ZuluTrade

[thepom]

Excuse me pom but arent you a bit off in your calculations there? You calculate the ROI where you put the Net profit in PIPS and you find the invested capital in $??? I dont think you can calculate that in zulu , you dont have the right info for that to see what amount was invested by a provider at the start . So the points you make in a) and b) are wrong. Can you elaborate a bit more about the point in c)? For the last point (d) i guess this is happening because his 2 accounts are using different brokers.

Hellrise.

Look at the far right column of Kama-spots trading history. ( The Total column). One pip = 0ne dollar.

So the points I make in a) and b) are NOT wrong.

In regards to c) then When you look at a Signal Providers number for Amount Following it will say , for example $3,000,000. However, that is the Total amount deposited of every follower (which in most cases is allocated over a number of traders).

For example, if a follower has a total of $50,000 deposited and follows 5 Signal Providers, then each and every one of those SP is credited with $50,000.

So there is a gross overstatement of the Amount Following all the traders.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Hellrise.

Look at the far right column of Kama-spots trading history. ( The Total column). One pip = 0ne dollar.

So the points I make in a) and b) are NOT wrong.

In regards to c) then When you look at a Signal Providers number for Amount Following it will say , for example $3,000,000. However, that is the Total amount deposited of every follower (which in most cases is allocated over a number of traders).

For example, if a follower has a total of $50,000 deposited and follows 5 Signal Providers, then each and every one of those SP is credited with $50,000.

So there is a gross overstatement of the Amount Following all the traders.

I pretty certain the last point is correct

 

[thepom]

Just to set the record straight, I am NOT trying to pour sh1t all over Zulutrade.

As I said as far back as 3rd November 2012, that the whole concept of Zulutrade is brilliant. http://www.trade2win.com/boards/home-trader/88382-zulutrade-117.html#post2005560

I still stand by that statement.

The point that I am trying to get across is that the on-site marketing (using very suspect numbers) by zulutrade is over-exuberant and is bordering on deceptive.

There is a great lack of transparency in how their ROI's (both for traders and for followers) are measured. By any standard measure of ROI for the Traders, their numbers are nonsense.

In relation to the ROI for Followers (copy traders) the numbers appear to be pure fantasy. (See this page

As I said above, I still think that the t the whole concept of Zulutrade is brilliant.
The underlying purpose of the zulutrader site is to have Signal Providers (SP) show how well they can trade SO THAT THEY CAN ATTRACT FOLLOWERS TO COPY THEIR TRADES.
BUT, if the figures being advertised on the Zulutrade site are nonsense, then there is something drastically and fundamentally WRONG. And it needs to be fixed.

To me, from what I have seen and experienced, the numbers presented/advertised on zulutrade appear to be irrationally exuberant.

 

[robbert]

Again, guys, you do not have a live account with the system, and obvoiously all you doing here is some bad math and wrong ajusted math speculations.

@ hellrise,
the port is a big time spammer, do not actually waste time replying to his comments all he is doing is trying to find flaws and nag on stupid things.

 

[hellrise]

prom i think you are wrong again , if you look at the total column in every trader , you will see that there is 1$=1pip everywhere , it doesnt show you the leverage of the trader.

 

[robbert]

ive never noticed that trader before.Very interesting spot,but not a good example of zulus figures. To me if the stats are correct hes doing very well with a very low relative drawdown. I guess he can take 188 trades at the same time because its a live account.but with a 2 pip spread,thats 376 pips adrift before he starts. i would welcome the other regular posters on this thread to look and analyse him.by my reckoning he should be a lot higher

this system is a bit wierd...look at the number of open trades per day - 166, 105 per day..it goes without saying that it is automatic, and as well even though the performance is pretty good, there is an issue on the trades, i perceive them as risky. most probably this is also taken into consideration with the ranking. And when he looses, the numbers are also great after all he is trading with 0.15 pips.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Just to set the record straight, I am NOT trying to pour sh1t all over Zulutrade.

As I said as far back as 3rd November 2012, that the whole concept of Zulutrade is brilliant. http://www.trade2win.com/boards/home-trader/88382-zulutrade-117.html#post2005560

I still stand by that statement.

The point that I am trying to get across is that the on-site marketing (using very suspect numbers) by zulutrade is over-exuberant and is bordering on deceptive.

There is a great lack of transparency in how their ROI's (both for traders and for followers) are measured. By any standard measure of ROI for the Traders, their numbers are nonsense.

In relation to the ROI for Followers (copy traders) the numbers appear to be pure fantasy. (See this page

As I said above, I still think that the t the whole concept of Zulutrade is brilliant.
The underlying purpose of the zulutrader site is to have Signal Providers (SP) show how well they can trade SO THAT THEY CAN ATTRACT FOLLOWERS TO COPY THEIR TRADES.
BUT, if the figures being advertised on the Zulutrade site are nonsense, then there is something drastically and fundamentally WRONG. And it needs to be fixed.

To me, from what I have seen and experienced, the numbers presented/advertised on zulutrade appear to be irrationally exuberant.

your comments and opinions have been thought out and welcome.I see where you are coming from.The fact that we disagree at times about the figures shows there is great room for improvement and transparency on the site

 

[thepom]

prom i think you are wrong again , if you look at the total column in every trader , you will see that there is 1$=1pip everywhere , it doesnt show you the leverage of the trader.

Hellrise,

Compare this trader's pips and dollars. This is Kama-spots other account. (PS He is a very cool trader!)

One pip = TEN dollars

So I am NOT wrong. (Try to be a bit more meticulous in your statements).

 

[hellrise]

Hellrise,

Compare this trader's pips and dollars. This is Kama-spots other account. (PS He is a very cool trader!)

One pip = TEN dollars

So I am NOT wrong. (Try to be a bit more meticulous in your statements).

)) Thats because kama is trading 0.1 lots and saved fx 1 lots. Nothing to do with leverage. For one mini its 1$ per mini lot , and for standard it goes 10 pips per lot. Having different leverage changes that amount (isnt it???). So unless you can prove me wrong i',m still winning this

 

[thepom]

)) Thats because kama is trading 0.1 lots and saved fx 1 lots. Nothing to do with leverage. For one mini its 1$ per mini lot , and for standard it goes 10 pips per lot. Having different leverage changes that amount (isnt it???). So unless you can prove me wrong i',m still winning this

Where in ANY of my posts have I used the word "leverage" ?

It must be terrible to be wrong so often
(For a Senior Member here, you are not very knowledgeable about trading.)

 

[hellrise]

Where in ANY of my posts have I used the word "leverage" ?

It must be terrible to be wrong so often

Never , thats the problem , let me take you back to your post where you calculated the initial amount of traders equity based on profit (in PIPS) and the ROI. Well the reason that i'm arguing with you in the first place is because you CANT CALCULATE that without knowing what leverage was set on trader's account.

 

[thepom]

Never , thats the problem , let me take you back to your post where you calculated the initial amount of traders equity based on profit (in PIPS) and the ROI. Well the reason that i'm arguing with you in the first place is because you CANT CALCULATE that without knowing what leverage was set on trader's account.

You're not the brightest light-bulb in the chandelier, are you?

You need to go back and read that post again.

And, in the case of that trader in that account, One pip = One dollar

 

[The Artist]

thepom,

If I may, I think your analysis is legitimate. As a provider I know for a fact that some of the points you made are in fact accurate.

With regards to point a) however, I do believe there is a mistake in your calculations. The $4307.70 figure is fine and leverage has nothing to do with that, but the 1154% ROI figure is not a period-adjusted figure, it is an annualised one. Therefore you need to recalculate it as a since inception percentage, which would be closer to the 400% mark since Kama-spot has only been trading for 19 weeks, making the initial investment closer to $1000.

In any case, what is fairly opaque is how this initial investment number is calculated by Zulutrade since providers without live accounts (the majority) are not required to provide hypothetical initial capital data, which means that Zulutrade must use certain assumptions to compute it.

 

[hellrise]

OK i made a mistake , leverage has nothing to do with it, i was wrong with that and i admit it. But i stand for the fact that your calculations are still wrong. Adding to the explanation of ROI by the Artist , Kama-spot trades other pairs except EUR/USD and other pairs have a different pip value plus there are rollovers etc. So no you cant take the profit figure in pips and convert it in dollars with the 1pip = 1$ conversion.

 

[The Artist]

other pairs have a different pip value plus there are rollovers etc. So no you cant take the profit figure in pips and convert it in dollars with the 1pip = 1$ conversion.

That's absolutely right. But Zulutrade automatically provides you with the necessary adjustments with the $ amount displayed below the aggregated pips value in the "Total" column. So I didn't pay attention but if he used that number it's fine. I'm sure thepom will let us know.
Actually in Kama-spot's case, the only non-$-denominated pair he trades is USD/CHF and it's fairly close to parity so you would expect the 1pip=$1 conversion to be a good approximation anyway. But that's coincidental and as you said in many cases this would not hold.

 

[thepom]

thepom,

If I may, I think your analysis is legitimate. As a provider I know for a fact that some of the points you made are in fact accurate.

With regards to point a) however, I do believe there is a mistake in your calculations. The $4307.70 figure is fine and leverage has nothing to do with that, but the 1154% ROI figure is not a period-adjusted figure, it is an annualised one. Therefore you need to recalculate it as a since inception percentage, which would be closer to the 400% mark since Kama-spot has only been trading for 19 weeks, making the initial investment closer to $1000.

In any case, what is fairly opaque is how this initial investment number is calculated by Zulutrade since providers without live accounts (the majority) are not required to provide hypothetical initial capital data, which means that Zulutrade must use certain assumptions to compute it.

I agree that Zulutrader has extrapolated a good result over a 19 week period to sex-up the annualised return.
This is what I was saying about how Zulutraders in-site marketers are using to misleading numbers to overhype the Traders results.

I also agree that Zulutrade is fairly opaque about how the initial investment number is calculated It seems that NOBODY knows what those assumptions are. As a result, one can only be very careful when looking at any of the Zulutrader numbers.

The lack of transparency in how Zulutrade calculate their Traders and Followers results (ROI) is a major issue in causing a distrust of the site.

 

[thepom]

OK i made a mistake , leverage has nothing to do with it, i was wrong with that and i admit it. But i stand for the fact that your calculations are still wrong.

It must be disappointing that you believe that everyone else is always wrong.

I bet that when you left school, you had very high expectations of a successful future. You were wrong then too.

 

[hellrise]

@mr every_one_else (aka thepom) lol at least i finished it . Looks like someone else is still there , attending classes and enjoying beeing a smartass. I wish you all the best , high school will be even better!

In other more related news kama continue to impress. He is trading nearly every day with small but steady profits.

 

[robbert]

@mr every_one_else (aka thepom) lol at least i finished it . Looks like someone else is still there , attending classes and enjoying beeing a smartass. I wish you all the best , high school will be even better!

In other more related news kama continue to impress. He is trading nearly every day with small but steady profits.

true and Jason Alan Jankovsky's not doing bad himself as well.
and Claudia and OSTRICH GBP as well.

 

[ezytrendtrader]

true and Jason Alan Jankovsky's not doing bad himself as well.

and Claudia and OSTRICH GBP as well.

I like what Claudia what is doing but her ranking seems to fluctuate a lot..

My fav is Kama ...Being following him for weeks and he is ON FIRE...

The winning streak is ridiculous...