97% Spread Betters lose their money!

CityTrader - I have questioned my local tax office at length on the issue. They can class people as "professional gambler". They would only normally consider doing this if such a person had no other taxable income. Their basic rule of thumb is based around what they call "subsistance" - this is the amount of money that it takes to basically live off. If you clearly have a taxable income from which you draw your money for 'subsistance' then the IR will probabally never chase you over spreadbet winnings. If however you attempt to live on income purely drawn from 'betting' then you can be titled as a 'professional gambler'. You local tax office will detect you because you arent making any tax contributions. My tax office have told me that there are people living in my tax office area which fall into this catagory so the situation would appear to be more than a hypothetical.
 
Last edited:
If DC2000 says PWC claim SB profits are taxable (either partly or fully) it shouldn't be too difficult for any other t2w member who uses PWC to corroborate this piece of corporate advice.

Or for any t2w member who uses any other large accountancy firm to do likewise.

The fact that there were recent rumours that Gordon Brown was considering making SB winnings taxable would indicate (though not prove, I admit) that the current situation was as is held by all except DC200.
 
stevespray said:
If you clearly have a taxable income from which you draw your money for 'subsistance' then the IR will probabally never chase you over spreadbet winnings.

Cat among the pigeons SS - interesting point.

On the basis that IR may be browsing (bless them) what would the hypothetical situation be if you were to draw 'subsistence' income, paying minimal tax from a company set up precisely for that purpose, say in compensation for your 'consultancy' services?

Naturally, the company would expect an almost similar (or perhaps slightly larger) compensation in return to cover their admin costs.

I wonder if any of the more gifted tax/corporate law types here could suggest a workable and of course hypothetical, outline solution along those lines?
 
All we need is to produce someone who actually pays tax on their SB winnings, and the argument is solved.

There's the theory, which all accountants spout (to protect their own backsides). And then there's the actual practice as carried out by the Inland Revenue. Chalk and cheese.
 
Skimbleshanks said:
All we need is to produce someone who actually pays tax on their SB winnings, and the argument is solved.

But would that prove they were liable to pay tax?

They could have been incorrectly advised by their accountants.
 
CityTrader – I’d also like to make a few comments in response to your posts at around 8.30am this morning.

Firstly, yes I’m sure you’re correct, maybe some punters do get special numbers because the place high value trades. This is probably as much in the interest of the spread agent as it is the punter. If the same small group of traders regularly place large bets then the spread agents are on to a winner from the start, the agent doesn’t need to bet against the customer to make his money, he can make a stack simply on offering the customer a price very slightly worse than it costs the lay the position off. You will quite often find that these bigger positions also carry ‘special terms’ which can be attached by the company to the bet when the bet is opened. These ‘special terms’ normally mean that you cant just ring up and simply close the position, you have to inform the company that you want to close and they will close the position and then inform you of the closing price based on volume weighted average (plus their little bit of spread of course). There, of course, could therefore be a clear distinction between these ‘high rollers’ and the normal punter.

Secondly, what you say about prices moving because of other people trading in front of you could be true in the ‘real’ market where every bid & offer has volume also attached to it. Spreadbetting is slightly different in the fact that its prices are based on an outside market rather than their own market activity. Having read your various posts I can tell you that I respect your knowledge of market making, 18 years is a long time in any trade and I guess you must have encountered many different things. The point I would make however, speaking as someone with many years of both market and spreadbet experience, is that IG Index attempt to procure business based on the claims they make in their advertising. These claims like “Genuine one click dealing” , “The price you see is the price you get” and “Live, tradable prices” are all claims made about the service that they are prepared to offer. I would therefore suggest that people such as yourself and myself with the relevant inside knowledge of how markets work would be able to understand what systems and procedures IG must have in place to offer the services that they are advertising. For example, I would say that if they hold orders in a queue for an unspecified period of time and then decide that orders cant be filled because the market has moved in that time then they can’t claim that ‘the price you see is the price you get’ purely because any movement in the market price between your order being submitted and your order being reviewed can and does result in your order being refused – therefore their advertising is completely false and misleading because we know that the procedures which go on behind the scenes do not support the claims made in advertising. Also, added to this, is the fact that the T&C clearly state that all comparisons which relate to order rejection must be made based on the prices quoted “at the time I submit my order” – this part of the T&C clearly supports the advertising claims but IG Index are not prepared to follow their own T&C and when pressed on the matter their legal department are prepared to claim, in a letter to me which I am prepared to make public, that there are extra terms or conditions which are not listed in the customer agreement. This claim was in fact a complete lie and, as I think I mentioned previously, compliance have confirmed that there are no extra terms or conditions. This appears to me to show complete contempt right up to the highest level. I have been informed that the head of the legal is a board member.

Steve.
 
Ok City Trader I appologise for my tone it was just your statement about SBs wanting large punters to win did enrage me. but then the subject of spreadbetting is an emotive one.

Dont get me wrong SBs do have a role to play within market trading they are an excellent starting point and I do have a liking for city index though I think that is more to do with the fact that Tom has asked me to program a variation of my trading software for him.

With regard to the tax situation I would be interested to hear of the outcome of your case the advise given to me was to trade direct market because where the Inland revenue could prove that your primary source of income was from trading be it direct or via SBs there would be a liability for UK income tax. I am not talking of just subsistence levels. Iguess that would be akin to professional gambler situation
 
dc2000 said:


Forgot to add to my knowledge PWC dont have any offices above chip shops allthough you may know different

PWC,
112a High Road ( above chippy)
Scunthorpe
sc1 5lt

Sorry- couldn't resist that!

If I thought It was a certainty that I'd be laible for tax, then I would never SB again- every trade I made would be via CFD's. I'm still hoping that the tax situation will prove negative. I will of course let everyone on here know of the outcome ( assuming there ever is one!)


Ultimately I really don't want to be seen as a keen advocate of the SB firms . I like them as we have mutual respect for each other. I know how frustrating it is to deal with them, I know how easy it is to blame them - so I guess trying to defend them on here is always going to be like pissing into the wind! So, SS I agree - go for it! keep us in touch with the outcome?

W

p.s. someone has to play Devils advocate!
 
Last edited:
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the spreadbetters advertise something along the lines of "Spreadbetting is free from CGT under current uk law".........no mention is made to income tax.
It's also my understanding that if you were a pro trader that used direct access or cfd's then any net profit would be subject to income tax rather than CGT. CGT is used purely to top slice any 'lucky' gain that a UK domicile might make.

Steve (getting slightly political on a saturday night)
 
stevespray,

Ive seen some adverts state 'free from Income tax & CGT' aswell,
the reason that most state CGT only is because traditional share
trading is subject to CGT, why state free from income tax
when normal share trading is free from that anyway?

Also there is a big difference (as far as tax law is concered)
between people gambling against other people (in a game of
poker for example) and people gambling against bookmakers.
So i would expect people who are classed under 'professional
gambler' status to fall under the first not the later.

And also dont take the word of your local tax office as
being correct, these guys are very biased and dont
understand all the specifics, believe me!
 
Last edited:
“Despite your order being valid at the time it was submitted there was sufficient movement on our order book while you order was being routed to a dealer for the dealer to consider the price incorrect by the time he came to review your order”.
'So they have admitted that the reason for my order being refused is directly due to the market having moved while I was in the queue.'

But Steve that's the limitation of a the queueing system. You have to accept it. Pop and drop or pop and flop, moves will have everyone running to cover their positions, knowing the queueing system, you can't possibly hope to get your ordered filled at the screen price, unless IG categorically guarantee execution at quoted price. That's the issue, do they guarantee price at time of execution irrespective of length of time dealer takes to confirm, can that be, if the interface asks you to wait for confirmation?.

IG state April 03 on release of new trading platform, that 'We have built a dealing platform tailored to the precise needs of the spread betting community. A truly automated system, offering real-time prices and live updates of your open positions. With IG Index real-time means real-time, so the price you see is the price you get.' This is a question of semantics. When they say 'the price you get' they mean the price submitted for confirmation. They are simply talking up the speed of their platform.

At this stage I point out to compliance that according to the T&C this is not grounds for order refusal as the price was in no way invalid at the time it was submitted

there is a prerequisite set out in term 5(4) of the customer agreement which states that in order to reserve the right to refuse my order fault has to be found with that order based on the price of the quote “at the time the order is submitted” and IG have already admitted that the order was refused due to price movements after that time. Of course IG also advertise “The price you see is the price you get” on the website so I would also ask the question “Why would they advertise this ?”, its clearly to promote an aspect of their service which they claim they will provide.

What it actually states in 5.4 is 'If any of the conditions set out in Term 5.5 are not satisfied at the time you offer to enter into or close a Bet we reserve the right not to accept your offer at the level quoted.' It then goes on in 5(b) 'the quote must not be expressed to be given on an "indicative only" basis;' , 5(d) 'if you obtain the quote electronically via the client pages on our Internet website(s) ... your offer to open or close the Bet must be given whilst the quote is still valid ;' 5(e) 'the quote must not be manifestly erroneous;'

It also states in 5.3 'Our quoting of a higher and lower figure for each index(whether by telephone, Internet or otherwise) does not constitute an offer by us to enter into a Bet at those levels. A Bet will be initiated by you offering to enter into a Bet with us on an index at the level quoted by us. We may accept or reject your offer at any time until the Bet has been executed or we have acknowledged that offer has been withdrawn . A Bet will be deemed to have been entered into between us or closed only when your offer has been received and accepted by us.'

It continues 'Quotes displayed ...are only indicative and you acknowledge that we may not accept any offer to open or close a Bet at the level of such indicative quotes'

Steve IG have enough in T&C to cover themselves- The quote on the screen is always indicative until confirmed, only on the phone if a dealer quotes you, is it no longer indicative. When using electronic means, the offer must be given whilst the quote is still valid, since the quote is only ever indicative they can argue the definition of 'valid' until the cows come home. The quote being erroneous allows them the leeway in fast markets where their platform can't keep up.

When they say 'Bet must be given whilst the quote is still valid' , the 'given' part refers to the whole process, including receiving it as far as they are concerned, once received they can act on it. That it why there is a separate clause for electronic orders, it acknowledges the limitation of the trading platform. That's the only way you can make sense of it, while prices are indicative. The price is indicative of what you will get, not absolute.

'Secondly, what you say about prices moving because of other people trading in front of you could be true in the ‘real’ market where every bid & offer has volume also attached to it. Spread betting is slightly different in the fact that its prices are based on an outside market rather than their own market activity.'

Absolutely wrong. In IG's T&C, no.5.1 it states 'The figures we quote will be in respect of the level of our index and not the level of an Underlying Market, and you acknowledge that the level of our Index may be different from the level of an Underlying Market.'

'The prices quoted were perfectly in line with the prices being quoted by the other spreadbet agents at that time.'

5.1 makes that irrelevant.

But Steve this errant trade aside, do you make money with SB, or are your losses down to repeated 'tricks'? You earlier argued the case that you can't make money SBing, are you saying that every profit you had was taken from you in bad faith? Whatever the outcome of this incident, I don't buy the argument that SB firms use tricks to make profit, it just wouldn't pay enough.

But the argument that you cannot make money because SB firms make money by defrauding you, doesn't hold, and is not helpful to new comers. Returning to original thread point, 97% fail to make money for many reasons, but deliberate actions in bad faith by SB firms, are only a small part of the causes. As stated before day trading fast markets has it's inherent dangers, notably the trading platforms short comings. This is the message we should put out to new traders. Having said that Steve, I hope you get a satisfactory resolution, but maybe put this one down to experience.

Looking at some Cantor Index post sent this morning, they talk about 'your trade is executed instantaneously whether online or phone' gave me the impression that when you fire the button that is what you get, but no it is still subject to dealer confirmation, the T&C state that advertised prices are an indication only, though they try to ensure otherwise, speaking with their dealers it seems that CI have upgraded their system and increased the staff to make sure that people are not are kept waiting till Christmas to get their position executed.

Something that had completely slipped my mind until I reread it today, Cantor Index aim to hedge all clients positions in the underlying market, so want you to win. Can anyone contradict me, as my hard copy of Cantor is 2 years old plus? If this is the case, is the whole thread just going round in circles? If it's the case shouldn't we all be trading Cantor, rather than our positions being offset against each other as is the bookmakers practise? Cantor only offer quarterly contracts on the sectors that I trade, but they say this may all change in the coming weeks. I had a slightly confusing conversation with one of the dealers, regarding quote execution, only later did it make sense. I couldn't understand the 'angle' of the conversation, until it dawned on me, she was talking from a position of hedging my trades. Anybody trade with Cantor?
 
Zig – You need to read these IG Index Terms and Conditions carefully otherwise the wrong conclusions can be jumped to. Let me try and answer a few of your points.

Firstly the business of ‘indicative prices’. IG do infact lay out which prices are indicative and which prices are ‘quotes’. Lets look at the relevant part of 5(3) again.

“Quotes displayed by us on any television or text service, via other pages on our internet websites, or via any other medium are only indicative and you acknowledge that we may not accept any offer to open or close a Bet at the level of such indicative quotes.”

This is stating what ‘indicative quotes’ are. Please note the key word ‘other’ when it states “other pages on our internet websites” it means pages outside of the client area.

This is backed up by ……

“Subject to Term 5(2) we will provide a quote directly to you either orally by telephone or electronically via the client pages on our internet website(s) or by such other means as we may from time to time notify to you.”

This is stating that prices obtained from the client area are indeed quotes and at no point do they state that these client area prices are indicative, in fact, the T&C at this point set out to clearly define the difference between ‘indicative quotes’ and ‘quotes’.

“Our quoting of a higher and lower figure for each Index (whether by telephone, internet or otherwise) does not constitute an offer by us to enter into a Bet at those levels. A Bet will be initiated by you offering to enter into a Bet with us on an Index at the level quoted by us. We may accept or reject your offer at any time until the Bet has been executed or we have acknowledged that your offer has been withdrawn.”

I acknowledge this part of 5(3) and have no problems with it. It is stating that I have to make the offer and them the acceptance. It then goes on to say that they may accept or reject my offer at anytime until either I withdraw the offer (which in fact can’t be done via the client area – there is no cancel button) or the bet is executed. Again, no problems with this, it is purely talking about timing of acceptance and rejection and telling me that I can withdraw my offer anytime.

You your self state “It continues 'Quotes displayed ...are only indicative and you acknowledge that we may not accept any offer to open or close a Bet at the level of such indicative quotes'” – You have taken words out to make it say what you want. What it actually does say I have already covered. As I said, the key word is “other” meaning pages not inside the client area. Prices inside the client area are ‘quotes’ and are not stated as indicative. It’s one of those finite points which I was talking about. So the quotes on the screen are not “always indicative”.

As I mentioned in a previous post, 5(4) is the important bit and it states….
“If any of the conditions set out in Term 5(5) are not satisfied at the time you offer to enter into or close a Bet we reserve the right not to accept your offer at the level quoted. If we have, nevertheless, already opened or closed a Bet prior to becoming aware of any breach of the conditions set out in Term 5(5) we may, at our absolute discretion, either treat such a Bet as void from the outset or close it at our then prevailing price. However, we may in our absolute discretion allow you to open or, as the case may be, close the Bet in which case you will be bound by the opening or closure of such Bet, notwithstanding that the conditions in Term 5(5) were not satisfied.”

As I have already pointed out the key text in this whole argument is “If any of the conditions set out in Term 5(5) are not satisfied at the time you offer to enter into or close a Bet we reserve the right not to accept your offer at the level quoted.”

It is clear to see that in order to refuse a bet they must first ‘reserve the right not to accept the bet at the level quoted’ – They can only do this by finding that the bet didn’t satisfy all the terms of 5(5) “AT THE TIME THE OFFER WAS SUBMITTED” – That is the key bit.

So as you can now see, 5(3) lays out the timings and stated that they can take as long as the want to respond to an order but 5(4) clearly lays out the criteria for bet rejection and clearly states that the relevant time for price comparisons is based on prices at the time the order was submitted and not sometime later when the dealer gets around to dealing with my order. This is the bit IG choose to ignore in several responses to me. They have since that time agreed that this is relevant but the legal department claim that there are more reasons in 5(5) than are actually listed in the document. The compliance department say that there are no extra terms and conditions but claim that their hands are tied.

Zig – most of what you have written here has already been thrown at me hence why I have already cut through it, IG even acknowledge this for the most part. What they are doing is still refusing to act correctly because they know that I’m going to have to work hard to point out all the finite details such as the ones you have raised. If I was successful in my case then they know that it could open a can of worms as dealers are always wrongly advising customers regarding T&C and often refusing orders which customers could claim they have a right to.

Another thing on the side of the customer is their advertising claims which you obviously touch on. If they advertise “The price you see is the price you get” , “Genuine one click dealing” and also say that prices are “dealable prices”. Contractual law is such that I can rely on claims made in advertising as being contractual obligation and advertising law states that they can’t advertise a product or service as being something and then withdraw that something in small print which is, in effect, what you are acknowledging they are trying to do.

In answer to your question surrounding making money. The answer is most certainly ‘yes’, I do make money spread betting. The whole point I was making however is that these companies can and do detect winners and start to treat them differently, this difference is clearly to the detriment of the customer (as you can see). This difference can make the difference between winning longer term or losing. My case against IG is just showing people that the tricks or ‘differences’ would appear to be in breach of what they say they will do in the T&C or in their advertising.

Let me tell you about a similar incident again involving daily dow. I basically attempted to buy the daily dow as it was falling. I submitted my order to buy and was queued over 1 minute. In that time the dow dropped a further 20 – 30 points. After that period they excepted my order and in an instant my open positions was showing that I was down over £2,000. You see how, by using the same procedure of queuing, IG have extracted an advantage and in this case decided to fill my order despite the fact the market was now a great deal lower. In both the cases that I have outlined IG have gained an advantage by placing my order in a queue instead of just filling my order.

Steve.
 
Steve
I concede on the point about what they classify as 'indicative', I don't use IG, with D4F I am always in a 'client area'.

I am trying hard to play devil's advocate. I agree that quoted prices should be honoured, but that ignores the weakness of their business model. They don't offer instant execution of trades, period.

I acknowledge this part of 5(3) and have no problems with it. It is stating that I have to make the offer and them the acceptance. It then goes on to say that they may accept or reject my offer at anytime until either I withdraw the offer (which in fact can’t be done via the client area – there is no cancel button) or the bet is executed. Again, no problems with this, it is purely talking about timing of acceptance and rejection and telling me that I can withdraw my offer anytime.

It isn't talking about 'timing', it refers to the client 'initiating' a trade, therefore that the quote is only the beginning of that process.

It is clear to see that in order to refuse a bet they must first ‘reserve the right not to accept the bet at the level quoted’ – They can only do this by finding that the bet didn’t satisfy all the terms of 5(5) “AT THE TIME THE OFFER WAS SUBMITTED” – That is the key bit.

5.5(d) states 'if you obtain the quote...via the client pages...., your offer to open or close the Bet must be given whilst the quote is still valid'. This gives them the right to refuse your offer, by the time you get to the end of the queue, it is no longer valid, so they re-quote. This they can do, as no claim is made that 'offer' of bets means instant execution.

Another thing on the side of the customer is their advertising claims which you obviously touch on. If they advertise “The price you see is the price you get” , “Genuine one click dealing” and also say that prices are “dealable prices”.

All this is subject to 'confirmation', 5.3.

The whole point I was making however is that these companies can and do detect winners and start to treat them differently, this difference is clearly to the detriment of the customer (as you can see).

The problem is you site examples of apparently being cheated, in fast markets. Those of us who are winners, but play for larger points in slower markets, don't suffer these problems. You suspect a conspiracy against you, when in fact it is an issue unique to fast markets.

Spread betting is slightly different in the fact that its prices are based on an outside market rather than their own market activity.'

'The prices quoted were perfectly in line with the prices being quoted by the other spreadbet agents at that time.'

You ignore 5.1, it states 'The figures we quote will be in respect of the level of our index and not the level of an Underlying Market, and you acknowledge that the level of our Index may be different from the level of an Underlying Market.' And because you ignore this you believe that IG should offer spreads close to the underlying at all times, instantaneously, when in fact all they can do is cover their position as the market gets loaded one side. The very reason they have a system of confirmation, is that they can see where the market is in relation to their prices and cover themselves. The limitation will always be how quick the dealers are, as the underlying races off. If they have one click dealing that doesn't exempt you from needing confirmation. It's a form of slippage, that is inherent in the their business model. They don't have to accept your offer if it is no longer valid as the underlying has moved in the time that it has taken to confirm. 5.5(d) doesn't refer to phone quotes, but electronically generated, 'whilst the quote is still valid' acknowledges that the execution process may risk making the quote invalid, and necessitate a re-quote.

That is my interpretation anyway, though I agree that IG gives people the impression that their platform is instantaneous, and will honour the quote whenever, but to argue that 'queueing' clients is a deliberate profit ploy needs further proof.

If they're giving you 'new' conditions as justification, then that is different.

Saying that they had to re-quote because the underlying moved, is not the same as saying they want it all their own way, but that they couldn't get dealers to cover their positions quick enough, not deceitful, but unfortunate.

For any new comer trying to glean something from this convoluted thread, one would have to say don't scalp in fast markets, as you will be played off other clients positions, not only losing to a changing underlying market, but also to SB firm's need to balance the books.

This leads me onto a conversation I had this morning with another one of Cantor Index's staff. I think this was the forth person I was speaking with, and all have been very helpful and willing to talk at length! That makes a change. I wanted confirmation that they hedge all clients positions. Yep, they do. Right next door to the Cantor SB office is the Cantor Fitzgerald, which takes the hedge to the market. The chap explained that the initial business model they developed was to protect themselves, but it just so happens that the fringe benefit is that they are happy for the client to 'win'. The spreads they offer should in theory remain tight to the underlying and not run off as clients load up on one side, as they don't hedge client to client. There are plans to bring more rolling cash markets by the summer.

Would Cantor Index be the one way of improving the 97% figure?
 
Zig – okay , you are playing devils advocate , I don’t have a problem with that, it just gives me a chance to practice my skills in explaining what is written.

You write…..

“5.5(d) states 'if you obtain the quote...via the client pages...., your offer to open or close the Bet must be given whilst the quote is still valid'. This gives them the right to refuse your offer, by the time you get to the end of the queue, it is no longer valid, so they re-quote. This they can do, as no claim is made that 'offer' of bets means instant execution.”

The key bit here is “your offer to open or close the Bet must be given whilst the quote is still valid”, and the key word in that passage is “GIVEN”. When I ‘gave’ my order the quote was valid – IG doesn’t dispute this fact. For your argument to be correct the word would have to be “received” and even then it would be possible to argue that as soon as I get an order reference back (about 1 second after I submit the order) that IG have ‘received’ my order.

In a letter to me IG Index actually state that none of the terms and conditions which make up 5(5) are relevant to my situation, they acknowledge that they cant fail my order under those terms which are listed. As I have already mentioned, the head of the legal department states that there other reasons not listed in the T&C that IG are allowed to use to ‘reserve the right to refuse my bet at the level quoted’. I’ve asked IG to furnish me with these ‘extra’ terms or conditions but as of yet they have failed to do so. As I’ve also mentioned before, the T&C are stated as governing ALL business between us so I can claim that I’m not interested about ‘extra’ terms because they don’t make up the document that “governs all business between us”.

I’ve spoken to compliance and technical at length about term 5(5)(d) and their interpretation is the same as mine. I’ll attempt to explain.
Its there to protect IG from problems with its systems or with internet delays which can occur when you are trying to submit an order. For example, you could send a buy order through, which could be delayed for 5 seconds due to internet traffic or poor bandwidth or an associated problem. If by the time IG receive this order the price has moved beyond a preset tolerance for each index then the order is rejected under 5(5)(d). As I have pointed out in a previous post, I submitted my order and an order reference number was bounced back to me in less than a second. Tech dept tell me that this indicates that there were absolutely no problems with the communications between my computer and theirs.

I’d also like to point out at this point that IG don’t actually offer “requites” as such. You have to simply re-enter another order and see what happens. This brings me onto a further point about the advertising. As a consumer I would claim that IG make certain advertising claims in order to make their platform sound better than that of a competitor. It’s an attempt to procure business by offering a superior service based on the claims made. I take your point that a certain amount of all advertising is down to ‘semantics’ but in this case the claims are clearly made in an attempt to define exactly what the customer can expect. “The price you see is the price you get” can only reasonably interpreted by the customer as being exactly that. You try to make some argument about it being about “the price submitted for conformation” but the advertisement clearly uses the word ‘get’, “the price you see is the price you GET”. If someone asked you “what did you GET for that car you were selling ?”, you’d tell them how much you finally sold it for – ie the final outcome. If IG reject a trade the you clearly didn’t GET the price.
I’d also like you to tell me the difference between “one click dealing” and “genuine one click dealing”. IG advertise “Genuine one click dealing” – the use of the word ‘genuine’ is clearly used to underline the fact that what they are claiming is genuinely true. As soon as they use the word ‘genuine’ there is no room for semantics, they are stating facts. In my case I was unable to close my position in ‘one click’. In another form of advertising they claim something like “You really are only one click away from the market” – again the emphasis is on only needing to enter the deal once. They also claim that prices quoted inside the client area are “Live and tradable”.

The markets I was trading don’t appear to have been that fast. In fact, in both situations that I have mentioned on this thread, the markets were acting as they do on an almost daily basis. The FSA have informed me that the operation of IG’s markets must be “fair and orderly”. I would suggest that they are far from that.

Steve.
 
stevespray,

How many other times have you had a trade refused by IG for reasons you didnt think were right?
 
Just a thought going back to the title of the thread – perhaps SB companies should be required by law to divulge what percentage of their clients lose money in the manner of a ‘financial health warning’……..?

Clearly with the growth of online betting/gambling, and the simple access to it, many people will be tempted by the lure of perceived easy money, and of course the gullible/ inexperienced / incompetent / unlucky / unwary will lose all of their money (or somebody else’s money with the advent of using credit cards to service accounts…. !)

The recent proliferation of SB companies, some divisions of large financial groups, hints at the potential profitability of the business and the many reports of ‘sharp’ practise (on this thread and others!) give a warning of what may lay in store for the unsuspecting ‘punter’………

Food for thought…..?! :confused:

ps - of course, I appreciate that most T2W members are 'aces' making a fortune out of it, and warnings are unnecessary..... ;)
 
Last edited:
Tradesmart - I think you'll find that the spreadbet company would fight tooth and nail to avoid having to disclose such figures. I think Simon (Capital Spreads) has already pointed out that 97% is an outrageous number and I would have to agree with him.

The S/B'ers could also claim of course that percentage numbers like that are unfair on the basis that a customer my simply be using a spreadbet service to hedge a risk. I personally do this often, especially if I'm looking to hedge some options positions.
There are also other strategies which can result in a punter having a run of wins with one company whilst having a losing run with another.

Steve.
 
Top