Think house prices will rise now.. read this...

Listen to people like Saint and you won't go far wrong. True you might not win the short term game (but that often relies on luck anyway) but you'll do alright in the long term.

Overall a very solid post backed up by what I really like - COMMON SENSE.
 
No matter what happens at xmas, the problems run far deeper than a bit of xmas retail can fix. The cracks have been papered over in the hope of a miracle but the gloom is starting to appear. The spending of consumers is still lagging from the boom days because that is their reality but as Attila says, they may be in for a paradigm shift.

The stimulus money allowed bankrupt banks the ability to move their feet and also raise unimaginable sums in rights issues, such as the RBS 200p issue which investors are now trying to sue them for. The majority of investors still buy the short-term housing data that is spewed out by HBOS or RICS because they believe the stock bounce and the spin.

House prices fall 10%, then the obvious dead-cat bounce is labelled as the biggest rise in 5 years. It's just spinning numbers to drag in suckers. Asking HBOS and a team of surveyors to report housing numbers is a bit of a conflict of interest to say the least.

We were told there would be no bear market, no house price falls, no recession... I have zero trust in the leaders who helped to create this mess. The 'Jobless recovery' in economies which are 50-70% consumer almost makes me want to cry. From services to manufacturing to financial services the key components of GDP are losing jobs and contracts. Industries such as oil have been cutting jobs too and some firms are only clinging on due to oil prices.

To cut a long story short, I believe this mess has a lot more pain to dish out. The banks are using the borrowed time to weather future storms. We should too.

I concur with a lot of what you say and indeed much of it is common sense. As I have mentioned before on other posts I do not judge the valuation of companies and banks as fair value based on their earnings. Especially when they have no tangible assets against these daft valuations other than future expected potential profits based on good will :sneaky:.

However, when I was a young student I always thought water was essential to life and free whilst diamonds were of no use and yet worth a fortune. Obviously the answer is in Supply and Demand as one parrot tought me many moons ago. There lies the story of pricing.


Inflation is round the corner and it is the only way out of our debt scenario. Whether Mr Brown sells assets or not the debt mountain is beyond Everest. No government will mount and conquer this beast but that beast will mount each and everyone of us penetrating our wealth and hard earned monis with it's big taxation stick. The only exception ofcourse will be the politicians who will be laughing all the way to the Bankers tickled pink with joy...

As I like to say life is a beach and then one drowns... :cheesy:
 
Anyone ready to short the indeces???

Absolutely not and you are right there was every expert under the Sun saying that this was a fake rally and everything would crash yet it hasn't and that is what markets are all about.


Paul
 
......I did say this on other thread today and I would suggest that people read page 15 of today's FT...

...It is very interesting and revealing as to what was happening behind the scene when this recession was folding...

...In particular Brown, Darling and Shriti Vadera....It is a very interesting read....Shriti walking in the corridors of Brown flat and tripping over Brown's son John's cycle....Mrs Brown wakes and shouts 'John go to bed now it is past midnight....And voice says 'Sorry it is Shriti....

...Brown did something amazing and US did follow his lead including French and Germans....
 
Absolutely not and you are right there was every expert under the Sun saying that this was a fake rally and everything would crash yet it hasn't and that is what markets are all about.


Paul

...There are no experts.....or they are as expert as oneself....if research is there....in pure fundamentals...
 
....He is talking about US generally....for UK and EEC things are very different....
 
...Brown did something amazing and US did follow his lead including French and Germans....

Yes but that is like praising an arsonist for being inventive in how they put out a fire that they actually started in my view.


Paul
 
Where does this attitude come from? if one goes we all go. Why can't people see that given the events that have unfolded in the last 18 months.

....The crap that strted did start from US....and that will be the price UK's economy will pay for linking with US too tightly....We need to take lead from French and Germans...

...And by the way do read page 15 as said in earlier posts....
 
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Yes but that is like praising an arsonist for being inventive in how they put out a fire that they actually started in my view.


Paul

....Complete hokum assessmenmt.....Unless you can explain more in details as to what Brown should have done or he did not do....

....The crap started by Banks...not Politicians... well Politicians as they deregulated the Banks in first place...
 
....Complete hokum assessmenmt.....Unless you can explain more in details as to what Brown should have done or he did not do....

....The crap started by Banks...not Politicians... well Politicians as they deregulated the Banks in first place...


Well theoretically deregulation has increased services and products available. The big bang in the financial services certainly had the desired effect.

I reckon the expecations on the self regulation was over ambitious, unrealistic or as the BoE guvernor would put it not sensible (stupid) ... :cheesy:

A little like letting Mr Fox be the caretaker of the chicken pen.

I'd put that up for Bankers v Politicians??? Harry Hill's fight of the week. :p
 
....He is talking about US generally....for UK and EEC things are very different....

In what way are things very different?
 

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....Interesting charts....explain what you are trying to say....

....None of what he was saying has happened here....Not that it means we are flying high or out of woods yet....but things have responded remarkably well here....

...You seem to have set mindset about economy in the sense that you read too much into all experts....just check the pure fendamentals....I have always said that I do not listen to any experts or for that matter do not believe any predictions or horror stories being posted....

....You were prepared to eat your hat about property prices.,..well they have rebounded to 2007 levels in some areas....

...Explain with charts not cut and paste charts...
 
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....Interesting charts....explain what you are trying to say....

....None of what he was saying has happened here....Not that it means we are flying high or out of woods yet....but things have responded remarkably well here.... how? because unemployment has slowed lol.

...You seem to have set mindset about economy in the sense that you read too much into all experts....just check the pure fendamentals okay what are the fundamental from your perspective?....I have always said that I do not listen to any experts or for that matter do not believe any predictions or horror stories being posted....

....You were prepared to eat your hat about property prices.,..well they have rebounded to 2007 levels in some areas.... Based on what evidence hahahaha? I said over a two year period mate. Check the post.


...Explain with charts not cut and paste charts...

You said
....He is talking about US generally....for UK and EEC things are very different....

I said

In what way are things very different?

Unemployment at almost 10%
Poor manufacture output.
Banks still not lending esp not for insurance and and pension funds i.e. they are very very wary of equities.
Lending is not happening outside of inter-bank and it's all about trying to fiddle the balance sheets. It was also specifically noted that there is still a bleak outlook housing market in MFI.
Consider that and then look at employment growth outside of construction. Also, see how far loans are diverged from GDP... Still... after all of the fiddling.
They state themselves that QE is inflating risk assets in EEC... just like US

The only difference as far as I can see is that the that the Eur is the preferred currency atm and that is what's buoying things up.
 
You seem to have set mindset about economy in the sense that you read too much into all experts....

I'm not reading too much into anything mate. These are the people who decide interest rates and say what's what. They're opinion matters more in the long term than Jack down the road saying his house price has gone up/been inflated again so as not to cause a mass rush to estate agents and completely smash the market by over-supply.
 
The only difference as far as I can see is that the that the Eur is the preferred currency atm and that is what's buoying things up.

Why is EUR the preferred one..?

.....Don't you think that your last line sums up what I am trying to say...??

...But on a serious note, you are right and that things did get preety bleak....Banks were not just on verge, but did collapse at one stage....And when that happens everything else follows...

...Unemplyment of 10% is not a big factor this time in the sense that it is mostly young...and economy of UK is effectively controlled by top 35%....And they have been busy buying few things...They actually never had it this good.....For businessman the base rate at 0.5% is very good...!
 
You have tunnel vision

Why is EUR the preferred one..? temporary

.....Don't you think that your last line sums up what I am trying to say...??

...But on a serious note, you are right and that things did get preety bleak....Banks were not just on verge, but did collapse at one stage....And when that happens everything else follows...

...Unemplyment of 10% is not a big factor this time in the sense that it is mostly young wrong...and economy of UK is effectively controlled by top 35% irrelevant when you consider the state of the economy and the contracting EEC GDP showed in the charts before....And they have been busy buying few things...They actually never had it this good.....For businessman the base rate at 0.5% is very good are you seriously not considering the factors that lead to such a low base rate when you make these statements?...!
 
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