Trading sucks - big time - doesn't it?

[0007]

I have just applied for my home learning A level courses to get me into uni so as long as the PC is nearby, mental challenges are easy to find.

Good on yer! I think one definitely needs something outside of trading - it's all too easy to get totally immersed in any job to the exclusion of all else. I always remember one job I had where you lived and worked the job 24 hours a day. So the only topics of conversation were: the job, women and sport - this was interspersed with lots of drinking. Sounds great (and it is when you're young) but as you become more mature you definitely need more. And trading is no exception.

 

[wasp]

Good on yer! I think one definitely needs something outside of trading - it's all too easy to get totally immersed in any job to the exclusion of all else. I always remember one job I had where you lived and worked the job 24 hours a day. So the only topics of conversation were: the job, women and sport - this was interspersed with lots of drinking. Sounds great (and it is when you're young) but as you become more mature you definitely need more. And trading is no exception.

Yep, I worked managing hotel wedding parties a while back. Managed 3 bars and in the height of the season it was 24 hours a day, live in. Of course you always get the party guests who say 'we are drinking till sunrise and you have to stay open' (although they normally pass out by 3am!), yet, you have to be there. It really was work, work, work, get pissed, back to work...........

As much as I enjoy trading, and I do find it fascinating still, and will always do it, my passions lie in the oceans and trading is a means to money to pursue my real dreams.

 

[JTrader]

The money and freedom count for a lot but were that not an issue, has anyone had a job before that they found more interesting, exciting, challenging, fascinating and rewarding?

Interesting - yes
challenging - no
rewarding - not financially

fascinating - would need to think about that, and have a better definition of fascinating.

 

[BSD]

J, think that absolutely needs to be the first thing to do:

Figure out exactly what YOU want from life...

And then once you have that figured out you'll enjoy doing what you're doing.

I don't think one can stick anything long term, let alone be very successful at it, unless you're doing what really fits in with your personality (eg sales won't work unless you are outgoing and enjoy dealing with people kind of thing), fits in with your needs, desires, etc.

For me this is a means to an end, but also a means that I find very enjoyable, although I try to keep things pretty balanced, ie no despair after a losing streak, no euphoria when the cash register is ringing nicely.

Maybe trading isn't for you, then you'll need to keep looking.

Or maybe trading is for you, but just not alone at home.

Then you could try translating your track record into a position at an investment bank, hedge fund, prop firm, etc.

But I think key is doing something you can enjoy, waking up feeling bad because of the day ahead is just too great a waste of time on something you'll spend the greatest part of your waking life on: work.

 

[fibonelli]

".....Why do I trade.......?
Because I am ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that this is the best "business" in the world.

There are:
1. no rent of offices (that is, NO dealing with Realtors, Lawyers, and government departments...man, what a pain in the ass). Also no office fit-out costs

2. no staff, (man, unless you have had large numbers of staff depending on YOU for their paypacket each week, you cannot know what a huge pain in the ass it is. They ALL want you to solve their problems)

3. No inventory or stock to buy. No shrinkage (theft of stock) and no "slow moving" items. No massive amount of funds tied up in inventory

4. You can "borrow" as much as you want (by increasing your leverage), WHENEVER you want. (Try running a big business and going to the bank for a short term loan for $10 mill...it will take a month minimum). I am trading $10-12 mill all the time and I get it instantly through the brokers by the use of leverage.

5. If the business becomes a hassle for whatever reason, you can shut it down (that is, close all positions) instantly...and re-open (initiate new positions) whenever YOU want to re-open your "business."

6. You can "scale" your business to whatever size YOU want simply by increasing/decreasing your positions.

7. Absolutely minimal paperwork. Simply send your 12 month summary Profit and Loss Statement to your Financial Accountant for tax payment purposes.

8. You can trade from anywhere in the world. My wife and I travel most of the year. (take your laptop or PDA or whatever else they will come up with and trade while sipping a nice drink as close by as your local cafe or as far as some open air cafe in some remote little town in beautiful Italy while you watch a bocce match at the park.)

I could keep telling you more of the benefits of this business, but suffice to say...this is the best "business" in the world. I run a multi-multimillion dollar business from my laptop.

And did I mention that it was exciting and fun????.............................."

Source:
Jacko's Forex House of Pleasure and Pain

 

[JTrader]

Yep

guys, i repent. Trading is the best deal on the web. I see that. As fibonelli demonstrates, it is very streamlined an operation. The pro's more than outweigh the cons. I will try to focus on the pro's.
Sorry, for wasting your time, again.


May the force be with you!

 

[Devilicus]

If you're good at it, it's the best job in the world without a shadow of a doubt!!

 

[wasp]

If you're good at it, it's the best job in the world without a shadow of a doubt!!

Its an easy way to make a lot of money but the best job in the world is pushing it IMO.

 

[JTrader]

Its an easy way to make a lot of money but the best job in the world is pushing it IMO.

I agree.

The end product from trading ($£) is superb, and U R your own boss etc. but the means of extracting it i still think is quite tedious.

I'd rather get my $'s from being an International porn superstar like "good ol" Ron Jeremy, thats for sure! -
His job Is highly sociable, lots more fun, better exercise AND, unlike with trading, he is also delivering a service to the wider world - not only to his co-stars, but to all those w*****s who watch his films.

 

[Mr.J-Arthur]

Trading is the best when you go through a winning streek. Trading sucks when you lose, but it's certainly not the end of the world.

It has unlimited opportunity, but not every day do you get the perfect chance to make good money.

 

[donaldduke]

Yes, trading sucks, at least emotionally.

Trading is a net negative sum game emotionally.

The pain of losing is approximately 2 to 2.5 times the joy of winning. And the pain of missing out is sometimes even worse than that.

Therefore even if you have a system that wins 70% of time and gives 1:1 win ratio, trading is about break even on the emotional enjoyment side.

You need a system that either wins with 50% chance and gives winners that are 4 time larger than the losers. Or a system that wins 80% of the time with atleast 1:1 ratio. Then the trader would find the game net emotionally enjoyable.

I know of no robust systems that trade with those kind of results (at least not often enough to give more than a few trades a year).

 

[nine]

I agree.

The end product from trading ($£) is superb, and U R your own boss etc. but the means of extracting it i still think is quite tedious.

I'd rather get my $'s from being an International porn superstar like "good ol" Ron Jeremy, thats for sure! -
His job Is highly sociable, lots more fun, better exercise AND, unlike with trading, he is also delivering a service to the wider world - not only to his co-stars, but to all those w*****s who watch his films.

International P star has some downsides. I saw a summary earlier this year of what had happened to Ron and all his old mates, many of whom I have fond memories of, and between murder and aids, all that sociability had a nasty price. At least trading is clean!

Donald, the key to unprofitable trades lies in reframing them. If you can learn to love them for what they bring you then the pain will decline. Any time you see each trade on a money basis you need to take a break and get your emotions under control - one trick would be to anticipate XX slippage on the stop and then get all happy when its less.

 

[nine]

The question was raised: "...actually boring is still an emotion induced mindset...so is it really a good state to be in" and I'm pondering it.

The danger of emotions isn't the emotion (unless at damaging levels) - the danger is what the emotion causes a trader to do. It is possible to experience emotions and do the right thing. Its also desirable - and in trading we call it discipline. Boredom doesn't generate the impulse to do the wrong thing before or during a trade so it is less dangerous than many emotions.

I guess ideally "neutral" might be a better state perhaps feeling relaxed, even, observant but unexcited. I do find myself slightly bored and even a little negative and I guess the danger of that is that you are less motivated to be there and do it. For me though, that's what works to keep me away from my major faults and stop me engaging the market in unproductive ways. FWIW I also have a set of scripts that I repeat at different stages of trading to keep me focused on doing the right thing.

All of this may reflect the fact that I still have demons that I have not completely moved past and when the demons finally disappear I may be able to use neutral instead.

 

[sinimini]

I just neck a load of wobbly eggs...blast out some trance or heavy metal depending on which side of the bed I got out of...and do butt clenches. Life is grrrreat!

 

[new_trader]

Or a system that wins 80% of the time with atleast 1:1 ratio. Then the trader would find the game net emotionally enjoyable.

I know of no robust systems that trade with those kind of results (at least not often enough to give more than a few trades a year).

This is because you refer to it as a 'system' rather than a skill. There might not be a robust 'system' that you know of but there are skilful traders who win around 80% of the time, sometimes slightly more, sometimes slightly less. It's not a case of plugging numbers into a 'strategy tester' and modifying parameters until it says win rate=80%

The 'net emotionally enjoyable' feeling real traders get is knowing that they have a permanent edge, one that they have acquired through long study and practice rather than a 'system' based on pretty coloured lines or shapes etc.

 

[JTrader]

Yes, trading sucks, at least emotionally.

Trading is a net negative sum game emotionally.

The pain of losing is approximately 2 to 2.5 times the joy of winning. And the pain of missing out is sometimes even worse than that.

Therefore even if you have a system that wins 70% of time and gives 1:1 win ratio, trading is about break even on the emotional enjoyment side.

You need a system that either wins with 50% chance and gives winners that are 4 time larger than the losers. Or a system that wins 80% of the time with atleast 1:1 ratio. Then the trader would find the game net emotionally enjoyable.

I know of no robust systems that trade with those kind of results (at least not often enough to give more than a few trades a year).

For me, this is one of the major reasons why I find the trading process tedious. I kind of expect to lose, and though the trade is more likely to win than lose, the nervous energy invested in it up until that point has taken its toll!

 

[JTrader]

This is because you refer to it as a 'system' rather than a skill. There might not be a robust 'system' that you know of but there are skilful traders who win around 80% of the time, sometimes slightly more, sometimes slightly less. It's not a case of plugging numbers into a 'strategy tester' and modifying parameters until it says win rate=80%

The 'net emotionally enjoyable' feeling real traders get is knowing that they have a permanent edge, one that they have acquired through long study and practice rather than a 'system' based on pretty coloured lines or shapes etc.

He never said it was.

 

[new_trader]

He never said it was.

Che?

 

[PKFFW]

I find the actual mechanics of trading to be pretty boring and tedious.

I can see the advantages trading has as a job/business over most other jobs/business.

I can see the end result that trading success will give me when I reach the point I want to be at.

So all in all I think the pros definitely do outweigh the cons. For me anyway.

Cheers,
PKFFW

 

[JTrader]

I am net + with my trading results, and expect to remain so, over the long term.

My strategic approach is far from something that makes me think - making a profit is simply a case of switching the PC on in a morning and waiting & then pressing button x or y. Some days it goes very well, other days it goes OK. Other days like so far today, are an absolute ****ing nightmare!

Trading does suck overall for me though, profit or not.
The main reason for this view boils down to the following -

On many occassions do i feel that luck simply evaded me -
eg.
1. price hits my SL, goes no further, reverses in the origina ldirection into what would be a big profit.
2. I click on a price, and in the split second delay between my decision to click and the click, the price changes by 1 pip against me, as opposed to in my favour.

I have said it before. Rarely after a trade do i think, damn i just got lucky! in the majority of trades, what i see as examples of bad luck, conspire to reduce my profits.

Please, i don't want any replies saying there's no such thing as bad luck, and if your SL was hit and price went no further b4 reversing andd into what would have been a big profit, this happened for a reason and your original entry was at fault etc. i.e. there's no such thing as random price movements etc. I've heard it before and its BS.

The fact is trading remains a tough challenge for all of us, and the odds are stacked against us, and it will always remain so.