Trader looking for capital

[robster970]

Would you care to explain a bit more, why I am "too high risk"?

Investors in any concern will look to securitise their investment so that it can be liquidated in the event of failure. You have no security, so any liquidation would result in no return, merely a personal bankruptcy.

It is purely a punt, rather than an investment from a business point of view, no matter how talented you may be.

Make sense?

 

[trendie]

you seem really keen to trade right away.
could you not get a job, and build up a trading pot over 6-12 months?
how much do you actually need to trade full-time?

zupcons idea is worth considering.

also, why not post 2 weeks real-time calls, then consider selling your signals, or open a subscription trading room.
if you're half as good as you say, you would be head and shoulders above the competition.
(I really like your approach of 2 lots of 3hrs trading. thats very specific and focussed)

 

[virtuos0]

I think the prop shop route may by the quickest and easiest and most risk free way for you to become a full time home trader. I know you say you 'prefer' not to, but people running business often have to do things that they don't prefer!

 

[gamma]

Please don't turn my words around into something I didn't say.
If you don't understand why trading money for a friend or relative brings on a lot more pressure than for a stranger, ask someone else to explain...

I am not turning your words around in any way, simply quoting what you said.
With regard to trading family or friends money I have been doing that for 5 years and have a good idea of what that involves . Any respectable business proposal will treat a stranger's money in the same respect as a friend's or relatives money.
I manage accounts for both family and friends and as I am a serious business do not consider family pressure greater than a stranger's

No one in the world of investing is looking for 20% per month consistently an a big account, because it means a lot more risk in terms of absolute money.

You came up with this

Average is 20-30% per month, worst month is breakeven (but I only traded 2 weeks then), no losing months yet since I started live

If you think looking after a lot of money is easier you have no idea of what trading involves!

When I traded the ETX account to show what one can do with a small amount of money I had several requests from traders on this forum asking me to manage their accounts.
here are the details
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/71866-heads-up-etx-100-quid-16.html#post915978

If you are half as good as you say you are do something like the above and the requests will come flooding in.

I am sorry if I come across as a bit heavy and negative, do not want to disillusion you in any way,
see me as devils advocate if you will

 

[delzako]

you seem really keen to trade right away.
could you not get a job, and build up a trading pot over 6-12 months?
how much do you actually need to trade full-time?

zupcons idea is worth considering.

also, why not post 2 weeks real-time calls, then consider selling your signals, or open a subscription trading room.
if you're half as good as you say, you would be head and shoulders above the competition.
(I really like your approach of 2 lots of 3hrs trading. thats very specific and focussed)

I'll definitely explore zupcon's idea, that site looks interesting.

Going back to a full time job is not really my idea of getting ahead. To start with, I'd need to explain the "gap" in my career, explain why I quit my previous job, show some kind of commitment that I won't walk away after 6-12 months (but that's what I want to do!)... so all sort of complications...

Selling signals is not something I'm interested in. Really, I posted on one forum with all my trades in real time, and I got a lot of praise and cheers for that. But no one ever approached me with money :|

 

[delzako]

I am not turning your words around in any way, simply quoting what you said.
With regard to trading family or friends money I have been doing that for 5 years and have a good idea of what that involves . Any respectable business proposal will treat a stranger's money in the same respect as a friend's or relatives money.
I manage accounts for both family and friends and as I am a serious business do not consider family pressure greater than a stranger's

That's not the point though. People are clearly misinterpreting what I said.
If you traded money from a relatively like I did, it was all but a pleasant experience. These people who don't know anything about trading or investing keep harassing you, "what are you buying now?", "I heard in the news that this or that stock went up, surely you are buying?", "hey, why are you short oil when they said stocks are declining?"

I've traded money from a relative for a month, and it freaked me out completely.
You know why people working in IT prefer not to help their relatives with IT problems? For the exact same reason. It's not because they treat those problems differently or that they find them more risky. It's because the people behind them have little idea about what it takes to manage those situations.

You made it sound like I considered money of stranger's of less value, which I don't. On the contrary, I would consider it to have more potential, because getting a small sum of money from a relative or friend is probably the best it's going to get. Getting a sum from a stranger who might know someone else or could help you get more money through his network or acquaintances, is a lot more interesting, so I would definitely treat it with the respect it deserves.

 

[gamma]

That's not the point though. People are clearly misinterpreting what I said.
If you traded money from a relatively like I did, it was all but a pleasant experience. These people who don't know anything about trading or investing keep harassing you, "what are you buying now?", "I heard in the news that this or that stock went up, surely you are buying?", "hey, why are you short oil when they said stocks are declining?"

I've traded money from a relative for a month, and it freaked me out completely.
You know why people working in IT prefer not to help their relatives with IT problems? For the exact same reason. It's not because they treat those problems differently or that they find them more risky. It's because the people behind them have little idea about what it takes to manage those situations.

You made it sound like I considered money of stranger's of less value, which I don't. On the contrary, I would consider it to have more potential, because getting a small sum of money from a relative or friend is probably the best it's going to get. Getting a sum from a stranger who might know someone else or could help you get more money through his network or acquaintances, is a lot more interesting, so I would definitely treat it with the respect it deserves.

I appear to have misinterpreted what you were trying to say
I know what you mean about relatives money
there have been some good suggestions on this thread I hope you find them useful
I hope you have success with your endeavour

 

[delzako]

I appear to have misinterpreted what you were trying to say
I know what you mean about relatives money
there have been some good suggestions on this thread I hope you find them useful
I hope you have success with your endeavour

Thanks. I am glad this misunderstanding has been cleared up. I definitely would not like anyone who reads this thread to get the wrong idea about my risk vision towards trading someone else's money...

You said something about trading ETX capital account, did you attract potential investors posting the results here?

Unless something else shows up, It looks as if Collective2 is the most interesting way to build a track record, because in the meantime I could collect a bit of money from people subscribing to it...

 

[gamma]

Thanks. I am glad this misunderstanding has been cleared up. I definitely would not like anyone who reads this thread to get the wrong idea about my risk vision towards trading someone else's money...

You said something about trading ETX capital account, did you attract potential investors posting the results here?

Unless something else shows up, It looks as if Collective2 is the most interesting way to build a track record, because in the meantime I could collect a bit of money from people subscribing to it...

The point is if there is a good signal service with honest results displayed, then I see no reason why one could not build up a following. I believe there are a couple of posters trying to do just that. they have been posting their signals every day, I am not sure how good they are but see that they have a following.
My primary intention with the ETX experiment was not for potential investors, but displaying a live account can have that effect.
May I suggest that you open a account with ETX and use it,to display your progress and results, this should help to prove your point.

I would also suggest that you check with a t2w moderator that your are not breaking any t2w regulations if you go ahead with the above suggestion.
Good luck

 

[gamma]

No one will be happy with a return of 5% a month?!

Would you be happy with a expected 5% return on a unproven trader?

The statement was specific to the OP. not a gereralisation.

 

[delzako]

Would you be happy with a expected 5% return on a unproven trader?

The statement was specific to the OP. not a gereralisation.

Is someone who traded for 5 years but blown out twice in that time more "proven" than someone who's backtested his strategy for 2 years, papertraded for another year, and is now live for a year with consistent monthly profits (with trading records to back up those claims) of about 20% with low to medium risk but very small peak-to-valley drawdowns?

 

[Black Swan]

this is not a 'dig' at the OP but 2 things I've noticed recently, there is an increased 'buddy can you spare a dime?' posts on here and other forums. The pitch has moved on from "I've heard of this website, it has a good rep. could others please visit it and share their thoughts on the signal/strategy before I buy into it?" to "can you just give me some money to trade"...and most of these pleas originate from the US.

Also, and this is just one personal anecdote relating to one of the many businesses I've created/sold/failed at over the past 20 years... I set up an online retailer of electrical goods business in 1999, I had to sell my car (and we had 2 kids), had to get 3 different grants, fell 2 months behind with payments, but was that convinced in the prospect and managed to project that commitment/enthusiasm to others, that within months of trading I sold half the company to an 'internet incubator' (remember them? ) and was then able to pay of all debts and my then tiny mortgage...

Unless I see someone taking a moderate/massive risk, uneprinned by what I'd consider to be a bomb proof blueprint, I wouldn't even get past second paragraph if being asked for cash...as for this "I've got this strat. I just need cash to trade" FFS too many posters have been way too polite. Havn't we all got an edge? What's mine worth?...priceless in the right hands - mine...

 

[gamma]

Is someone who traded for 5 years but blown out twice in that time more "proven" than someone who's backtested his strategy for 2 years, papertraded for another year, and is now live for a year with consistent monthly profits (with trading records to back up those claims) of about 20% with low to medium risk but very small peak-to-valley drawdowns?

Hi Delzako,
You can dismiss paper trading and back testing.No one will pay much attention to those

But what you have of merit is the live account with a years back up which is good.

There is a thread from someone looking for traders with proven records on this forum.
I believe this might be of interest to you.
I will try and dig it out for you when I get some free time.

 

[Mr. Charts]

Maybe do what I and many others had to do, which is work bloody hard and extra hours and save up to get want you want in life; in this case a few thousand pounds/dollars to get started trading.
Maybe I'm a different generation and have different values but I only want to be self-reliant.
This is not about a mortgage, it's a business and as such if you have no security and no capital(which is the way most of us started out) you have to save some capital by working hard to get started.

 

[Paul71]

Hi, I hope this isn't the wrong place to post... but... I have a consistently profitable strategy which I've backtested thoroughly, papertraded for a year and traded live this year. I'm averaging about 20% per month, but due to my financial situation I can't compound and need to take out all profits for living expenses (it is a small account).

This puts me under some pressure to perform, and I am reluctant to accepting money from family or friends for two reasons: it would not be big enough to help me move forward but put unnecessary stress on me and second I think I could have devastating effects on my personal relationships if things didn't go as planned.

I could really use some advice on how to get someone to back me or somehow help me get access to bigger funds. I have a verifiable track record and noticed there are people on this site hiring traders, but I prefer to trade from home instead of working prop.

I'd really appreciate it if you could give me some tips or advice... either here or by PM...

Straight as...

If you haven't got the confidence to back yourself...who the f*ck will!? Go apply to an arcade or something, either that or stay away from the markets.:clover:

 

[iq200]

Mr C.
What you're saying is 100% true. There is no easy way to be a successful. It takes time and commitment. IMO and from personal experience those wanting to use other people's money are those people who want to be successful overnight....

Robster the example in your post was brilliant and so true!

The OP isnt going to like my post but I *know* because I have lost some money in the past by 'investing' with someone who similarly claimed he had good results. I wouldnt recommend anyone investing in someone who had no track record ...
Cheers,
Imran

 

[delzako]

The OP isnt going to like my post but I *know* because I have lost some money in the past by 'investing' with someone who similarly claimed he had good results. I wouldnt recommend anyone investing in someone who had no track record ...
Cheers,
Imran

On the contrary, I agree. I would recommend against investing in someone without a track record. But I have one, unfortunately no one seems interested...

With so many people buying systems and clicking on adverts, paying for chat room signal services,... I thought my proposal was something mutually beneficial and at least I have something to back up my claims.

 

[Shikamaroo]

why dont you just borrow to meet living expenses and compound the account. if you could make money and grow for other ppl, you should be able to grow it for yourself and if you are any good you should probably be able to scratch out a living in two months. "ban your belly"

 

[Black Swan]

On the contrary, I agree. I would recommend against investing in someone without a track record. But I have one, unfortunately no one seems interested...

With so many people buying systems and clicking on adverts, paying for chat room signal services,... I thought my proposal was something mutually beneficial and at least I have something to back up my claims.

Was it a proposal? Are you honestly serious? You expected to solicit funds from a bunch of strangers on a suite of website forums? Ironically, you don't even have a 'dialogue' track record with anyone here......let alone any proof of success...IMHO far too many posters have been way too kind towards you...now pop off and get writing those Nigerian style e-mails...

 

[Rossini]

The thing is mate, I dont really understand your need for investment?

If you average 25% per month, non compounded that's 300% PA. If you only had 10k to trade with you would have £40k in a years time. And remember that's non compounding! Compounded results will obviously be far greater. If you really do believe that you can generate these returns then the only thing that can will eventually stop you growing your account at an exponential rate is liquidity....in the end anyway.

If you don't have 10K (I don't know how much your trading with now) just borrow from family/friends. I know you have said you don't want to for several reasons and I understand them, but for the sake of one year can you not suck it and see.