The Market Matrix

[robster4]

Tim

I'm using Dynamic Trader because that's what SC does his analysis on and it's the easiest one to use for these techniques. In the past I've used TradeStation and Genesis but have got along very well with DT4.

Regarding programming it into some sort of code I'd say it would be difficult for certain elements and easier for others.

For me, one of the comforting factors about this is the amount of work necessary. To be fair it was never sold to me as something I could learn in 5 minutes. It's taken me a long time to allow it all to sink in and it does require a completely different trading mentality, with tons of lateral thinking. But it's now very rewarding both intellectually and financially speaking. I'm not alone in that in some senses it's also been something of a spiritual experience too.

I guess the bottom line is that it'll suit some people and it won't suit others. But it's certainly a genuine technique for those who have the stomach for it.

What platform do you trade through robster4 ? - I understand from the blurb that one needs to do do significant work with historical data for each stock /instrument to generate a type of 'signature' ; which then allows fib analysis of some sort using 'correct' reference points- is this process something that could be done in code by a programmer ?

 

[robster4]

A320

You could say I come from the school of Fib, having done training with both Robert Krauz and Joe DiNapoli, who doesn't entertain Fib time at all. Even on Fib price though there are some key differences between MM and others that I've studied.

robster4 had you encountered advance Time & price (fib) before you went on Nexus :?:

 

[robster4]

No, you're right...I haven't, and nor have most people reading here either. What you're suggesting is that if anyone does enough research they can find anything they want. What you avoid is where they should look and what they should look for!

Back to the main topic, I had experience of the various MM components before I was introduced to it. And two of them I'd discounted as unworkable. But seeing it pieced together in a cogent and workable format is, I guess, the value-added that the MM has provided me and many others with.

I take it you not come across jocham Bahr's work....Jenkins also springs to mind.. as for v**x take your pick from the likes of Cowan ect....

Anyway thats enough from me...the info is already out there if one takes the time to look....

 

[robster4]

correction

Old GreyWT

I forwarded your comment to Steve Copan and he has confirmed the example as valid because he always trades the continuous contract.

Hopefully this helps.

I don't want anyone to take this as a general knock against the Market Matrix but the main "killer" profit example shown on their website just didn't happen. The claim is that Soybeans fell from 10.35 to 7.94 in one day. The 10.35 price was the high on 7th July 04 for the July contract. The low the next day was 9.41 (still a decent move but less than 40% of the claimed profit). This may well be a genuine mistake as many data vendors would roll the contract around that time into the next contract. July 05 beans were trading much lower than July 04 but there is no way you can be short in an 04 contract and take the profit in an 05 contract without adjusting for the difference that exists (with the exception that a spread betting company makes a huge mathematical error). So, although it appears on the charts it is in practice not possible to trade the move. Also the quoted frequency of this type of move seems a little hopeful. The last time beans had a move like this was back in 1997 and before that 1988. So you might have to wait for a while to get a similar mad month. I have no idea whether this product is good, bad or indifferent but the marketing of it seems to have overlooked some basic facts.

 

[OldGreyWT]

The reality of trading on a contract roll

Robster4: Thanks for forwarding the information onto Steve but I am afraid I must disagree with his comment about the trade being "valid because he always trades the continuous contract”, unless he uses a spreadbetting company which is making a huge error. The example on the website says that the high was 10.35 and the low the next day was 7.94. The high price of 10.35 is from July 04 beans and the low of 7.94 is August 04 beans. Both prices and contract months have been confirmed by the exchange. You can’t sell one and buy back the other without the basis adjustment being made. As at the close of business on July 7th that adjustment would have been very near to $1.40 which is a large negative adjustment (£140,000 of his “profit”). I am not disputing that a good profit was made or that the methods do what it says on the can, I am disputing the size of the profit quoted on the website. It doesn’t matter whether it is Steve or the spreadbetting company, somebody has to pay to get that position rolled over. It should be Steve as he is the owner of the position. It will be the spreadbetting company if they have messed up the roll.
Just to add a touch more reality to this. “A simple £10 spread bet” as described on the website is about 35 futures contracts. From memory this would have required an initial margin of over £100,000 (a multiple of the amount required today).
Everything I have said can be checked, so if I am wrong please can someone show me where the error is. I will gladly post a big red face.

 

[robster4]

OGWT

Many thanks for your post. I'm pretty sure that SC only spread-bets, but I'll make sure your post gets relayed to him.

As a student of MM, (and this trade is on the CDs) the example is valid as it perfectly hits a price/time cluster junction of his special numbers, but it may be a case that the copy-writers have made the absolute most of the example.

I much appreciate your posts however and you've confirmed why I don't like to mess with commodities!

Robster4: Thanks for forwarding the information onto Steve but I am afraid I must disagree with his comment about the trade being "valid because he always trades the continuous contract”, unless he uses a spreadbetting company which is making a huge error. The example on the website says that the high was 10.35 and the low the next day was 7.94. The high price of 10.35 is from July 04 beans and the low of 7.94 is August 04 beans. Both prices and contract months have been confirmed by the exchange. You can’t sell one and buy back the other without the basis adjustment being made. As at the close of business on July 7th that adjustment would have been very near to $1.40 which is a large negative adjustment (£140,000 of his “profit”). I am not disputing that a good profit was made or that the methods do what it says on the can, I am disputing the size of the profit quoted on the website. It doesn’t matter whether it is Steve or the spreadbetting company, somebody has to pay to get that position rolled over. It should be Steve as he is the owner of the position. It will be the spreadbetting company if they have messed up the roll.
Just to add a touch more reality to this. “A simple £10 spread bet” as described on the website is about 35 futures contracts. From memory this would have required an initial margin of over £100,000 (a multiple of the amount required today).
Everything I have said can be checked, so if I am wrong please can someone show me where the error is. I will gladly post a big red face.

 

[OldGreyWT]

R4 Thanks for your comments. They are not the first nor will they be the last to include a contract roll in their P&L by mistake.

 

[TheBramble]

As a student of MM, (and this trade is on the CDs) the example is valid as it perfectly hits a price/time cluster junction of his special numbers, !

Time Price Clusters? Gann & Special Fibs. A powerful combination!

All Steve needs now is someone who knows something about actual trading to write the blurb for his £1,999 3-cd set to avoid similar embarassments as you (no doubt) continue your advertising campaign.

 

[TheBramble]

Had to smile a the word special

Are these the 'Special' Fib numbers that Leonardo himself missed?

Can't trust those damned Rabbits.

Leave alone for one second and they're off - making new numbers all over the place.

 

[TheBramble]

Time Price Clusters? Gann & Special Fibs. A powerful combination!

All Steve needs now is someone who knows something about actual trading to write the blurb for his £1,999 3-cd set to avoid similar embarassments as you (no doubt) continue your advertising campaign.

Didn't want to edit my original post....

An offer to Kev and Steve...I can work up a really good (retrospective) trade scenario that would fit in plausibly with your claims and wouldn't be detected by people who actually do trade (as opposed to bods who don't and just market 'trading systems').

Let me know if you're interested and I'll send you my draft copy. Wont be cheap though...

Note to Mods: Please feel free to move to 'Classifieds' if you think this entire thread belongs there...

 

[Bigbusiness]

I did a search and found this book www.kanetrading.com/books/books.html#aftc

Don't know if it is any good but it is a bit cheaper than the 3 cd's

 

[Trader1618]

Invitation to the Kane Trading website

Hello all,

I've noticed a lot of traffic to my website recently from this forum, and I tracked it back to the post made recently by Bigbusiness about one of my books. I wanted to invite everyone to look over my website, where I have over 150 free archived commentaries posted, plus some free articles. I am not trying to advertise or sell anything via this forum, as I respect the non-commercial nature here.

I give away more detailed information on my site than many people sell in their entire product line. I have a very different approach to the use of Fibonacci, and I wanted to invite anyone with interest in this area to check it out. If this posting is inappropriate then feel free to delete it, and I apologize. As I said, feel free to study the free material and see if it is of any use to you. I am not asking anyone to buy any books or anything. If I get positive feedback I would be willing to contribute to the forum, as time allows.

Jim Kane

www.kanetrading.com

 

[NedKelly]

Old GreyWT

I forwarded your comment to Steve Copan and he has confirmed the example as valid because he always trades the continuous contract.

Hopefully this helps.

How do you trade a continuous contract, it doesn't exist?

 

[Shiver]

I'm seriously interested in this product, but retain a healthy level of skepticism for any product of this type. What would sell it to me very easily is if someone would post up 3 or 4 highs/lows that should occur in the near future so that we can all watch it unfold.

So much type copy could be saved with a simple demonstration of the results of this method, and no techniques need to be revealed. Would Robster4, Steve, Tom or anyone else be prepared to do that?

 

[Welshgirl]

I heard the Audio interview with Steve Copan today and I think that Shiver (posting above) has a good point as this would allow interested parties here to see this in action. As I am post 44 on the subject there is obviously a good deal of interest.
I would also be interested in knowing how much money one would need to start trading using this technique - say with a view to making £3k per month.
Finally how long does it take for the techniques to be learnt following the 1-day workshop are we talking weeks or months?

 

[cj12]

Welshgirl are you new to trading. I would suspect you are because you are thinking of the money at first hand.3k a month. to do this you would need about 27 points a day trading the YM everyday for a month based on trading 2 lots. This is not easy.

if you where to trade 4 lots a day you would need 13,5 points a day..but you would need an account of 20 k if you only want to risk 1% of you account on trading 4 lots with a 10 point stops. if can only could afford a 10k account you would need to risk 2% of your account.and so on.

Go out and by lots of books and take a little form one book and a little from anther book, And save you money on expensive workshops.and read lots on this site for free


The above is based on $$$ and this would give you $5400 a month tern it in to sterling you get 3k


sun

 

[Welshgirl]

No Sun123 not new! I tend to go for short term investments anything from a few days to many months. I have not yet done any live spreadbetting/CFD's/options/futures although I am well read on the subject.
I quoted £3k a month above to see what answer this might elicit from Robbie (the guy with the MM). I have considerably more than the £20k you quote at my disposal and I am well versed in risk management otherwise I would be broke! I am one of the world's cynics myself but I am always open to reasonable debate and I am genuinely interested in hearing more about Steve Copan and his techniques.
Unlike many others I have yet to fall for or put money into the works of Stanzione et al!
Just found the forum today whilst searching for info on Steve Copan - and it looks a good and useful site to me so I hope to be here quite a bit and will look out for your postings in future

 

[TheBramble]

I still carn't believe people carn't see the fib methods used on the Matrix site. Carn't people count bars, Or subtract fibs to get price targets :?:

Is it really that hard...

cj - do you mean to say Fibs work in TIME as well at Price???

 

[TheBramble]

Vexus PLUS???

 

[robster4]

views from a MM buyer

I think what people are writing here is a real shame and the only conclusion I can draw is that no-one here could actually have seen the MM apart from me.

It’s all very well listing the various places one could find the various component parts of MM. The point is how you put it all together to make a really profound trading methodology.

I met Steve Copan on his course, and although he can be abrasive, there is no doubt about the authenticity of his trading. Having bought the course CDs and now as a member of the MM Yahoo Board, I’m even happier about it every day, particularly last week where I made a boatload using purely MM methods. It took me about 2 months of real hard work before I had the confidence in myself to put it into practice but it’s been worth the effort.

I’ve done Fib before in its various guises (including DiNapoli), I’ve studied Delta before. But not with the nuances with which MM uses them and not tied together in the way it does. I admit it’s taken a lot of time, effort and energy to “sync” it in my mind but it’s given me a view of the market I never had before and in any time frame I care to choose – intraday or longer.

In terms of predictions, I understand your feelings, but for those of us who did attend his course, he actually did make clear projections which a couple of people did follow up (I didn’t I’m afraid!) and paid for their course with the profits.

I think your best course of action would be to find people who have bought this thing and ask them directly how they feel about it. My friends who have it are also really pleased with it and now making money.

No Sun123 not new! I tend to go for short term investments anything from a few days to many months. I have not yet done any live spreadbetting/CFD's/options/futures although I am well read on the subject.
I quoted £3k a month above to see what answer this might elicit from Robbie (the guy with the MM). I have considerably more than the £20k you quote at my disposal and I am well versed in risk management otherwise I would be broke! I am one of the world's cynics myself but I am always open to reasonable debate and I am genuinely interested in hearing more about Steve Copan and his techniques.
Unlike many others I have yet to fall for or put money into the works of Stanzione et al!
Just found the forum today whilst searching for info on Steve Copan - and it looks a good and useful site to me so I hope to be here quite a bit and will look out for your postings in future