The end of the EU

I remember the referndum in the 1970s on the EU

The enthusiasts sold it to the majority on the concept that it was a beneficial trade agreement. I have to confess I didn't spend weeks wading through all the verbiage but even so suspected a political dimension and have been proved right. Ted Heath was the culprit that sold us down the EU river.

75% of Brits want out and Cameron is dragging his feet over the issue, don't say he has sold out to them !!
 
Loads of Brits sellling up in France etc and returning to the UK because of the decreasing purchasing power of the pound !
 
Loads of Brits sellling up in France etc and returning to the UK because of the decreasing purchasing power of the pound !

They'll know, I suppose, otherwise they would not be returning home. It has to be inflation, because the exchange is fairly constant. Is inflation worse here than in England? I am in Spain, of course.
Maybe, they are younger ones, working, and have lost their jobs.
 
nice to see politicians further their careers on the back of bankrupting everyone else.

without global rebalancing the west is never going to grow and the money will just run out and be back to square one.
 
nice to see politicians further their careers on the back of bankrupting everyone else.

without global rebalancing the west is never going to grow and the money will just run out and be back to square one.


i am beginning to get quite worried about how all this is going to turn out.

1) It is obvious, as you say, that politicians will fudge any kind of balance sheet to get the numbers right, at least, during their watch after which they will complain bitterly that the new government isn't doing it properly.

2) In my 80 odd years I have never seen a retired, poor, politician.

3) Merkel said that Europe is in its worst crisis since WWII.

4) The banks have not, as I understand it, agreed to the 50% write off, yet, so there more weeks of indecision ahead of us. In any case. we, the taxpayers will have to bail some banks out, I can see that coming.

5 73 billions of printed money pumped into the UK economy this week? I wonder what they are doing this side of the Channel?
 
cds that are too big to pay out without crashing the system should be scrapped. its just a way to go long the taxpayer
 
5 73 billions of printed money pumped into the UK economy this week? I wonder what they are doing this side of the Channel?

Who exactly gets their hands on this £73 billion ? One suspects it is pocketed by devious means by the elite and then the banks will be back for more.
Sort of daylight robbery by the usual suspects who never get caught. Not a penny of it seems to trickle down to yours truly.
 
I am surprised that the bankers / traders and people like your good selves (you know who you are Pat and Co et al.,) on these bloggs - The West (US and Europe) as we have come to know it are blaming socialism for our poor position.

Yet of all the other continents doing well are - the non democratic socialist and previous communist states.

In fact it is laughable that capitalism has been bailed out by the tax payer socialism with nationalisation of big free market public banks too big to fail with and some people are S T I I I I I L L L L L L blaiming socialism.

It is an absolute bleeding joke. There must be so many people in denial it is ridiculous.


We have pumped so much into bailing out the big capitalistic run free and unregulated money markets that outside of defence adn military spending I don't think anything comes remotely close to the figures.

One could meet social security costs of these advanced countries for the next 50 years at a 5 star level and still have change left over.

Yet it is socialism that is the problem? YOU GUYS AVING A LAUGH OR WHAT?


IT IS PRECISELY A FAILURE OF CAPITALISM and like pollution from a car, the social cost of capitalism is pretty heavy. Burn out, sale of **** one doesn't need. Individualism and isolation. Splitting of families and lack of cohesion. The evolution of the nuclear family over the classical extended family. Lack of support and total disconnect from social conscience. I'm alright Jack you bloody well mind your own back.


I think deep down people know this capitalism produce until you are dead crap is pretty obvious but instead we are led to believe by some that these problems are result of not carrying FREE MARKET policies and PURE CAPITALISM as it should be exercised.

People are freaking mental - you know like those who want to instigate PURE CAPITALISM or PURE SHARIAH or PURE FREAKING ANYTHING?

No reason and no balance in life leads one into total destruction.



Guys get a grip. What we have here is a failure to communicate. :cheesy: (From the film Cool Hand Luke).

Banking and Finance and Public listed Companies with mirriads of shareholders have absolutely FA to do with socialism.


WAKEY WAKEY - rise and shine - have some cofffffffffeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....


Anybody in thereeeeeeeeeeeeeeee???????????????????????????
 
i find it funny that people take something simple, mundane and common like a fraud [selling those triple A mortgages] and then use that as an excuse to blow it up into the 'failure of capitalism lets have anarchy' stuff.

a handful of people screwed the world economy.

if someone picks my pocket is that the 'failure of capitalism'?
 
i find it funny that people take something simple, mundane and common like a fraud [selling those triple A mortgages] and then use that as an excuse to blow it up into the 'failure of capitalism lets have anarchy' stuff.

a handful of people screwed the world economy.

if someone picks my pocket is that the 'failure of capitalism'?



If it was fraud then identify the fraudster and apply rule of law.

Mundane and common like a simple fraud even the biggest Madoff's $50bn pales into insignificance against the trillions in bailouts given to prop up the banks on both sides of the pond.

Now if it just about every major investment bank participating in the fraud then is that not the system. The West as in US and EU representing the free market?


Yet another market enthusiast who is still deluded. Let's blame;

1. Fraud
2. Fascism
3. Socialism
4. Fiat currency system


BUT it certainly wasn't anything do with capitalism, free markets, lack of regulation, risk management or controls or excessive risk taking to get even more numeration and bonues or highly leveraged derivatives or subprime mortgages, CDOs or any other financial instrument dealt with in the private investment banking sector. Ofcourse it wasn't. Don't be daft :cheesy:

With due respect - traders and bankers are full of BS in denial.
 
That old lefty Will Hutton was on This Week on BBC1 last night and was insisting that despite it's present difficulties Britain will be begging to join the other 17 countries (of the current 27 total in the Eu) in the Euro currency by 2020. He reckons that Britain cannot survive outside of a major block such as North America or the Eu into the medium term. Portilo was repeating a story from some Spamiard who reckons they will kick us out of the Eu any and whether they do or don't there is certainly a euro-scpetic view in this counntry...and any referendum to leave the Eu would be won.

Is he right or wrong ?

G/L
 
.....If it was fraud then identify the fraudster and apply rule of law.....

it was. goldman got fined 500m.

ignoring economic laws is the problem.

goldman also were behind hiding the greek debt.
 
That old lefty Will Hutton was on This Week on BBC1 last night and was insisting that despite it's present difficulties Britain will be begging to join the other 17 countries (of the current 27 total in the Eu) in the Euro currency by 2020. He reckons that Britain cannot survive outside of a major block such as North America or the Eu into the medium term. Portilo was repeating a story from some Spamiard who reckons they will kick us out of the Eu any and whether they do or don't there is certainly a euro-scpetic view in this counntry...and any referendum to leave the Eu would be won.

Is he right or wrong ?

G/L

There is only one thing wrong with the concept of a EU. It has grown far too quickly.

Because it needed to grow economically, it allowed the poorer members of Europe to join. Constructing a community like this is an incredibly slow process and the original six, including nations as diverse as France and Germany, with all the old antagonisms swept under the carpet, had enough to do in getting themselves sorted out, first.

These nations united, mainly, to avoid future wars, In this, EU has been successful--it is 65 years since there has been a war between member nations. That, in this atomic age, is worth having, believe me!

The rest of it has been Capitalism gone mad and driven by stupid , nationalist politicians, most of them unsuccessful in their own countries and sent to Brusssels to be pensioned off. You sent Neil Kinnock and the ex-governor of Hong Kong, we sent a disgraced future socialist prime minister, whose name I've forgotten, who got mixed up in tax fraud. All countries got rid of their embarrasments!

The mad dash to a common currency was made by a group of nations that has no common foreign policy, no common economic policy and no common defence system. It would take days if not weeks, to agree to defend itself!

Sarkozy, today, said that Greece should never have been allowed to join in 2001. The reality is that we are in 2011 and Greece, as we all know, is in. It is today's problem, along with a lot of other things.

I believe that Europe is worth working on but it's going to be very difficult to get 27 member states all pulling together, especially as Germany seems to be the only motor working, at present.

As far as the UK is concerned, I would not allow it to enter the Euro until all this is sorted out. It doesn't make any sense. In Europe, we don't need to know the results of a referendum. For goodness sake, it's obvious to us that you would be one more problem, unless you are going to pull with the two majors here. Three major nations squabbling, instead of two, is what the rest of us do not need. However, pull out of Europe, altogether? Big mistake.
 
.....If it was fraud then identify the fraudster and apply rule of law.....

it was. goldman got fined 500m.

ignoring economic laws is the problem.

goldman also were behind hiding the greek debt.


Ahh well that explains it all thanks oiltanker...

Wait - hoollld those changes to capitalism.

Bring it back it ain't broken it's just abused. :LOL:


Get the rule book out and give it to the admins. RTFM problem obviously. :cheesy:
 
There is only one thing wrong with the concept of a EU. It has grown far too quickly.

Because it needed to grow economically, it allowed the poorer members of Europe to join. Constructing a community like this is an incredibly slow process and the original six, including nations as diverse as France and Germany, with all the old antagonisms swept under the carpet, had enough to do in getting themselves sorted out, first.

These nations united, mainly, to avoid future wars, In this, EU has been successful--it is 65 years since there has been a war between member nations. That, in this atomic age, is worth having, believe me!

The rest of it has been Capitalism gone mad and driven by stupid , nationalist politicians, most of them unsuccessful in their own countries and sent to Brusssels to be pensioned off. You sent Neil Kinnock and the ex-governor of Hong Kong, we sent a disgraced future socialist prime minister, whose name I've forgotten, who got mixed up in tax fraud. All countries got rid of their embarrasments!

The mad dash to a common currency was made by a group of nations that has no common foreign policy, no common economic policy and no common defence system. It would take days if not weeks, to agree to defend itself!

Sarkozy, today, said that Greece should never have been allowed to join in 2001. The reality is that we are in 2011 and Greece, as we all know, is in. It is today's problem, along with a lot of other things.

I believe that Europe is worth working on but it's going to be very difficult to get 27 member states all pulling together, especially as Germany seems to be the only motor working, at present.

As far as the UK is concerned, I would not allow it to enter the Euro until all this is sorted out. It doesn't make any sense. In Europe, we don't need to know the results of a referendum. For goodness sake, it's obvious to us that you would be one more problem, unless you are going to pull with the two majors here. Three major nations squabbling, instead of two, is what the rest of us do not need. However, pull out of Europe, altogether? Big mistake.


Yep and can you imagine have a unified army to be managed by these twits?

How about a global foreign policy too.

They are yet to manage their domestic affairs and few years back they were talking about foreign domination.


However, I still favour the EU and I think probs will be resolved. We will have inflation and market indeces will double in another 10 years. (y)


Futures looking very rosy :)
 
i think the greater punishment is letting people try to whisk water into a thick cream and not saying anything :)
 
Yep and can you imagine have a unified army to be managed by these twits?

We haven't got a unified army because of these twits. If we did have a unified army Britain would not have been involved in Iraq unless we were all in.

Britain cannot afford these wars. At least Europe seems to have got that right! Only by accident, though.
 
The last time Europe had some unity was under Chalemagne and then it split up.

Why not have a trading area and independent countries ? They were all doing ok before this unity nonsense.

If the small fry need help it won't be for free. They will be selling out on their Sovereignty. I can't see the Germans just giving away their hard earned money for ever. So how will they enforce debt repayment ? Do I hear the sound of marching jackboots yet again ? Don't hide your heads in the sand politicians - it could happen again !!
 
the problem is growth to pay the debts. as long as its 10 yuan = £1 and not the other way around growth and jobs will leach out of the uk and eu.
 
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