Trading News with S&R

[black bear]

"No bear, they phone each other about 30 times a day, but thats just the traders ---- you are aware, of course, that bernakie discusses the US moves with his counterparts around the world, and that information, as ALL information does, gently sifts into the trading world.

but thats not really the answer, rather the answer to your question is THEY DONT HAVE TO because they can see whats happening and theyre all pretty much using the same support and resistance figures so they all pretty much are on the same track --- take a listen to all the analysts now talking about the dollars "bottom" --- with all that talk, most call this rite now a "false" bottom and predict the real one in the summer, which seems logical to me."

mp

You have answered the question

thank you

They do not now thats why they are on the phone seeking something they think they need to guarentee they are not wrong and not just trading what they see.


Which is if your trading S&R to my weedhopper understanding ..........

O xx its gone through and stops gone = cost 25 pts potencial gain back to R where you can close at profit of 50 pts

oh ye and I think I am with the longer tf trend to = nice, think I will risk the trade and sit back and enjoy some sounds, take 1/2 off at R if its a goer and slide stop into BE on the other half = freeby

Thats it ~ you dont need to get inside some other persons head to trade in pofit and anybody that says you do is wrong imho and are leading people down the gargen path = they now they are or they are idiots and complete fools.


You choose mp

 

[mp6140]

You said "if it didnt, WHY DOES THIS SITE GIVE LESSONS ON NOT USING STOPLOSSES !" in a previous post. Interestingly that post was a near duplicate of one on the other site you post on ... where maybe they do what you say.

But where on T2W do you find lessons on not using stop losses?

Please also note the two questions above

===========================================================
ahhhh --- a slight mistake on my part. I receive constant emails entitled "stop using stop losses" and they come from "T2W Mailer <no rely>@trade2win.com> which I now see is obviously a paid vendor email, so i must apologize and will STOP using that reference.,

FOLLOWING is the content of said email - - - - -

Dear Investor,

If you’re tired of stop losses, learn how to adjust trades to turn losers into winners!

Let’s face it – even after conducting the most thorough analysis, sometimes your stock picks move in the wrong direction. Unfortunately most investors only know how to use stop losses or other “loss minimizing” strategies when that happens. But what if there were a way to “adjust” your trades to actually turn those losing stock picks into winners?…

We’re offering a FREE online webinar that will teach you how these and other strategies can help you profit in any market condition. In this free class you will learn:


•
Proven methods to pick the right stocks

•
How to adjust trades to turn losers into winners

•
How to average 50% ROI per trade



Your best investment may be 45 minutes of your time attending this valuable online class. To select a convenient class time, just click on this link:

[ No Fear Investing ]Free Online Webinar

Regards & Good Trading,

Ryan Wayne
Marketing Communications Manager
Spread Trade Systems

P.S. Be sure to stick around for the post-class Q & A session where one of our students will share his current trades & strategies and take any questions you may have.

sincere apologies nine --- i actually had never fully read it before !

mp

 

[mp6140]

"No bear, they phone each other about 30 times a day, but thats just the traders ---- you are aware, of course, that bernakie discusses the US moves with his counterparts around the world, and that information, as ALL information does, gently sifts into the trading world.

but thats not really the answer, rather the answer to your question is THEY DONT HAVE TO because they can see whats happening and theyre all pretty much using the same support and resistance figures so they all pretty much are on the same track --- take a listen to all the analysts now talking about the dollars "bottom" --- with all that talk, most call this rite now a "false" bottom and predict the real one in the summer, which seems logical to me."

mp

You have answered the question

thank you

They do not now thats why they are on the phone seeking something they think they need to guarentee they are not wrong and not just trading what they see.

No bear --- they are on the phone making deals that you never will see, but become part of the "spikes" you often DO see --- they are on the phone at noon edt, when the currency is NOT reversing, asking each other whats happening and when do we reverse ? Theyre constantly on the phone with each other so that they remain in sync, and dont get left out, and thats only ONE reason !

go to an institutions trading room and just listen to the conversations --- once done, any concept you had of trading with the "big boys and girls" will be dashed to pieces because they are all pretty much aware of what is happening normally !


Which is if your trading S&R to my weedhopper understanding ..........

O Sh..t its gone through and stops gone = cost 25 pts potencial gain back to R where you can close at profit of 50 pts

oh ye and I think I am with the longer tf trend to = nice, think I will risk the trade and sit back and enjoy some sounds, take 1/2 off at R if its a goer and slide stop into BE on the other half = freeby

Thats it ~ you dont need to get inside some other persons head to trade in pofit and anybody that says you do is wrong imho and are leading people down the gargen path = they now they are or they are idiots and complete fools.


You choose mp

unfortunately bear, I REALLY dont understand the rest of what youve said, so I cant possibly answer the rest.

mp

 

[black bear]

How Strange

unfortunately bear, I REALLY dont understand the rest of what youve said, so I cant possibly answer the rest.

mp

mp thats your only reply, how many times is that 4 or 5

You can understand that chart you posted !

but you cannot understand plain English

Get out of it man your off your rocker, no hedge to cut


NOT latter

 

[mp6140]

MP -- the proof is in the charts, and the charts are doing what i said !

mp thats your only reply, how many times is that 4 or 5

You can understand that chart you posted !

but you cannot understand plain English

Get out of it man your off your rocker, no hedge to cut


NOT latter

Bear

what i could understand of what you posted, i answered ---- very honestly, i dont understand the rest, so you can choose to belittle me or say it in "plainer" english that i may be able to understand --- my apologies for being stupid, but unfortunately that is my lot in life, speaking of which, what does "lot" mean in your posts as i dont understand that either !

my charts are my charts and i make no excuses for them --- they work for me and obviously not for you but i doubt that should be a topic of such disagreement between us.

I sent a simplified MT4 chart that should have made things simpler --- was that also unreadable ?

i repeat, as i do constantly --- what i talk about, while very real and perfectly normal in the markets movements, IS NOT AIMED AT NEWBS, but rather the more experienced traders who might wish to consider what i say --- i DO NOT demand that anyone follow what i say, but simply consider it while checking their own CHARTS to see if they recognize what i post.

I will grant that what i do requires skill and most importantly EXPERIENCE, therefore taking it out of the NEWB realm, but down the road a year or so, if the newb remembers, he/she might think to themselves "oh yeah, mp said something about that last year --- gee, maybe he was correct !"

It works for me bear, and modesty and feduciary responsibilities to my clients prevents me from telling you exactly HOW well it works, and while someone who has not spent a bit of time talking thru trades or sitting next to me could, and probably would, get confused, the concepts are solid as a rock and apparent on my statements.

I have reached a point in my life where arguement is kinda useless, and if one believes me or not becomes rather silly --- if you choose to examine for yourself, with an open mind, then so be it and so be it if you choose to poo poo what i say WITHOUT EXAMINATION !

What i say can be proven by simple observation on YOUR OWN charts --- you can easily see what has happened overnite and presently with GU --- it did EXACTLY what i said it would do BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE IT COULD POSSIBLY DO !

i APOLOGIZE if i sometimes appear "smug", but over many years Ive earned the right --- ALL I EVER ASK IS THAT YOU LOOK AND LEARN, and then, if you like what you see, I might be able to help you if you so desire and are ready for the information I hold !

THATS ALL BEAR, NOTHING MORE OR LESS ---- JUST LOOK AT WHAT GBPUSD IS DOING TODAY, AND RE READ WHAT I SAID YESTERDAY ---- i SINCERLY DOUBT I need say more !

trade well bear, learn well --- its just all pretty self explanatory once you really LOOK !

and always remember what "Kojak" used to say --- "WHO loves ya baby ?"

mp

 

[Advent]

I HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE, AND NOTHING TO GAIN WITH THIS SIMPLE INFO --- LOOK at your charts and then tell me Im wrong, but first LOOK !!!!


You may make a fortune trading, you may be a better trader than I am, you may generously forgo profitable screen time in order to teach others, you may just be full of sh!t. I don't care, it's irrelevent. The reason I posted was to warn any newbies looking for easy money (This is the First Step forum after all) that by doing what you advocate over releases they will get badly burned. That was all I intended.

but...

BET YA MANY BILLS YOU WONT EVEN SAY A WORD, CAUSE ILL HAVE BEEN CORRECT AND YOU WONT HAVE THE GUTS TO ADMIT IT !

now I must retort....

I do not pretend to be the best trader in the world and I am constantly trying to learn more and improve but I DO know what I am talking about. I do not need to look back at my charts to see that you are wrong, I watch charts and order flow all day everyday including over figures and am telling you that people will get burned doing what you said.

Sure, it would be easy to find numerous examples of where what you are suggesting has worked perfectly and only trying it for a period of time could prove me right/wrong but if you were to employ it as a trading strategy you WILL lose a fortune. If it were that easy I would retire at the end the month!



the banks and brokers and every single decent institution can tell you what will happen, because they have literally TONS of analysists working each and every day on the forthcoming announcements --- they HAVE to do this so they will always be on the right side of profit !


So you really believe that all the banks know the figures before thay are released!!

The market reacts depending upon wether the figure is Better or worse than expectations. Most people/banks/whoever use the bloomberg/reuters survey as the expected figure and this is what the market reacts against . This figure is the MEDIAN OF EACH BANKS' ANALYSTS' expectations.

And if you somehow believe that the banks publicly say they are expecting one thing but actually have a team of super analysts who always get it spot on, then do some research into how the figures are compiled and how the analysts arive at their expectations. You will see that this just is not possible and you will also learn more about why certain figures are deemed more important than others etc.

Although it is tempting to comment on other things you have said on this thread, all I really wanted to do was save newbies a lot of heartache and money over figures and hopefully I have done that.

 

[mp6140]

Although it is tempting to comment on other things you have said on this thread, all I really wanted to do was save newbies a lot of heartache and money over figures and hopefully I have done that.

=======================================================================

as far as warning newbs, you can prob do a search of all my posts and find 30 - 50 references to warnings that this is an advanced technique, learnable and solidly based, BUT NOT FOR THEM for at least a year ----- heck, ill prob make a mandatory disclosure for it.

having said that, allow that my emails figuratively buzz with newbs both asking and telling me how well it has worked, if only from the POV of NOT getting their stops hit and then watching the currency come around again.

The clarion cry of most newbs here (and everywhere else for that matter) is how they LOST money on a trade, and when i see the trade I can only weep, because if they had simply remained in the trade, it would have paid off marvelously.

Unfortunately, and this goes for so many "traders" I see on this site and the rest, no one REALLY knows where to exit a trade, with some using a percentage figure, some a ma crossover, some when the RSI gets to a certain point but rarely, very very rarely do they actually KNOW !

if one educates themselves, understands that the market is based firmly on support and resistance and trend, they can trade right alongside the smart money --- but of course that requires REALLY learning what the pros dont want you to know, cause they dont want you eating their lunch ! (or breakfast or dinner for that matter)

As i have said, I present concepts learned from a right brained approach to the market, and while i have an approach to the market that does not lose money, perhaps it can only work for me like the "bunny girl" method of trading which is phenominally successful but also extremely difficult for most !

So, bottom line is that while my concepts may appear strange, they are immediately and long term proveable BY THOSE WHO INVESTIGATE -- your posts to me were more in the nature of "i dont believe you and I DONT NEED TO LOOK AT ANY CHARTS to know youre wrong !"

Fine with me -- whatever you like. BUT dont publically put me down for my ideas and then proclaim that YOU WONT EVEN BOTHER TO CHECK IF IM RIGHT OR WRONG !

Ill make the disclaimer for the newbs, but certainly not for the more experienced traders

mp

 

[grantx]

Split,

"experienced poster's duty "? I think personal responsibility takes precedence. There is too much nannying as it is without T2W assuming everyone is a "victim".

Grant.

 

[mp6140]

I disagree with all of that. It is an experienced poster's duty to try to dissuade the inexperienced from making wrong moves.

If that is not the case, why does a site like T2W exist?

That is not to say that I am taking sides for, or against, mp. When I first started to notice him, I thought that he made a change from the usual postings that seem to be the norm, nowadays. Lately, I have not been following him so much.

But I do hope that he is not following your opinion that the inexperienced lead are stupid and, therefore, should be squeezed like lemons.

Split

===========================================

tell ya what split, while i always try to protect the newb, often the sheer overpowering numbers of them gets to one, not to forget most enter to "get rich quckly" with some "system" or robot.

After many years, it begins to wear on one and where I have often been accused of "jousting with windmills" back when i moderated 14 different stock forumns, I begin to tire of the "same old, same old", over and over and over and over again !

"natural selection" is a highly valid concept, and while one side of me wants to protect the newborn, the other side recognizes the validity of the theory, leaving me in a bit of a quandry --- I now refer to myself often as a "dutch uncle" simply because my answer to "where can i get a robot to make me a gazillion dollars while i polish the maserati and buy new diamonds for my trophy chick" comes down a bit hard --- I try to dissuade anyone with that attitude, but unfortunately that attitude is the one that will NEVER be dissuaded, but will lose the down payment for the maserati in short order.

There is nothing i can do for those individuals, but then someone comes up who is REALLY working at learning, and my heart swells with happiness. To this person i will give everything i can, because they "understand."

i do at times simply let all the other gurus try to help the newb as i stand aside, because i cant stand to watch yet another lamb to the slaughter and so i partake in "natural selection" in the most involuntary manner possible, but its to get the pain over quickly for the newb and to allow me to sleep at nite without having to wonder who made what mistake today.

after a while it simply gets harder to deal with people, not easier, and so I mix more with the intermediate and expert and only step in when i see a newb about to walk off a cliff.

too many years, too many of the same questions, too many people !

mp

 

[nine]

From the mod

For the record: mp did answer my questions in the thread above to my satisfaction and, as usual, some amusement.



For the record: I'm with Bramble on the "censor" role but I see the other side too. I've been highly annoyed to see interesting discussion shut down by conventional wisdom when it seemed likely to go somewhere that could give me a new edge (perhaps). I finished reading all the conventional wisdom a few years back so new ideas give me hope of something interesting to test.



Can I suggest that when we see something dangerous to newbies we just put up a warning, a post like:

"quote: whatever mp said like "I don't use stops""

Warning to newbies reading this thread. The practice mp is talking about is potentially dangerous - and errors in this space have cost newbies their trading accounts before today. It is not usually accepted as good practice! If you want to do it then study it closely and test it diligently to prove that it works before you try it.


If you do see something really suspect then just hit the complain button. For our sins we mods do look at everything.

 

[nine]

MP. On stops.

It is a fact that in Tom Stridsmans system testing he found that with a system that has sound reversal points stops reduced the simple returns of the system. Interestingly he still used them anyway because they reduced the standard deviation of wins and losses meaning he could bet bigger for an overall better return.

It is also a fact that when you say "I don't use stops" you mean "Instead of using stops I exit when I get a signal telling me to exit." The enthusiasm with which you say "I don't use stops" (newbies making you cry etc) tends to make the first part stand out and the second part disappear into the background noise.

IM(H)O, you would generate less of that argument you haven't got time for if you made the "but I get out when" clearer and the "no stops" less emphatic. In my humble opinion of course

 

[Paul71]

Nine,

Traders who don't use stops, never have a real reason as to why they don't use them. Stops are too definate for these types, they are victims of their own insecurity, indecision and unknowing.

 

[mp6140]

MP. On stops.

It is a fact that in Tom Stridsmans system testing he found that with a system that has sound reversal points stops reduced the simple returns of the system. Interestingly he still used them anyway because they reduced the standard deviation of wins and losses meaning he could bet bigger for an overall better return.

unacustomed to public speaking as i am, i would imagine not using stops would definitely allow you to profit more, if only because you loose less on those oh so constant reversals !

It is also a fact that when you say "I don't use stops" you mean "Instead of using stops I exit when I get a signal telling me to exit." The enthusiasm with which you say "I don't use stops" (newbies making you cry etc) tends to make the first part stand out and the second part disappear into the background noise.

ok, i gotta sorta kinda maybe agree, but here comes that infernal "BUT". I have newbs playing the 5 and 15 min LRC's and the zig zags and often the longer timeframe ones and they are not using stops with an end result of 200 and usually much more pip moves on GU and most of them while they sleep. Had they used stops, they would have been killed graveyard dead !

But hows this ? While i pay intense attention to support and resistance points for my exits, during the trip to my price target the price may make wanderings resembling a drunken man moving from bar to bar, although we all know he will somehow make it home tonite --- during those wanderings, because of his erratic ups and downs, I do not use stoplosses for fear he will trip over them, injure himself badly, and the following day if he remembers, might sue me for leaving the stop losses in his way

While i cannot advocate this for newbs, along comes another one, dusty and dirty from his riding back from the gold fields, but carrying a sack of gold and a smile on his visage as wide as his sombrero -- so what do i do about that ?


IM(H)O, you would generate less of that argument you haven't got time for if you made the "but I get out when" clearer and the "no stops" less emphatic. In my humble opinion of course

ah yesssssssssss -- the arguement i so intensly dislike ! (LOL)

WARNING --- DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME. THIS TRADE WAS DONE BY ACCOMPLISHED STUNT MEN AND WOMAN TRADERS IN CAREFULLY CONTROLLED CIRCUMSTANCES AND COULD LEAD TO DEATH, DESTRUCTION OF YOUR ACCOUNT OR SPANKINGS !

guess i gots to clean up my act

from now on i shall only speak of women, which i like a whole lot more than trading anyway !

 

[nine]

Paul,

Those that don't use stops unwisely absolutely fit your categorization. But it is possible to have a "stop free" strategy ... except that it clearly has exits that when tested give better results than stops.

The trouble is that very few fit into the second group. The second category needs even better discipline than the first if it is to work.

MP,

Yes I get the newbie story ... and thats the problem ... you mix one thing with another so it is very easy to get the wrong idea about what you mean. The newbie in the story is no doubt receiving guidance on an stopless entry and exit strategy from someone not so new.

Nine

 

[mp6140]

Nine,

Traders who don't use stops, never have a real reason as to why they don't use them. Stops are too definate for these types, they are victims of their own insecurity, indecision and unknowing.

=====================================================

PAUL, PAUL, PAUL,

as much as i hate arguement, let us now call this a discussion and while i cannot refute what you put forth so wonderously, I hope you dont believe it to apply to me perchance ?

My "real" reason has been stated repeatedly --- because of the ups and downs of the markets normal rhythm, i do not want my trade to be taken out prematurely and since i can figure out where the trades tp point IS, why would i need a stop since i know the price is going to that point ?

in fact, quite the opposite of "insecurity, indecision and unknowing" so let me allow a substitution of words.

I am NEVER INSECURE because I AM A MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE !

good weekend paul

mp

 

[Paul71]

There is no such thing as noise! All price is indicative.

 

[mp6140]

Paul,

MP,

Yes I get the newbie story ... and thats the problem ... you mix one thing with another so it is very easy to get the wrong idea about what you mean. The newbie in the story is no doubt receiving guidance on an stopless entry and exit strategy from someone not so new.

Nine

======================================================================I

not really --- gave some lessons and a few of them are just naturals i guess

woman are far better at receiving ongoing information than men --- could be a version of insecurity, but i think its just NO testosterone and the fact that men never read the directions and just want to get on with it. (imagine a few women complain about that also !)

mp

oh yeah, since no one can read my charts, decided to attach something youse guys CAN read. All photos from my past life !



mp

 

[Paul71]

Mp, the reason why you put the picture of this 'woman' in your post, is to try and distract from your inability to reason. Cut the bull.

 

[mp6140]

Mp, the reason why you put the picture of this 'woman' in your post, is to try and distract from your inability to reason. Cut the bull.

===============================

well "distraction" is a good word here but its certainly not for the reasons you put forth.

BUT, in my never ending search for "truth, justice and the american way" I shall dive into this handy phone booth, rip off my glasses and clothing and fly "up, up, up into the sky" to once again protect Gotham City (whooops, thats Batman -- wrong theme music !)

how about this --- ill take the SIMPLEST chart i can find and attempt to show how i trade, THEN youse guys can attempt to rip it apart, throwing pieces hither and yon and we can "DISCUSS" it like the logical adults we all want everyone else to think we are !

HOWS THAT ?

mp

 

[TheBramble]

Never mind the charts my man, more chick pics....

{joking, just joking....give me a rock hard EURUSD uptrend with candlesticks and a thrusting MACD any old day.....}