than others to feel satisfied.. Its no good blaming anyone as the parents were once fledglings themselves, having their beliefs installed by their own parent figures and their own exposure to life experience charged with positive and negative emotions...

Governments using subtle manipulation or overt in your face manipulation to control populations? Course they do, they have to.. an angry crowd soon instinctively drops back to pack mentality. Nature of the beast. Until the masses are able to hold difference of opinion within a group and become free from fear of what others think, then people will continue to slay others in one form or another.

I suppose we should be open to listen, SUSPEND OUR BELIEFS, then we may learn something which may enhance our existence or enable us to "see things differently" ?

Dont take my word for it, go and find out for yourself.

jd

 

[Roberto]

hes certainly thinking freely well outside Crowd beliefs, all our experience of life

He is indeed. He firmly believes, among other things, that the British royal family are descended from lizards who came here from another planet. Are you advising me to suspend my belief that he's mistaken about this?

 

[sulong]

#2 As a result of my own stupid carelessness, I had a couple of close brushes with what should have been fatal accidents - and by pure luck, I walked away unscathed both times.

Did it help or hinder your ability to learn about trading?
JO

Why do you assume it was "luck" that saved you?

Perhaps you, in some way, prepared yourself for that kind of emergency, and you reacted the way you had prepared to.

If it was me, thats the area that I would explore.

 

[jsd]

Are you advising me to suspend my belief that he's mistaken about this?

nope.. its your life, your experience we must find out for ourselves and be responsible for our own actions or in-actions, whether that be following advice from others or our own creative resources.

err, how do you believe we came to populate this planet? I must admit the lizard theory probably carries more weight than the Adam and Eve theory, what about the theory we came from the sea? hohoho bing bang, apes , aliens. impossible the earth was round at one stage ehh... until people developed a new way of "seeing things" The earth was the centre of the universe. hmmm err well not quite.. ? the catholic church only did a yewwie on that theory relatively recently 10/20 years back.

to be honest ive not followed Ike or read his stuff apart from the skant web find on his first page ,and I only posted that because someone enquired about Ike,so im the first to admit im very ignorant regarding his own current beliefs, but i will have another look at his web page because I was chuckling at some of his human comments half way down... but whatever "dress label" or ID tag, name label we choose to attach, you cannot dismiss the science fact of energy.

as we begin to develop our conscious evolution , being open to learn new ways of seeing things , you cannot be open if your belief system, says, no, no, no, bugger off i dont want to hear it...and it remains shut, filters out whats happening in right in front of you in order for you to re-enforce your beliefs already in place.

People do not generally find questioning their own beliefs comfortable. but we love to question the beliefs of others, no harm in that if the point is to be open to possible new ways of seeing things to aid evolution.


keep your belief that hes mistaken if you choose to, its not about right or wrong but about being open, to position yourself to allow new information and ideas (which are present in our environment yet remains unseen) to be available for you to "see"


as the quote goes "The mind is a terrible thing to close"

jd

 

[JumpOff]

Why do you assume it was "luck" that saved you?

Perhaps you, in some way, prepared yourself for that kind of emergency, and you reacted the way you had prepared to.

If it was me, thats the area that I would explore.

Hmmm, I never considered that I was prepared for those events. I had always assumed I was just randomly lucky to be alive, because both situations could have easily gone the other way for me. although I was proactive in both situations, it isn't clear to me that my actions dramatically altered the outcome. I'll have to chew on this idea for a while..
JO

 

[Windlesham1]

looks like a lot of mid-life crises here! Ethereal matters aside,the market HAS changed-there is NO volatility anymore,the perception of risk has all but vanished. I would be among the first to confess to believing in AQ and the idea of an organised global terror network,but if it was real,the market would have the jitters,and it patently doesn't.So what's really changed? We have a new era of complacency,and you fight the herd at your peril-but for me the risk/reward ratio went to hell in a handcart-too much risk too little reward.

 

[Salty Gibbon]

When I was young I used to care about most things happening in the world.

These days I don't give a ****.

Just carry on whatever !!

We are born and we die.

Just enjoy the in between bit as much as possible.

 

[chump]

LOL...Salty you're brightness itself today

OK..here's mine...many (too many) years ago it occurred to me that we (mankind) are basically amoeba with legs...working from that to stay ahead of the game all I had to do was concentrate on doing very simple things well..because NO ONE does the complex stuff well (they just think they do until they find out it was just luck)...

 

[Salty Gibbon]

Yeah Chump

I guess I'm old enough now to cut through all the bulls**t crap and see things for what they really are.

 

[JumpOff]

looks like a lot of mid-life crises here! Ethereal matters aside,the market HAS changed-there is NO volatility anymore,the perception of risk has all but vanished. I would be among the first to confess to believing in AQ and the idea of an organised global terror network,but if it was real,the market would have the jitters,and it patently doesn't.So what's really changed? We have a new era of complacency,and you fight the herd at your peril-but for me the risk/reward ratio went to hell in a handcart-too much risk too little reward.

NO volatility anymore? What market are you talking about? If your favorite instrument is dull, why not switch over to currencies or petroleum products that are moving?
JO

 

[Windlesham1]

just caught up with this board-currencies are the new rock and roll and I note that many traders are getting it horribly wrong,and the leverage can be massive. For us retail punters trading commodities is a whole other ball game,and would mean a complete change of trading style. I like the stock market-mostly.but the volatility in put options has gone from 28%(March 2003) to 9% currently.The risk remains as great as always,it's just that there are too many sellers.

 

[JumpOff]

Ahem... ,
Wonder if we could get back on the topic - how to get into and stay into learning mode. - For me, the times of greatest learning were precipitated by events beyond my control - events that caused me to 'look anew'. Do any of you have any exercises, practices, meditations, etc. that you feel contribute to your ability to see things afresh? Do you set aside a part of your day or week to study new material?

If you have a system that is working well, - do you avoid these activities? I would be tempted to leave well enough alone if I were in that circumstance!
Jo

 

[TheBramble]

JO - I have a large number of interests and activities outside of trading. They change from time to time. I think like most people I have a 'core' set of things I like to involve myself in, but the stream of interest on the periphery changes (for me) over time.

It would be counter-productive I believe to deliberately set out to maintain whatever the 'status quo' is for you at any point in time just because you're currently where you want to be and happy with where you're at, if it wasn't the 'status quo' that got you there in the first place. After all, just how happy do you think you can bear to be? If you didn't know when you started out on the path that got you to where you are now just how good it was going to be, how do you know just how much better it could get?

As for events which change your worldview - totally agree - there are priceless lessons to be learnt - even (especially?) from the most severe and initially unprepossessing sets of circumstances. But as for specifically encouraging these events, there is a protective mechanism which prevents the vast majority (including me!) from doing things so far outside the envelope to challenge my worldview to the point of making a profound difference.

Otherwise everyone would be busy reinventing themselves all over the place. The mass of Humanity takes comfort in the known and the 'normal'.

 

[Windlesham1]

Quite rightly I am rebuked for straying off topic. I think what I'm trying to say is that 'updating' your view is everything-one of my brokers is constantly banging on about the Yanks,and how it's all bogus,and the market is going to dump any moment. We traders don't have that luxury,as we trade our own money and don't eat if we get it wrong. So there is the double-edged sword of being wrongfooted by the broker(often),and going against the broker and thus subtley changing the relationship-which should be like a team. It's hard enough to trade without having to get around your brokers' prejudices.Even harder to trade with no human feedback at all!