What would you do ??

[Hoggums]

Hi TRADERS,
We are missing the point, SB companies must bais there quote's from the underlieing market.
The FSA would not allow a company to quote what ever prices they want.
Ok spreads are into account, but this is very relevent.

Conversation recording .......

SB,comany,, ' We move fair value up and down from the underlieing market through out the day, depending what postions are in the book. (talking about index quotes)

Tomtom, 'You cant do that, thats price manipulation'

SB,company,,' There nothing in our terms of business to say we cant do it'

Clearley this is fraud and heavy fines, usually follow not to mention the knock on effect to business, rotten publisity ect.

Who has been had in the past by SB companys doing this ?
Now after some conciderable amount of time we actually have this evedence.
The regulator will have isshues, also the miedia will like to know more about this evedence and traders storys about this kind of action.

So watch this space, for developments.
Your trader Tomtom

The whole point of spread betting is that you are not trading the markets - otherwise you'd pay tax. You are placing a bet at the level the SB is quoting. It's their market, and they could theoretically quote whatever price they liked. Of course if they did that then they'd lose customers in droves so they only manipulate the prices to balance their book by small amounts. You would expect nothing less from a horse racing bookie - so why the complaints? I really don't see how you're going to win.

Rather than complaining about sbs you should be looking at your stops strategy - you are obviously setting them too close.

 

[BSD]

How do the problems iterated in this thread compare to CFDs?

First off, read the excellent Liar's Poker: Rising Through the Wreckage on Wall Street.

That should then firmly dissuade you from ever again trading any instrument that is not traded on a public exchange in a fair, orderly and transparent manner, but is instead shadily engineered as an over-the-counter contract between two counterparties that do not share the same interests, ie the offering institute isn't interested in your financial success, they are interested in doing everything they can to ensure that they will make a decent return.

As it always takes two to tango one can't even really get upset at them for that ;-)

 

[black bear]

Pairs not moving, 3 DUCKS not lined up

Morning develbis,

You're bitter.

Split

Morning Split,

NO BETTER, I assume the above is your chubby fingers on the keyboard :?:

Have"nt you got some Ducks to check on

Never bitter mate, to short this life for that nonsense, complete waste of ones time, read my posts again if you doubt there intended purpose, just venting and telling it like it is.

If just one learns from another's experience then it is worth it, especially as the Ftse stuck fast at the top of opening range and I have nothing better to do.

Don't trade less than 15 mins time frames with SBs and follow rules and advice dotted about this site and you will do fine IMO. You will come to no harm at all, you may even have some fun and make a few quid.

I would not use the word TRADING that's all when referring to placing bets with bookies. They have a little to much control over the outcome for my liking especially in the smaller time frames. No one forces anyone to place a bet etc etc............

but the fact remains they offer a means to place bets in the smaller time frames and they have the means to effect the result :?: is that right or fair or is it in fact fraud :?:

IMO what they get up to in the 5min and less time frames is in fact pretty close to FRAUD

IF not then why http://www.arielcommunications.co.uk/products.htm,

what do they use it for, it looks pretty errrrrr odd to me, perhaps they could answer and stop the thread in its tracks.



It comes down to Confidence and trust, without that trading with the sbs is nothing more than a fairground punt, if you get 3 DUCKS your a winner

Have a good punting session Split, catch you later I"m sure and have FUN

Andy AKA

 

[Splitlink]

Rather than complaining about sbs you should be looking at your stops strategy - you are obviously setting them too close.

I think you are right, there.

I'm retired and don't want to buy a contract with a broker, so I spreadbet with smaller stakes. That's, really, my point. At the same time, I would not be such a mug as to stay with SB if I wasn't walking away with something. I haven't decided whether I want to day trade or position trade, but that problem is not going to go away by switching to a broker.

The times I lose money doing this, it has been a bad trade entry. Every time some disgruntled person comes here with a complaint I listen and take note, believe me, but these things don't seem to happen to me. When they do, I'll walk away from the firm just the way they do.

Now don't anyone tell us that they haven't made money trading the GDP/USD this morning. It hasn't been much but there was something there and it could have been made with a SB company.

Split

 

[black bear]

How does he do that

First off, read the excellent Liar's Poker: Rising Through the Wreckage on Wall Street.

That should then firmly dissuade you from ever again trading any instrument that is not traded on a public exchange in a fair, orderly and transparent manner, but is instead shadily engineered as an over-the-counter contract between two counterparties that do not share the same interests, ie the offering institute isn't interested in your financial success, they are interested in doing everything they can to ensure that they will make a decent return.

As it always takes two to tango one can't even really get upset at them for that ;-)

Hi BSD

Good POST,

How do you do that, so much said so few words I must be a bit Daft

I don"t need to, I now the post will be accurate, but will read it anyway

no I wont it costs $10 bucks Iv been direct marketed, IV been MUGGED

Andy AKA

 

[Trader333]

ie the offering institute isn't interested in your financial success, they are interested in doing everything they can to ensure that they will make a decent return.

This is exactly how conventional bookmakers work but at least you know in advance that your interests are exactly the opposite to each other.


Paul

 

[BSD]

no I wont it costs $10 bucks Iv been direct marketed, IV been MUGGED

Hi Andy, a spot of mugging and direct marketing is OK I thought as long as it sort of stays in the extended family

PS, libraries in the UK should have it, it's not only factually a great and enlightening read, it's also hilariously entertaining and superbly written.

This is exactly how conventional bookmakers work but at least you know in advance that your interests are exactly the opposite to each other.

Hi Paul, totally agree with that.

 

[black bear]

Horses for courses

My last word on subject

I used to back Horses on Course, and was a little better than ok in my youth.

When you got good enough to always lay a live horse, one that had a real chance and you new that chance with a degree of accuracy.

If you asked for £200 on at 9/2 with a bookie near course side (bucket shop) you would get the Knock back to often to make the extra value on offer worth the hassle.

Not because your wager was large but because he new you were no mug and the wager upset is book, yes he would take it sometimes, he could lay a bit and use the rest to balance his book etc IT SUITED HIM

By the time you got back to the proper Bookies, the price would be in to 7/2, not a lot of difference if your just there for a day out but plenty if your there to work the book and the law of probability.

If you wanted to get on every time no KNOCK BACK EVER you went to the big rail bookmaker and lay your horse with him at 4/1. Not as good a price but fair and available every time you ask. He manages his risk in a professional manner, he employs runners to edge and opens his book a little later. He did not mind you only wanted to play at £200, he was a professional and treated you in a professional manner at all times.

No not the big 2 high Street bookies they are as bad as the Sbs, they in fact manipulate the price in the short time frame two, You can squash the price right in on course with a few well placed bets just before the off and reduce liability in the shops all around the country to acceptable levels. Poor old punters done again at SP.

Horses for Courses, you pays your money you takes your chance

Proper Bookie , Respect , something wrong, he wants to sort it RIGHT NOW this minute. His honour and his integrity are at stake. I was going to give an example of someone who works for channel 4, but its probably slander because gaming debts are not recoverable in Law and he may well have honoured them now. Only honour, integrity and trust matter when a face shouts to his bookmaker lay me such and such for 10K @ 4"s at a busy meeting.

Horses for Courses, you pays your money you takes your chance

Good luck with your trading all

OK ILL let you off marcus

ANDY AKA

 

[Windowsill]

There has been much talk of spreadbetting companies adusting quote to benifit there own bussiness (this is illeagal price manipulation) Todate no one has any evedence from the companies that this happens.
I now have a transcript as evedence that this is normal practise.
Clearley this is ileagal and could if leaked cause seveare detrement to there business.
After years if suspecting that my stops have been hit exactly to the point of the order and believing its just my bad luck, and now having this evedence what would you do if you were in my situation ?
I beilieve due to these actions year todate they have cost me over £100k in stopped out trades that would of come good.

Many Thanks TomTom

Does not bother me how they mainipulate the market.....I don't look to see if its manipulated.....I just go by whats in front of me. Does it matter??? Work with what you have! If you make money so what???? Try being a hunter instead of the hunted, if its stops that are getting you down.

 

[forexbee]

Hi guys

i believe IMO on long term trading, spreadbet firms stop hunting doesnt affect, only on scalpers /shorterm trading it affects a lot....

If wrong just shout pls

Cheers
Fxbee

 

[Windowsill]

Hi guys

i believe IMO on long term trading, spreadbet firms stop hunting doesnt affect, only on scalpers /shorterm trading it affects a lot....

If wrong just shout pls

Cheers
Fxbee

Stop hunting is normal in any market in any time scale.....its just getting the best possible price for your chosen direction. If you have tiny stops you get stopped. If not stopped then RR ratio should be high....so it evens out in the end.

 

[Hoggums]

Hi guys

i believe IMO on long term trading, spreadbet firms stop hunting doesnt affect, only on scalpers /shorterm trading it affects a lot....

If wrong just shout pls

Cheers
Fxbee

As a longer term trader with SBs I can vouch for that comment. I've yet to recall any stop taken out that wasn't sailed through by the market.