I completely agree with your entire post, Dave. It won't successfully become a "big player" if the staff can't be controlled. This has just got really, really out of control. I suspect that Paul genuinely doesn't realise how many people are concerned about this, and how much they're concerned.DaveJB said:
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In practice, in a large internet forum, if people don't have all the facts then they have no alternative to judging by appearances, have they? Especially if they take the trouble to ask for the facts and are told that "internal matters are private". It's _exactly_ the point I made earlier on today, if you look back at my earlier posts. If you'll excuse the observation, ChartMan, I think you did nobody at all any favours by joining in this embroglio and repeating your accusation. Least of all the company.ChartMan said:
No, Tony did not have multiple nicks - with respect that was NOT proved at all, his explanation was that
two people using his computer seperately had accounts, which is (a) entirely possible, and (b) not against either the rules or the spirit of the rules. I believe Tony's explanation, as do a few others.
Tony did NOT admit he had multiple nicks, he explained how he thought the multiple nick might have occurred, he also said early on that he thought it might relate to his use of an internet cafe... major banks can't avoid online fraud, what makes T2W so **** sure they're right about who is doing what here?
I don't see anything 'moderate' in that post, who exactly is getting flamed here?
Dave
two people using his computer seperately had accounts, which is (a) entirely possible, and (b) not against either the rules or the spirit of the rules. I believe Tony's explanation, as do a few others.
Tony did NOT admit he had multiple nicks, he explained how he thought the multiple nick might have occurred, he also said early on that he thought it might relate to his use of an internet cafe... major banks can't avoid online fraud, what makes T2W so **** sure they're right about who is doing what here?
I don't see anything 'moderate' in that post, who exactly is getting flamed here?
Dave
dr_d_michaelson
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Yes you did.ChartMan said:
No, he didn't.ChartMan said:
No, he didn't. He stated (not "admitted") that his niece had used his PC a few times.ChartMan said:
Do you honestly imagine that you're right and that all these other members are wrong? And even if you do, do you imagine that it was appropriate to say so in this way, compounding the flames? I hope that Mr. Gould will be making these and other points to you tomorrow. If he values his company, he will, anyway.
As a potential client of this company, I'm really deeply DISMAYED by your behaviour and your attitude. I used to enjoy this forum. Neither of my companies will be advertising here in future, and that's final. I hope you enjoy explaining why. Good night and good riddance (I hope).ChartMan said:
Dave, you're splitting hairs, and maybe so am I. There was an ISP that had three ( or more) nicks associated with it.That is multiple nicks. Bramble gave a reasonable explanation as to how/why that may have been and that was accepted. We are only interested in those that have multiple nick for the sole purpose of fraud or misrepresentation.It's all been said before.
Unless someone has something new to say, can we leave it there please.
Unless someone has something new to say, can we leave it there please.
Not by you, it wasn't.ChartMan said:
You keep on and on saying over and over again, even tonight, that he had multiple nicks.
Why do you want to keep fanning the flames in the face of all this hostility and resentment?
Are you actively trying to lose members and clients, or something?
It's absolutely bizarre.
All that you ever needed to do was say openly to Tony "I apologise unreservedly for what I did, and I accept your explanation completely." I've never seen anyone have so many chances, either!
Personally I think you're wrong, howeve I also think this is escalating far beyond the point it should have stopped at, and it's now become an argument that feeds on itself destructively. Invariably at this point one injects a final, telling barb, so in the hope of calming it down I won't.
I will say that I think Chartman made a genuine mistake with Tony, and it is perhaps foolish to sit at the side holding scorecards up to judge the apology, (I never claimed I wasn't foolish) I've said my bit and am now going to resist further posts on the subject for a minimum 24 hrs, as it can only damage T2W and I'd prefer that didn't occur.
Dave
I will say that I think Chartman made a genuine mistake with Tony, and it is perhaps foolish to sit at the side holding scorecards up to judge the apology, (I never claimed I wasn't foolish) I've said my bit and am now going to resist further posts on the subject for a minimum 24 hrs, as it can only damage T2W and I'd prefer that didn't occur.
Dave
Sharky
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(..Moved to T2W Feedback)
I think people are using the term 'multiple nicks' differently here. So let me try and clarify.
I'm sure what Martin is referring to is people who are recorded as having multiple log ins from the same pc. Dave is right, Tony offered a perfectly reasonable explanation as to how it came about that the more than one members was logging in from the same PC. He was unaware this was happening, and in fact that person should not have been logging in and had this whole situation never occured, he'd be none the wiser.
What Dave and others are referring to is the situation where a member is registered under a different username and logging in under different nicknames. Tony never said this was the case, and we have no reason to dispute that. In fact, there was never any association between the two nicks to cause concern.
It seems to me that at the bottom of this whole episode there has been some confusion as to what is meant by the term 'multiple nicks', so let me reiterate.. I can categorically say that to the best of our knowledege Tony does NOT have multiple accounts (in fact I'm certain in my personal opinion that this is the case) and there has NEVER been ANY suspicion of wrongdoing on his part.
I think people are using the term 'multiple nicks' differently here. So let me try and clarify.
I'm sure what Martin is referring to is people who are recorded as having multiple log ins from the same pc. Dave is right, Tony offered a perfectly reasonable explanation as to how it came about that the more than one members was logging in from the same PC. He was unaware this was happening, and in fact that person should not have been logging in and had this whole situation never occured, he'd be none the wiser.
What Dave and others are referring to is the situation where a member is registered under a different username and logging in under different nicknames. Tony never said this was the case, and we have no reason to dispute that. In fact, there was never any association between the two nicks to cause concern.
It seems to me that at the bottom of this whole episode there has been some confusion as to what is meant by the term 'multiple nicks', so let me reiterate.. I can categorically say that to the best of our knowledege Tony does NOT have multiple accounts (in fact I'm certain in my personal opinion that this is the case) and there has NEVER been ANY suspicion of wrongdoing on his part.
tradesmart
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Yeh- but he might be logging in under another nick and having a good laugh at this melodrama.....!......
I hope so.....
Come on the Bramble.........!!
(and did you have a whizzard knocking on your door offering his 'services'.....?)
That would have made it all worth it...........
I hope so.....
Come on the Bramble.........!!
(and did you have a whizzard knocking on your door offering his 'services'.....?)
That would have made it all worth it...........
Lev11
I have access to Tony's personal email, which Tony gave to me several months ago when he email'ed me some attachments which helped me with some research I was working on. I think this also illistrates the type of chap he is.
I will as of 9.30am (18th Nov) this morning email Tony and request his presence on this thread.
I will also assume (unless i hear to the contrary) that if necessary I will cut and paste any comments made on this thread to an email to Tony, that no members will object to this.
Regards Gardan
LevII said:
I have access to Tony's personal email, which Tony gave to me several months ago when he email'ed me some attachments which helped me with some research I was working on. I think this also illistrates the type of chap he is.
I will as of 9.30am (18th Nov) this morning email Tony and request his presence on this thread.
I will also assume (unless i hear to the contrary) that if necessary I will cut and paste any comments made on this thread to an email to Tony, that no members will object to this.
Regards Gardan
ChartMan said:
this just isnt enuff.
i think you should parade round trafalgar square during the xmas party, NAKED with a big banner saying
'im a silly sausage'
failure to comply with this demand will result in me posting even more insane comments all over t2w.
TheBramble
Legendary member
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The "Bramble" Thing
Thanks for the ‘heads up’ (you know who you are).
I would have responded last night, but Sharky had closed the thread, it was coming up to East Coast ‘Happy Hour’ and I felt my response deserved some thought (in contradistinction [love that word ] to my normal stream-of-consciousness ramblings).
[Mod's note: This new thread in now merged into the old closed one]
Based on a number of emails I’ve received it appears some feel Chartman’s apology grudging or perhaps insincere, but I believe he has done the best he can. I suspect he found himself in a situation of his own making, but without any comprehension of why he was there or why it was happening and strangely powerless to do much about it. We’ve all been there.
Chartman, if you still have any residual doubts or confusions about this issue, call me (you have my number) and I’ll put you straight. As far as I’m concerned, this one’s put to bed as of now. I hope you’ll reciprocate in letting go some of the harsher comments directed at you and made in the heat of the moment.
Sharky has worked with his customary diplomacy both on the boards and privately to resolve this issue. He was put in a very difficult situation which could have got really nasty.
Thanks to all those who jumped in to support my position. Although vanity may have had a lesser mortal believing it was personal support, I suspect it was a more basic human response of indignation at an unjustified (and uncharacteristic) mauling.
I’m pleased it’s resolved.
It’s good to be back.
Thanks for the ‘heads up’ (you know who you are).
I would have responded last night, but Sharky had closed the thread, it was coming up to East Coast ‘Happy Hour’ and I felt my response deserved some thought (in contradistinction [love that word
] to my normal stream-of-consciousness ramblings).[Mod's note: This new thread in now merged into the old closed one]
Based on a number of emails I’ve received it appears some feel Chartman’s apology grudging or perhaps insincere, but I believe he has done the best he can. I suspect he found himself in a situation of his own making, but without any comprehension of why he was there or why it was happening and strangely powerless to do much about it. We’ve all been there.
Chartman, if you still have any residual doubts or confusions about this issue, call me (you have my number) and I’ll put you straight. As far as I’m concerned, this one’s put to bed as of now. I hope you’ll reciprocate in letting go some of the harsher comments directed at you and made in the heat of the moment.
Sharky has worked with his customary diplomacy both on the boards and privately to resolve this issue. He was put in a very difficult situation which could have got really nasty.
Thanks to all those who jumped in to support my position. Although vanity may have had a lesser mortal believing it was personal support, I suspect it was a more basic human response of indignation at an unjustified (and uncharacteristic) mauling.
I’m pleased it’s resolved.
It’s good to be back.
TheBramble
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Only when you learn to spell "trendline" correctly.Gardan said:
Gotcha'
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