Trading with Price and price only

[jacinto]

thanks for your comments Wasp, Brutus and Iwy09tr

Brutus, yep, i shaved you see. i am now handsome :cheesy:

waiting for that little entry for a cable long. want to see how the current 4hr bar develops and closes, otherwise, may wait for a deeper pullback and enter tonight, or tomorrow early morning. will update chart when i get a price point

Edit: hope i dont miss an entry on this one, still in charge of a little 4 year old that is hungry, and it will be hard to monitor a chart. so will have to sit on my hands....i missed the day already anyway, so if i miss it, it will just be that, missing it.

Interestingly, the triangle appears to have developped into a channel, that should be easier to trade. still waiting

 

[jacinto]

waiting for that little entry for a cable long. want to see how the current 4hr bar develops and closes, otherwise, may wait for a deeper pullback and enter tonight, or tomorrow early morning.

Didnt get an entry. Will edit this post when i get an entry.

edit: first entry at 0360

This entry, though not of my liking is based on a wolfie. stop is 20 points, and unfortunately will have to hold overnight.

 

[jacinto]

unfortunately, not something i like, but i dont like the entry, and i want to sleep without worries, i am moving my stop to BE, even if it is only 5 pips in the money. too bad. if it goes without me, too bad, there will be another entry, if i wake up and i am still in, i will be happy.

have abandoned euryen, but havent seen a setup yet.

 

[jacinto]

unfortunately, not something i like, but i dont like the entry, and i want to sleep without worries, i am moving my stop to BE, even if it is only 5 pips in the money. too bad. if it goes without me, too bad, there will be another entry, if i wake up and i am still in, i will be happy.

have abandoned euryen, but havent seen a setup yet.

well, what can i say. obviously should have stayed in. on the other hand, given i was in severe doubt if the entry was right or at the right time (i am simply not comfortable to enter a trade at 11 PM and go to sleep, i feel i need to be on top of the trade until i get a signal that there is a move pending, even if price is close to the entry) , i have to stick with my decision and not cry over spilled milk.

In hindsight:
Good things:
good entry
original stop well placed (never challenged)
price has reached first target (i.e 451 or 61% exp of triangle's height)

bad things
not staying in the trade.........not much to say really, think the above explains the reason to exit. wont justify my failed trade, i cant. simply have to face the consequences of my original decision to exit.

move on to the next trade.

I will have to sort out the emotional side of leaving trades overnight. my child is on holiday, and full time daytrading is tough in those conditions since i prefer to enjoy her. will have to be snipping for opps like last night, but sort out the confidence issue.

 

[wasp]

Leaving a trade overnight seems like a hard thing to do but look at it another way....

If you were awake, if you trade your stops fully regardless (ie don't cut it prior just let it run to target or stop) then if you are asleep, you can't mess it up by playing with the trade!

The way I look at it is asleep or awake, the market will do what it will do and if its going to hit my stop it will hit it whether I'm at my desk, in bed or on holiday! Thats what its there for!

Just my view on it...

 

[jacinto]

Leaving a trade overnight seems like a hard thing to do but look at it another way....

If you were awake, if you trade your stops fully regardless (ie don't cut it prior just let it run to target or stop) then if you are asleep, you can't mess it up by playing with the trade!

The way I look at it is asleep or awake, the market will do what it will do and if its going to hit my stop it will hit it whether I'm at my desk, in bed or on holiday! Thats what its there for!

Just my view on it...

thanks for your comment wasp. your lines, almost exactly, are words that have been in my mind for some time now in terms of developing m trading strategy (point 3 is the one that is relevant in this case):

1) find setup
2) look for entry given the risk I'm willing to take
3) exit
3.1) early exit with a reason....whichever may be, but has to be price dictated
3.2) wait for target or take the loss (setup fails)

sounds simple. but if i look at it that way, in a rather black and white way, then by exiting i simply broke my rules. no need fooling myself with it.

guess you are 100% spot on. thanks again

j

 

[wasp]

guess you are 100% spot on.

Well, what can I say! Can't argue with the truth :cheesy:

Should change my nick to Tony the tiger!

 

[jacinto]

Well, what can I say! Can't argue with the truth :cheesy:

Should change my nick to Tony the tiger!

OK Tony Tiger,

you know, actually during my trip home, i decided to papertrade for a week to sort out a couple of things (on which i thought i had suceeded....but clearly not). I wanted to achieve 2 things. To sort out my emotional attachement to a trade (similar point to what you mentioned in your post above), and consequently, decrease the need to watch a chart (i.e. get a longer chain for my chair ). (im ok with my profitability, but just ok, and thought this would improve it)

Being papertrades, and all that that means (being aware that the excercise lacked the obvious attachment of a real loss-win), it turned out to be OK. actually it ended up being an excelllent shift for me towards 240 min and daily charts and it has definitely improved my price reading, patience for trading (well, for entries at least), etc.

However, i didnt really realise that that learning applies exactly in the same way to opening a trade EOD and going to sleep. if you do your homework, spot the setup, spot the entry that accomodates one's risk appetite, then the rest becomes literally a success-failure scenario, where there is no way one can interfere.

Its funny, my cockup last night and your comment about it have actually made me separate my trading in 2 ( I knew i had 2 types of trading methods, keep mixing them up). On the one hand, i have the day trading breakout type, on the other, there is what i tried to do last night, which could have been during midday for that matter (as you well point out).

Any monkey like myself can read a chart, understand where is price, what it is doing, where it is likely to go, end where to enter. That is the easy part. the tough part is what follows. detatchment from the trade and its management.

thanks wasp, without wanting to do so, you have forced me to go through the core of my trading issues.

Also, because of lifestyle issues (the kid on holiday) I am forced (happily) to concentrate on the swing. lets see if i learned the lesson. I can still daytrade, but not everyday, and not all the time. lets see.

this cockuped trade has hurt the ego more than anything. but there we go, this was one of the purposes of the journal. to open up to public scrutiny.

j

 

[Crap Buddist]

unfortunately, not something i like, but i dont like the entry, and i want to sleep without worries, i am moving my stop to BE, even if it is only 5 pips in the money. too bad. if it goes without me, too bad, there will be another entry, if i wake up and i am still in, i will be happy.

have abandoned euryen, but havent seen a setup yet.

hmm, yeah well you saw the setup, but the overnight hangup's ? why not look to position early europe/london time? I saw the strength and paid 373... your trade must of been looking stonger come london open ? why not "look" to get long then ?

I think your gonna have to do that, or accept holding overnight... what would you rather ?

 

[jacinto]

hmm, yeah well you saw the setup, but the overnight hangup's ? why not look to position early europe/london time? I saw the strength and paid 373... your trade must of been looking stonger come london open ? why not "look" to get long then ?

I think your gonna have to do that, or accept holding overnight... what would you rather ?

agree 100% with you CB. last night i knew i wouldnt be able to trade early london time....besides......woke up late ....had to take the kid at 8 40 to Eton Bridge to see some Swan ceremony (my wife forced me, otherwise I would have caged the kid, turn CBeebies on and traded).

that was last night. tomorrow I am going to Legoland in the morning around 10ish. got a setup already. will post in a different post. dont think it applies for overnight trading though

thanks for your comment

j

PS: just tasted what I cooked the kid for dinner...will pass the recipe...yum

 

[Crap Buddist]

agree 100% with you CB. last night i knew i wouldnt be able to trade early london time....besides......woke up late ....had to take the kid at 8 40 to Eton Bridge to see some Swan ceremony (my wife forced me, otherwise I would have caged the kid, turn CBeebies on and traded).

that was last night. tomorrow I am going to Legoland in the morning around 10ish. got a setup already. will post in a different post. dont think it applies for overnight trading though

thanks for your comment

j

hmmm no worries, very rare asian get a run off, without london getting a chance to load up, happens from time to time, but London opens are usually devious (obliging)


Enjoy legoland. (dont get in any fights )

 

[jacinto]

recovered from cockup, this is what i am eying for cable tomorrow morning.

we shall see if i can get an entry or not.

edit: chart replaced to include other previousl patterns for context. (everything is the same thoug)

 

[jacinto]

july 17th

will keep an eye on this setup on euryen. i will only have time to have a go tomorrow between waking up time and 10 am, or in the afternoon. will only consider the trade if the high is broken (168.93) or i get a decent pullback from current levels for a "pre-breakout" trade

 

[wasp]

OK Tony Tiger,

you know, actually during my trip home, i decided to papertrade for a week to sort out a couple of things (on which i thought i had suceeded....but clearly not). I wanted to achieve 2 things. To sort out my emotional attachement to a trade (similar point to what you mentioned in your post above), and consequently, decrease the need to watch a chart (i.e. get a longer chain for my chair ). (im ok with my profitability, but just ok, and thought this would improve it)

Being papertrades, and all that that means (being aware that the excercise lacked the obvious attachment of a real loss-win), it turned out to be OK. actually it ended up being an excelllent shift for me towards 240 min and daily charts and it has definitely improved my price reading, patience for trading (well, for entries at least), etc.

However, i didnt really realise that that learning applies exactly in the same way to opening a trade EOD and going to sleep. if you do your homework, spot the setup, spot the entry that accomodates one's risk appetite, then the rest becomes literally a success-failure scenario, where there is no way one can interfere.

Its funny, my cockup last night and your comment about it have actually made me separate my trading in 2 ( I knew i had 2 types of trading methods, keep mixing them up). On the one hand, i have the day trading breakout type, on the other, there is what i tried to do last night, which could have been during midday for that matter (as you well point out).

Any monkey like myself can read a chart, understand where is price, what it is doing, where it is likely to go, end where to enter. That is the easy part. the tough part is what follows. detatchment from the trade and its management.

thanks wasp, without wanting to do so, you have forced me to go through the core of my trading issues.

Also, because of lifestyle issues (the kid on holiday) I am forced (happily) to concentrate on the swing. lets see if i learned the lesson. I can still daytrade, but not everyday, and not all the time. lets see.

this cockuped trade has hurt the ego more than anything. but there we go, this was one of the purposes of the journal. to open up to public scrutiny.

j

End of the day, if its gonna hit your stop its gonna hit your stop. It doesn't matter where you are or what your doing, you can't will the market to reverse 3 pips higher if your watching it....!

As Doris so rightly sang.... Que Sera, sera... Whatever will be, will be...

 

[jacinto]

End of the day, if its gonna hit your stop its gonna hit your stop. It doesn't matter where you are or what your doing, you can't will the market to reverse 3 pips higher if your watching it....!

As Doris so rightly sang.... Que Sera, sera... Whatever will be, will be...

errr????.....Doris what?...........just know the part in Spanish :cheesy:

agree, if you did your homework, you sought the setup, you saw the entry, you got in, then, if its going to hit your stop, it will hit your stop. period. so, instead of Doris, call it a Jacinto.
"if it stops you out, it stops you out, if not it gets to target, target, and you will be happy, happy"

"si te para te para, si se sigue se sigue......y sigue, y sigue y sigue"

it really is a simple rule. quite a nice rule for a price-only type of strategy if you think of it.

 

[wasp]

errr????.....Doris what?...........just know the part in Spanish :cheesy:

agree, if you did your homework, you sought the setup, you saw the entry, you got in, then, if its going to hit your stop, it will hit your stop. period. so, instead of Doris, call it a Jacinto.
"if it stops you out, it stops you out, if not it gets to target, target, and you will be happy, happy"

"si te para te para, si se sigue se sigue......y sigue, y sigue y sigue"

it really is a simple rule. quite a nice rule for a price-only type of strategy if you think of it.

It reads much nicer in Spanish too!

 

[Crap Buddist]

Nice cable analysis Jacinto, dont swear, but its done as you anticipated already. did you put anything on last night, notice you were up late... ?

 

[jacinto]

Nice cable analysis Jacinto, dont swear, but its done as you anticipated already. did you put anything on last night, notice you were up late... ?

errrrrr no

 

[brutusdog]

End of the day, if its gonna hit your stop its gonna hit your stop. It doesn't matter where you are or what your doing, you can't will the market to reverse 3 pips higher if your watching it....!

As Doris so rightly sang.... Que Sera, sera... Whatever will be, will be...

j.

looks like that **** up trade could turn out to be very profitable in the end, although i'm sure tony tiger will be after a cut of the profits....

more seriously this is such a difficult thing for me as well and i'm learning from this thread lots already. why is it that i can sit there hold a trade and watch my stop get hit and then go oh well i got it wrong. but cant seem to bugger off and leave a trade on, not great when i'm also trying to trade off slower time frames.

there must be some kind of pschcological s##t to do with control or something...plus the voices in the head dont help either....

keep it up m8.

bd.

 

[dcraig1]

I'll confess that I haven't read all of this thread, but I'll ask the obvious question. Why does anybody want to trade "on price only" when there is is other (very useful) data available to assist in making trading decisions. Quite frankly it makes no sense to me at all.

In an auction market, price goes up when traders are prepared to buy at the ask and down when they are prepared to sell at the bid.

The accompanying chart of the current session of the DAX says it all. It shows the difference in volume at bid and ask smoothed with a 7 bar EMA. Looking at how this ratio is changing tells a lot about the transition of market sentiment. The chart also has VWAP and developing market profile upper and lower value areas but that is another (rather interesting) story.

Each bar is 500 contracts wide. This chart is generated from an IB data feed, so the BID/ASK ratio is not as accurate as it might be, but the big picture is still clear.