Where is the Dow & others heading in 2005?

Dude I have no idea whether you should close your shorts or not, it's your money, trade it as you see fit The post was not advice, suggestion or indeed even for that matter much in the way of an opinion, it was a question, aimed at people who trade longer-term.
As a intra-day trader it is common practise for me to off-load a substantial part of my position as it approaches significant resistance or support. I have noticed a number of people posting here regarding closing out their short positions and I was wondering if this was common practise among longer term traders what they thought would drive a short squeeze.
 
Point & Figure double bottom perhaps, just outside the 'value zone'? Let's see what tomorrow brings.....good luck all.
 

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Hi Racer, Do you have profits on the shorts ?
If so and in dought close 50 % of your position and take the profits,
the Dow has closed at 10,405 so is very close to a consolidation area at 10375 and the Dow can move up or down from this point as it can be a strong support or a strong resistance Number ( 10,375 )
Protect your Capital first as the future is unknown
this is not trading advice just my view on the Dow
Regards
 
RealMoney by TheStreet.com
Repositioning Before the Selloff
Tuesday March 29, 2:15 pm ET
By Barry Ritholtz, RealMoney.com Contributor


Yesterday morning, I warned clients to use any lift to sell equities. CNBC reported on the call in the afternoon, and many readers have asked for a more detailed explanation.
Last week the market became so oversold that a corrective bounce was due. We saw that move begin in Monday's rally. But don't get too excited yet: I expect this bounce to last a week or so -- two at most -- before the markets start heading south again in a selloff that I expect to last until early summer, and bring the Dow down to the 8,800 to 9,000 level.


As such, I have been advising clients to use any lift as an opportunity to exit most of their long positions. In particular, I have been exhorting managers to sell cyclical, rate-sensitive and high-beta holdings.

I have aggressively sold equities, and I am now about 50% cash. I expect to be in even more cash by next week. If some of the major oils come down enough, I will selectively add to those positions. I'd like to see Interoil (AMEX:IOC - News) at $32-$34 prior to re-entry. I'm also looking for an advantageous entry into gold, including the ETF/Gold Trust (Vancouver:GLD.V - News) -- anywhere between $40-$43. Finally, I am looking for the recent rate rally to sputter out. I am considering buying the iShares Lehman 20-Year-Plus Treasury Bond Fund (AMEX:TLT - News). An entry between $84-$88 is technically warranted, and yields 4.6%. It's as good a place to hide as any.

Individual investors should also take advantage of any better prices to aggressively sell positions that meet those qualifications. I'd also dump individual stocks that have not been behaving well. And as I wrote last week, it is crucial for individual investors to eliminate long margin exposure.

Down near 8800-9000, I would become a buyer again, depending upon circumstances and conditions at that time.

Don't Fight the Rally
Several factors point to a modest but short-lived rally.
From a sentiment perspective, the bulls have gotten scared. AAII now shows bulls at 23%, down from 45% two weeks ago; bears measure 41.9%, a big move up from 24.8% over the same time period. That's simply too bearish, short term.

Other measures also suggest that the market has reached a moderately oversold level. The NYSE oversold indicator, where any reading below -50 is significant, measured 58.12; So too, the NYSE McClellan oscillator reads oversold at -256; anything below -200 is significant there.

Despite all these oversold signals, I remain concerned about the ongoing deterioration in both the internals and the macro environment. The advance/decline Line continues to soften, something that should not be occurring as the market rallies, and the Nasdaq 52-week highs/lows (See chart) also has flipped negative.

High/Low Flips Negative
This is another sign of deteriorating technicals

Longer-term trendlines also have broken and upside moves have been unable to sustain their gains. This is a clear sign that momentum is fading.

The Economic Environment Is Weakening
Now add problems in the macroeconomic environment to the technical deterioration. GDP has softened.
Personal income is not keeping up with price increases, just as consumers have lost the ability to do cash-out refinanced mortgages. (If you are looking for a reason as to why mutual fund flows have been so light, that's as good as any.) Money supply has also been throttled back by the Fed, and the yield curve is flattening.

We now have an oversold market that has not been able to rally on positive news. This reveals an underlying weakness, and possibly a decreasing appetite for equities. The market's complete inability to respond well to the major upside revision from General Electric (NYSE:GE - News) last week suggests a market lacking leadership.

If anything, the market's recent response to positive news reflects a new sentiment shift. A few months ago, economic reports were getting spun positively. Good GDP or employment data meant the economy was expanding; bad data implied that the Fed could stay accommodative and measured for a longer time. That sentiment is now shifting.

Bad data mean the economy is weak, while strong data will only hasten the eventual 50-basis point hike. For further clarification of this sentiment shift, I expect the market reaction to Friday's employment report to be revealing. Is good news bad, or is good news good? We'll find out soon enough.

Lastly, look at what's been occurring in the dollar, gold and oil. The countertrend rallies in these areas are of a short-term, corrective nature. They can run long enough to sucker in traders, but once they resume their prior trends -- dollar down, oil and gold up -- many players will get caught leaning the wrong way. They will be desperate to stop the pain and that will exacerbate the selling in equities.

Plan the Painful Path
So far, the high for the first half of the year was put into place on March 7, with the S&P 500 closing at 1229, and the Dow at 10,984. I suspect that we will not be able to power through those levels, a good 5% higher from yesterday's close. I further suspect a lot of people have been watching those numbers. If we fail there (or lower), here's how I see a likely scenario playing out.
The market won't simply collapse. That would be way too easy. Rather, we could get sandpapered to death, sliding a few days in a row, then rallying a day, on and on until the summer.

By then, there should be enough disgusted investors that the markets can put in a solid, extremely oversold low. That sets up the markets to claw their way back to near break-even by year's end. By December, we should more or less be back to where we are today. Depending upon the circumstances at that time, that may be a particularly advantageous entry point for shorting the markets.

Proving or Disproving the Thesis
Every time I make a forecast or market call, I start with the presumption that I will be wrong. Then, I begin looking for signs that will validate or repudiate the call. So what would prove this market forecast call false? There are several ways that can happen:

First, the markets can sell off faster, and get more deeply oversold at this point than I expect. That would set up a longer, stronger rally then I am presently contemplating.
Second, the markets could break out to the upside, rallying over their March 7 highs on strong volume. Any breakout over the March highs makes this call absolutely wrong. I doubt we would even get a "head-fake breakout." A closing price over the March highs would force me to redeploy capital.
Lastly, we could see a series of improving economic data showing inflation free growth. I don't mean the misleading headlines of unemployment or home sales; I mean honest-to-goodness nonmanipulated growth.
Barring these factors, I expect the market to make a painful descent into the summer and as mentioned previously, I expect the year to finish flat to negative. Consistent with my bear sandwich thesis , a second-half rally will set up an opportunity to get aggressively short into 2006.

Lastly, while everyone suddenly discovered last week that (horror!) producer and consumer prices have been going up, I am becoming increasingly concerned about the macro impact of derivatives. From Fannie Mae (NYSE:FNM - News) to AIG (NYSE:AIG - News) to GE to Bershire Hathaway (AMEX:BRK-A - News), all too many U.S. companies have turned into heavily camouflaged, leveraged hedge funds. Skipping over the esoteric details, I suspect this too, will end badly.

This is an intermediate top call. Take advantage of higher prices, as I expect this rally will run out of steam in early April at the latest. The market risk is a selloff into the summer. Position yourself appropriately this week.
 
A few bounces to correct oversold coming up probably, but doesn't correct overall picture as far as I am concerned.
I am a long term trader and like to take several hundred points not a few here and there daytrading and give the spread to the bookies and pocket pennies
 
SPX managed a new intraday low for the year by a whisker, if this level doesn't hold as support then there is a trendline from Aug '04 at about 1155 and 200 day sma at 1150.

The INDU came within about 28 points of year low and also has 200 day sma at 10376 and if they don't hold, a trendline from the '02 lows at about 10315.

The COMPQ is at levels last seen in early November last year.and is now at 50% retrace from the August 04 lows to the highs this year

Volume today came in about 20% and 30% heavier than yesterday.on the COMPQ and NYSE respectively.
With major economic data due for the rest of the week should be interesting.
 
nice one racer , remember a profit is only real when it is in your hands, be lucky with your position
regards
 
Hi All.
Ducati998, just read your post about where the Dow is headning, excellent interpretation of impending doom. Have to agree with your call though. Things are looking rather "grim" so to speak. Hoping though for a large fallout as one company looks so over priced i find my self scratching my head at its price. Google! and im sure goog weighs heavily on indices. So when the down trend continues, goog will be the mother of all shorts. (hopefully). oops starting to drift off topic. The only downside i see (for the bears that is) would be the "sand paper" effect that ducati998 mentioned where it takes a fall then bounces. That will keep catching traders out. any way that was my 2 cents.

be lucky :D
 
Racer said:
Nas next real support 1900.

Doubt around 1930 for a while though first

Yeah Racer Naz has blown all the support levels the others are just coming into. I really only see fib levels here at 1971 and 61.8% at 1919 then the low of the October range at 1900. I would not be surprised to see the Naz go to 1919, DOW to its primary trendline and SPX to the trendline currently at 1154 ish. Certainly nothing much to support any significant up moves at the moment imho
 
COMPONENTS FOR ^DJI
Symbol Name ...................................Last Trade........................ Change...................... Volume
AA ALCOA INC................................... 29.57 4:02PM ET ............... 0.48(1.60%)............ 7,175,000
AIG AMER INTL GROUP INC ...........58.20 4:02PM ET .............. 1.18 (2.07%)........ 30,036,200
AXP AMER EXPRESS INC................ 50.91 4:00PM ET ............... 0.18 (0.35%)......... 6,415,700
BA BOEING CO ..................................57.25 4:01PM ET ................ 0.85 (1.46%)......... 5,307,900
C CITIGROUP INC ............................44.35 4:01PM ET ............... 0.42 (0.94%) ........17,213,400
CAT CATERPILLAR INC ..................89.80 4:02PM ET............... 4.42 (4.69%)............ 6,167,100
DD DU PONT E I DE NEM............... 50.29 4:01PM ET ............... 0.95 (1.85%)............ 4,051,900
DIS WALT DISNEY-DISNEY C....... 27.90 4:01PM ET ................ 0.27 (0.96%)............ 6,261,800
GE GEN ELECTRIC CO ..................35.53 4:01PM ET ................ 0.44 (1.22%) ..........18,164,900
GM GEN MOTORS ...........................28.61 4:01PM ET................. 0.24 (0.85%).......... 10,767,200
HD HOME DEPOT INC ...................37.69 4:01PM ET .................. 0.90 (2.33%)............ 8,158,500
HON HONEYWELL INTL INC ........36.49 4:00PM ET .................. 0.59 (1.59%) ............5,247,400
HPQ HEWLETT PACKARD CO..... 21.78 4:03PM ET .................. 1.99 (10.06%) .......45,147,100
IBM INTL BUSINESS MACH ..........90.60 4:01PM ET ................... 0.44 (0.48%) ............6,094,000
INTC INTEL CP ...............................23.15 4:00PM ET .................... 0.15 (0.64%).......... 54,032,608
JNJ JOHNSON AND JOHNS DC.. 67.92 4:00PM ET ................... 0.43 (0.63%)............ 9,449,700
JPM JP MORGAN CHASE CO....... 34.58 4:01PM ET ................... 0.27 (0.77%) ..........14,723,700
KO COCA COLA CO THE............... 41.39 4:01PM ET ................... 0.27 (0.66%).......... 5,536,400
MCD MCDONALDS CP ..................31.02 4:01PM ET .................... 0.51 (1.62%) ..........5,417,400
MMM 3M COMPANY ........................84.65 4:02PM ET.................... 0.52 (0.61%) ...........2,753,400
MO ALTRIA GROUP INC................ 64.38 4:01PM ET .................... 0.12 (0.19%) ...........5,438,900
MRK MERCK CO INC..................... 32.01 4:03PM ET ..................... 0.25 (0.79%) ..........7,755,100
MSFT MICROSOFT CP................... 23.92 4:00PM ET .................... 0.28 (1.16%) .........74,679,015
PFE PFIZER INC............................. 25.64 4:00PM ET ..................... 0.59 (2.25%)......... 27,505,400
PG PROCTER GAMBLE CO .........51.86 4:01PM ET..................... 0.65 (1.24%)............ 7,883,300
SBC SBC COMMUNICATIONS.... 23.33 4:02PM ET ..................... 0.16 (0.68%)............. 9,751,700
UTX UNITED TECH...................... 101.46 4:02PM ET .................... 0.46 (0.45%) ............1,730,000
VZ VERIZON COMMUN ..................34.86 4:00PM ET .................... 0.14 (0.40%).......... 12,563,500
WMT WAL MART STORES............ 50.77 4:01PM ET..................... 0.22 (0.43%) ..........13,906,000
XOM EXXON MOBIL CP................. 58.27 4:01PM ET ..................... 0.62 (1.05%).......... 18,974,900
 
Interesting

:cool: Well I must agree with your soundings in general ,having called the falloit in 1987 , I feel we are heading for something similar in nature , how far I have yet to decide ,but I'm certainly making money from many share heading south.
Oh yes if you do need psychiatric help then I'm just the man with 23 yrs in forensic pstchiatry behinh me !

.
LION63 said:
The fundamentals do not support higher stock markets in the US now or into the near future. Unless there is an explosion of earnings, ever higher ratings cannot be justified so at best the markets will mark time around current levels. Tech stocks are already priced for supersonic earnings growth and have little or no yields to talk about so you can discount them on the upside. One minor transaction that recently took place in the sector was the purchase of an IBM subsidiary by a Chinese entity, whilst it might not have grabbed too many headlines, it should start alarm bells ringing. The Chinese can now manufacture their own computers and are no longer reliant on imports (ouch), this means less sales for the likes of Hewlett Packard and Dell.

The telcos are under severe threat from voice over the internet which leads to erosion of margins, falling revenues, redundancies and lower profits. Witness the moves made by Hutchinson in the UK; selling or giving away state of the art phones in order to attract new subscribers.

Who are the latest targets of Elliott Spitzer? The Music industry. They will pay the price like others before them for breaking laws and fleecing the public. Do people ever stop to ask who the losers are in these cases? Shareholders. The drug sector seem to be beset with massive problems, it is like roaches coming out of the woodwork and each week brings another one.

Just as the bulls thought it could not get any worse and Fannie Mae comes along to wreak havoc in the financial sectors. This has the potential of making the woes of the drug sector look like a minor headache and shake the banks' very foundations, at worst, it could lead to a crisis.

How long can the markets ignore the twin deficits; falling dollar; rising commodity prices and the rising number of companies filing for Chapter 11? For those that have been around long enough, it is time to dust off those magazines and books and revisit the 1980s. The Japanese claimed that they could defy gravity and Western style stock valuations did not apply to them, their stock markets were the largest in the world. A few years later, stocks tanked and have continued downwards ever since, they are still over 72% down from their peak. Every now and then, we hear that Japan has turned the corner and it is a new era; new gullible investors get sucked for 6-18 months before finding out that they have ended up with dreadful investments. That cannot and will not happen to us, I hear you say; think again, the Japanese uttered the same words. They tried all the tricks in the book to avoid it but they ultimately failed.

Back to the original question - Where goes the DOW in 2005.

Answer:

Down a black hole. A fall to 6500 would be appropriate and provide fair value (I do not need psychiatric help). Rising interest rates do not bode well for stockmarkets and it is very difficult for shares to rise when bonds are falling.



These are my personal views and you act on them at your peril.

MERRY CHRISTMAS.
 
And we have arrived!!! Into 10300's ...then get ready for the trip back to break the highs..not by much... before the end of June...and when we break the high it will be down hill for the rest of the year. And mabey into 06.
 
I foresee a giant BOOM in biodiesel oil. Vegetable oil at my local supermarket is only 40p a litre !! The farmers will be able to sell as much as they can grow and if the politicians don't tax it out of existence it should be a big growth area for the future.
It burns cleanly - goodbye carbon dioxide pollution .
Our Mid Eastern friends might care to take note ??
Must have a look sometime to see who markets the stuff.......
 
ducati998 said:
COMPONENTS FOR ^DJI
Symbol Name ...................................Last Trade........................ Change...................... Volume
AA ALCOA INC................................... 29.57 4:02PM ET ............... 0.48(1.60%)............ 7,175,000
AIG AMER INTL GROUP INC ...........58.20 4:02PM ET .............. 1.18 (2.07%)........ 30,036,200
AXP AMER EXPRESS INC................ 50.91 4:00PM ET ............... 0.18 (0.35%)......... 6,415,700
BA BOEING CO ..................................57.25 4:01PM ET ................ 0.85 (1.46%)......... 5,307,900
C CITIGROUP INC ............................44.35 4:01PM ET ............... 0.42 (0.94%) ........17,213,400
CAT CATERPILLAR INC ..................89.80 4:02PM ET............... 4.42 (4.69%)............ 6,167,100
DD DU PONT E I DE NEM............... 50.29 4:01PM ET ............... 0.95 (1.85%)............ 4,051,900
DIS WALT DISNEY-DISNEY C....... 27.90 4:01PM ET ................ 0.27 (0.96%)............ 6,261,800
GE GEN ELECTRIC CO ..................35.53 4:01PM ET ................ 0.44 (1.22%) ..........18,164,900
GM GEN MOTORS ...........................28.61 4:01PM ET................. 0.24 (0.85%).......... 10,767,200
HD HOME DEPOT INC ...................37.69 4:01PM ET .................. 0.90 (2.33%)............ 8,158,500
HON HONEYWELL INTL INC ........36.49 4:00PM ET .................. 0.59 (1.59%) ............5,247,400
HPQ HEWLETT PACKARD CO..... 21.78 4:03PM ET .................. 1.99 (10.06%) .......45,147,100
IBM INTL BUSINESS MACH ..........90.60 4:01PM ET ................... 0.44 (0.48%) ............6,094,000
INTC INTEL CP ...............................23.15 4:00PM ET .................... 0.15 (0.64%).......... 54,032,608
JNJ JOHNSON AND JOHNS DC.. 67.92 4:00PM ET ................... 0.43 (0.63%)............ 9,449,700
JPM JP MORGAN CHASE CO....... 34.58 4:01PM ET ................... 0.27 (0.77%) ..........14,723,700
KO COCA COLA CO THE............... 41.39 4:01PM ET ................... 0.27 (0.66%).......... 5,536,400
MCD MCDONALDS CP ..................31.02 4:01PM ET .................... 0.51 (1.62%) ..........5,417,400
MMM 3M COMPANY ........................84.65 4:02PM ET.................... 0.52 (0.61%) ...........2,753,400
MO ALTRIA GROUP INC................ 64.38 4:01PM ET .................... 0.12 (0.19%) ...........5,438,900
MRK MERCK CO INC..................... 32.01 4:03PM ET ..................... 0.25 (0.79%) ..........7,755,100
MSFT MICROSOFT CP................... 23.92 4:00PM ET .................... 0.28 (1.16%) .........74,679,015
PFE PFIZER INC............................. 25.64 4:00PM ET ..................... 0.59 (2.25%)......... 27,505,400
PG PROCTER GAMBLE CO .........51.86 4:01PM ET..................... 0.65 (1.24%)............ 7,883,300
SBC SBC COMMUNICATIONS.... 23.33 4:02PM ET ..................... 0.16 (0.68%)............. 9,751,700
UTX UNITED TECH...................... 101.46 4:02PM ET .................... 0.46 (0.45%) ............1,730,000
VZ VERIZON COMMUN ..................34.86 4:00PM ET .................... 0.14 (0.40%).......... 12,563,500
WMT WAL MART STORES............ 50.77 4:01PM ET..................... 0.22 (0.43%) ..........13,906,000
XOM EXXON MOBIL CP................. 58.27 4:01PM ET ..................... 0.62 (1.05%).......... 18,974,900


thank d998 for the dji components cheers ...sally :cheesy:
 
ketch22 said:
And we have arrived!!! Into 10300's ...then get ready for the trip back to break the highs..not by much... before the end of June...and when we break the high it will be down hill for the rest of the year. And mabey into 06.

An optimistic prediction, but like any in the market anything is possible. The only difficulty maybe in finding a catalyst to drive markets, normally in this sort of climate dumb money will drive the market, and if we had not corrected so far I would say that was a very likely scenario, however the impression I get is that dumb money has been spooked by this drop off the highs and will take quite a bit of convincing to get in again. Dumb money needs positive sentiment and in an envoironment of rising oil, inflation fears and rising interest rates, I don't see a catalyst to improve sentiment. You can see it in the reaction to news, bad news is bad, and good news is bad. NFP comes out on Friday, if we fall short on the number,..bad, as the economy is slowing, but if we come in well above,.....bad, because more people have more money to spend fuelling inflation and causing more Fed tightening. A major dump in oil prices might do the trick, but as yet there is little sign of that. At the moment the path of least resistance is down with the odd bounce imho
 
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