Terrorism????...Blame America!!!!

[dick_dastardly]

Why wait until 2012?

Why not look at 2008 - China or
Why not look at 2004 - Athens?

How does your definition of terrorism fit in around those countries?

Why do you feel August 2012 is likely to be a target?



If you seriously believe the Bush and Blair BS-mantra about the wars keeping our streets safe from terrorists you are delusional.

Those wars are making us a target and this is your alter twisted ego thinking it justifies the wars.

Lemme guess your answer - they don't like our freedom, democracy and way of life which we have been trying to bomb down their throats...

For FS DD - there are soldiers dying for this BS and you are smug in your mighty noble ideas. You obviously have seen and learnt FA in the last 7 years.

At least the US have recognised their errors and trying to correct them. You carry on as you were...

CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN! :-0
Just wanted to put something here to link back to in a couple of years time, that's all.

Don't be so grumpy Atilla, think of it this way: the crescent kissers have two years to think up some conspiracy BS that will shift the blame from perpetrator to victim - think positive Atilla!


dd

 

[Atilla]

CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN! :-0
Just wanted to put something here to link back to in a couple of years time, that's all.

Don't be so grumpy Atilla, think of it this way: the crescent kissers have two years to think up some conspiracy BS that will shift the blame from perpetrator to victim - think positive Atilla!


dd

If I was any calmer I'd be 6 feet under...

 

[Atilla]

CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN! CALM DOWN! :-0
Just wanted to put something here to link back to in a couple of years time, that's all.

Don't be so grumpy Atilla, think of it this way: the crescent kissers have two years to think up some conspiracy BS that will shift the blame from perpetrator to victim - think positive Atilla!


dd

There you go DD - see if you can spot the Terrorists?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8608972.stm

 

[maiden22]

There you go DD - see if you can spot the Terrorists?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8608972.stm

This was not terrorism.

The helicopter crew fired on what they thought were armed men, whilst in support of infantry units on the ground, in a combat situation. It seems to have been a genuine and tragic mistake - if this is not the case, please point to the evidence.

They did not, for example, strap a load of explosives to a helicopter and send it into a busy Israeli pizza parlour filled with what they knew to be civilians.

You can say that the helicopter crew's actions were wrong. You might argue that their actions were incompetent, arrogant, grossly negligent, stupid and a whole host of other things. You could argue that these deaths were completely avoidable, you could argue that those responsible should face charges, in fact you can argue anything you want.

What you cannot do is change the meaning of words to suit your purposes. There are plenty of ways for you to criticise America / Israel / The West without resorting to this.

 

[Atilla]

This was not terrorism.

The helicopter crew fired on what they thought were armed men, whilst in support of infantry units on the ground, in a combat situation. It seems to have been a genuine and tragic mistake - if this is not the case, please point to the evidence.

They did not, for example, strap a load of explosives to a helicopter and send it into a busy Israeli pizza parlour filled with what they knew to be civilians.

You can say that the helicopter crew's actions were wrong. You might argue that their actions were incompetent, arrogant, grossly negligent, stupid and a whole host of other things. You could argue that these deaths were completely avoidable, you could argue that those responsible should face charges, in fact you can argue anything you want.

What you cannot do is change the meaning of words to suit your purposes. There are plenty of ways for you to criticise America / Israel / The West without resorting to this.

You are technically right if you wish to play on words.

But check out the thread header with the question marks and make what you will of it?

Even the USA has come to the realisation of their actions were creating terrorists and their whole strategy in Iraq and Afghanistan has subsequently changed with better results compared to what they did and what was achieved in the beginning.

You can twist and turn and conjure up anything you want to suit your purposes too.

 

[Atilla]

This was not terrorism.

The helicopter crew fired on what they thought were armed men, whilst in support of infantry units on the ground, in a combat situation. It seems to have been a genuine and tragic mistake - if this is not the case, please point to the evidence.

They did not, for example, strap a load of explosives to a helicopter and send it into a busy Israeli pizza parlour filled with what they knew to be civilians.

You can say that the helicopter crew's actions were wrong. You might argue that their actions were incompetent, arrogant, grossly negligent, stupid and a whole host of other things. You could argue that these deaths were completely avoidable, you could argue that those responsible should face charges, in fact you can argue anything you want.

What you cannot do is change the meaning of words to suit your purposes. There are plenty of ways for you to criticise America / Israel / The West without resorting to this.

Here is another one of your technical legalised theft of land & property announcements which I'm sure you will be able to justify.

IDF order will enable mass deportation from West Bank Policies of Israel are designed to isolate and apply as much hard ship as possible to these endogenous people.

Furthermore - http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1161632.html anyone that disagrees with Israel's Likud party line get persucuted to the point of being thrown out of Israeli citizenships. What next???

I wonder if the previous Gaza mission were played out again how Israel would be dealt with this time round??? Here is a reminder http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/03/23/israel.gaza.un.report/index.html of what you may term legitimate action.

imo Netanyahu and the Likud party are doing grave damage to Israel's interests with their extreme terrorising actions to get the Palistinians to leave. Netanyahu said he wasn't worried. He may not be but Israel should be imho!

 

[maiden22]

Here is another one of your technical legalised theft of land & property announcements which I'm sure you will be able to justify.

IDF order will enable mass deportation from West Bank Policies of Israel are designed to isolate and apply as much hard ship as possible to these endogenous people.

Furthermore - http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1161632.html anyone that disagrees with Israel's Likud party line get persucuted to the point of being thrown out of Israeli citizenships. What next???

I wonder if the previous Gaza mission were played out again how Israel would be dealt with this time round??? Here is a reminder http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/03/23/israel.gaza.un.report/index.html of what you may term legitimate action.

imo Netanyahu and the Likud party are doing grave damage to Israel's interests with their extreme terrorising actions to get the Palistinians to leave. Netanyahu said he wasn't worried. He may not be but Israel should be imho!

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with most of this - I understood this to be a thread about terrorism.

I'll look at the first story in more detail when I've got time, but personally I don't take what Haaretz says at face value. It's left-leaning bias is well known, and indeed the paper makes little secret of it. However, if the Israeli government acts improperly then it should be condemned, in the same way and to the same extent as any other government should be.

I d not know why you think this:

"another one of your technical legalised theft of land & property announcements which I'm sure you will be able to justify. "

I do not support theft of land or property, and I would be surprised if you could produce anything that I have written that suggests I do. Please do so or withdraw the unfounded accusation.

The story about censorship is strange - I really can't see the relevance of that at all. However, the headline (Does censorship in Israel resemble that in Iran? ) is thoroughly foolish. It does not.

The UN report you reference has been dealt with elsewhere - suffice it to say that it is my opinion that the report (and indeed the majority of the UN) is ludicrously biased against Israel, although of course others might disagree. A cynical person might magine that the UN's wildly imbalanced level of criticism directed against Israel, if not motivated by Jew-hatred (which in many cases it plainly is), is at least suspiciously convenient as it helps deflect attention from the countless human rights abuses of its members, which go mostly unremarked.

However, if you wish to discuss that report in depth I'm more than willing to do so. One thing I did notice in the article you reference is this sentence:

"Also cited were "credible reports" that accused Hamas, the militant Palestinian group that runs Gaza, of using human shields and placing civilians at risk."

One final point - you seem to be under the mistaken impression that I am some kind of Israeli apologist. I am not - I simply think that we should endeavour to think clearly, for that is the foundation of morality (thank you TD).

 

[Atilla]

Maiden, I was having a tit-for-tat with DD who has some pretty profound togue and cheek views when you piped up with no empathy for the deaths of innocent people and started barking - about the pilots in military uniform killing civilians strolling on a sunny day following a camera man as an accidental matter.

It was pretty clear from that video if there was a fire fight - the proximity of which we don't know but I doubt it was near - the way those young men in their prime were walking were hardly fighting material - having a stroll in their T-shirts and flip-flops.

Looks like a gun? What the f*** are those pilots trained on. So 'he lights up' and kills all of em without blinking an eye'? He then subsequently celebrates.

The blood lusting ****ing terrorists in uniform with a $20-40m killing machine hasn't had enough and continues killing the men who come to rescue the wounded. Also injuring young children in the van.

You then pipe up with your perspecitve of how those pilots made a simple mistake. Surely they are not terrorists. They are the worst kind of terrorists bully boys in uniform mate. They get high on the **** listening to heavy rock. What does that tell you?

But you don't stop there.

You bring Israel into it as if they are some guiding light of brilliance - pushing destitute people to such a brutal occupation of existence that they willingly becoming suicidal MANIACS WITH BOMBS. Now that is a real terrorist you say. Really?

I beg to differ. I have lost my faith and am not led by any factions but humanity which is the same throughout the globe.

The Iraq war - was for WMD - which then changed to implementing US freedom and democracy (which means US friendly puppet regimes).

A number of reports by the US found no link between Osama the CIA trained terrorists and Iraq the CIA trained and elected Saddam tyrant. It is purely about theft and oil.

Saddam turned on US after he learnt they were supplying Iran whilst encouraging Iraq to attack Iran. Do you not see a moral dilemma here? You remember Colonel North?

So for you to suggest the pilot made an understandable mistake is a travesty of justice imho. This isn't the first incident either. Hundreds of them. Of those hundreds only a handful ever get investigated. Of those investigated, very few ever reach mass media.

As for the apology - I don't feel one is warranted. It is Israel that is stealing land and property not you. If you associate your self and argue their case then you can judge your own conscience if what you are saying is right or wrong.

Cencorship in Israel does exist! Mordechai Vanunu's punishment should tell you the answer to that question. What was the mans crime?

 

[bhavin]

America is NOT creating terrorism<
watch this video and then feel free to comment:

 

[dick_dastardly]

There you go DD - see if you can spot the Terrorists?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8608972.stm

ooooh look at you getting all excited because a load of muslims got taken out; must feel like Christmas for you? :clap: :drunk: arty:


Come on Atilla, don't judge other people by your own standards; do you really believe I am so hostage to my own opinions that I would defend such a thing?

I watched this horrific vid last week on the Wikileaks site when the story first broke ( interesting web site BTW ) and I found it very hard to watch.

Strangely, for me, the most shocking part was in the audio when one of the US military personnel on realising they had just taken out a bunch of civilians went into total denial and tried to blame the victims for taking children into a conflict situation.

I suppose if you want to analyse it I would say it was a case of those who are predisposed to see opportunities to pull the trigger will see such opportunities even when there are none ( sound familiar? )

I don't know why you're getting so exited and rejoicing in this news story Atilla? There are far better ( or worse depending upon you perspective ) examples you could have chosen from.

What about the USS Vincennes, a U.S. Navy Ticonderoga class Aegis guided missile cruiser. In 1988, the ship shot down Iran Air Flight 655 over the Persian Gulf, killing all 290 civilian passengers on board, including 38 non-Iranians and 66 children.

Oh! BTW, the ship was launched 14 April 1984 which makes it 26 years old today ( Happy Birthday Vincennes arty: )

I see on the news this morning that the Pakistani army have had a similar incident and killed around 70 civilians,

I guess only idealists believe you can wage war without killing civilians.

I understand even the Taliban have had problems in the past. They've slaughtered so many pakistani Muslim civilians they've inadvertantly managed to take out the odd military target on the odd occasion.

dd

 

[Atilla]

ooooh look at you getting all excited because a load of muslims got taken out; must feel like Christmas for you? :clap: :drunk: arty:


Come on Atilla, don't judge other people by your own standards; do you really believe I am so hostage to my own opinions that I would defend such a thing?

I watched this horrific vid last week on the Wikileaks site when the story first broke ( interesting web site BTW ) and I found it very hard to watch.

Strangely, for me, the most shocking part was in the audio when one of the US military personnel on realising they had just taken out a bunch of civilians went into total denial and tried to blame the victims for taking children into a conflict situation.

I suppose if you want to analyse it I would say it was a case of those who are predisposed to see opportunities to pull the trigger will see such opportunities even when there are none ( sound familiar? )

I don't know why you're getting so exited and rejoicing in this news story Atilla? There are far better ( or worse depending upon you perspective ) examples you could have chosen from.

What about the USS Vincennes, a U.S. Navy Ticonderoga class Aegis guided missile cruiser. In 1988, the ship shot down Iran Air Flight 655 over the Persian Gulf, killing all 290 civilian passengers on board, including 38 non-Iranians and 66 children.

Oh! BTW, the ship was launched 14 April 1984 which makes it 26 years old today ( Happy Birthday Vincennes arty: )

I see on the news this morning that the Pakistani army have had a similar incident and killed around 70 civilians,

I guess only idealists believe you can wage war without killing civilians.

I understand even the Taliban have had problems in the past. They've slaughtered so many pakistani Muslim civilians they've inadvertantly managed to take out the odd military target on the odd occasion.

dd

Agree with pretty much most things you say here.

I feel my psychie is disturbed by so much death and destruction for no great or little purpose.

I wonder what all those people - who died through out the European wars and more recently in the trenches and second World War, say if they were to see us all now travelling to Germany drinking beer, eating French cheese with Spanish crackers. Buying up their castles and villas for few pounds? What could not be achieved through war was achieved through peace.

All those monies spent on advertising trying to attract people on holidays were once spent on weapons trying to keep each other out.

Paradox of war and peace?

 

[bhavin]

I understand even the Taliban have had problems in the past. They've slaughtered so many pakistani Muslim civilians they've inadvertantly managed to take out the odd military target on the odd occasion. dd

Karmic Action...............
Majority of Pakistanis still love the ISI and Taliban and Osama
Majority of Pakistanis simply do not want peace

 

[bhavin]

All those monies spent on advertising trying to attract people on holidays were once spent on weapons trying to keep each other out. Paradox of war and peace?

There can never be Peace between Muslims and Indians........ Never!
Muslims are.............
well 4get it!

 

[Atilla]

There can never be Peace between Muslims and Indians........ Never!
Muslims are.............
well 4get it!

No?

Really?

Have you considered love?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8614997.stm :clover:

 

[bhavin]

No? Really?Have you considered love?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8614997.stm :clover:

LOVE............... It only works ok in text books, but not reality.
Ok check this out,

> Would we have won over Hitler with Love , no way

> Budhist, Ancient Pakistan and Afghanistan was Buddhist majority, where are they now?
they were slaughtered and converted to islam.

Buddism is probably the only religion which aggressively talks about non violence, and love

where is now

food for thought

 

[Splitlink]

No?

Really?

Have you considered love?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8614997.stm :clover:

Atilla, the human race does not survive on love. It's a great dream but an illusion.

As the human increases its population so will the gap between haves and have nots. The have nots are going to emigrate in ever increasimng number into "haves" territory which will increase the need for survival tactics.

I see no solution to this except for drastic reduction in world population growth. Unfortunately, the masses believe that wars will do that. How wrong they are. The population is growing, each year, by more than the total numbers killed in six years of WWII.

By not reducing population levels down in a civilised way we are leaving ourselves open to death by some horrible disease. Aids is an insight into this, but science is battling with that. Maybe the old will become more than the young can support, I don't know what is going to happen but we are a selfish species by nature and we are unlikely to help others unless there is something in it for us.

I'm old and am looking at this over a lifetime of historical data. Power is Might. Might is Right. The Americans and Russians have shown us and now it looks as if the Chinese are going to have a say.

 

[Atilla]

Atilla, the human race does not survive on love. It's a great dream but an illusion. Look into your heart and soul and I think you will see otherwise. There is no greater force on the planet than Love. Love is far greater than hate or greed.

As the human increases its population so will the gap between haves and have nots. The have nots are going to emigrate in ever increasimng number into "haves" territory which will increase the need for survival tactics.
My take on this is that since the beginning of time - it has always been the haves who have imposed them selves on the have nots and so enslaving, stealling and butchering those non-compliants. Sorry to state you are 180 degrees heading in the opposite direction here...

I see no solution to this except for drastic reduction in world population growth. Unfortunately, the masses believe that wars will do that. How wrong they are. The population is growing, each year, by more than the total numbers killed in six years of WWII.
Popullation growth has never been a problem before. What makes you think it is a problem now? I can't remember the statistics but it is something like less than 1-3% of the world's popullation controls 99% of its wealth and resources. Power and wealth is all consuming.

By not reducing population levels down in a civilised way we are leaving ourselves open to death by some horrible disease. Aids is an insight into this, but science is battling with that. Maybe the old will become more than the young can support, I don't know what is going to happen but we are a selfish species by nature and we are unlikely to help others unless there is something in it for us.
The West has a negative declining popullation. As for Chinese popullation growth of limiting one child per couple is already having some social issues. I reckon we should control popullations in a civilised way by putting to sleep old people who can no longer look after them selves. Instead of spending a fortune looking after incapicitated elderly people who have a very poor quality of life - that money should be spent on the young neglected generation who is the new blood of society and wealth generation.

I'm old and am looking at this over a lifetime of historical data. Power is Might. Might is Right. The Americans and Russians have shown us and now it looks as if the Chinese are going to have a say.

I beg to differ here. Might is Power. And attempting to achieve ultimate power is normally what causes one or any system to lose it imo.

All this immigration rubbish is for the simple minded folk if I may say so.

The West needs migrant labour because;

1. Declining birth rate - You could call it 'dying out' birth rate
2. Impending pension crises in 20 years with out younger working popullation
3. Cheap skilled labour - local popullation not prepared to work long hours for peanuts doing dirty jobs.

However, there are social problems caused by migrants and the lower skilled workers are more affected by migrants - who compete for low skilled work and thus the BNP gets the lower class votes coupled with a few from the Aryan race...


Bhavin - To me you are the embodiment of Hitler with what ever race or creed you belong to. If you did have the power you crave for - life with you would be pretty one dimensional and very dark indeed. It would be like only seeing black flowers with the same pugnant aroma. I very much fear and am saddened by your mind and belief system.

You can not even say a nice word about two young people who fall in love and tie the knot to make a go of it. Despite being from two opposing sides. If anything it is even more beautiful that they endure the social pressures and send a very strong and powerful message of what can be. Even if it lasts a short time it is a fine attribute to the power of love. We should all revel and learn from it. I hope it lasts longer than your life time so you can not say I told you so and hopefully take something with you to the other side to tell all the other wretched souls who died fighting each other...

That would truly be Yin-Yang tribute to harmony and balance...

 

[maiden22]

"I reckon we should control popullations in a civilised way by putting to sleep old people who can no longer look after them selves. Instead of spending a fortune looking after incapicitated elderly people who have a very poor quality of life - that money should be spent on the young neglected generation who is the new blood of society and wealth generation. "

One of the most extraordinary and appalling things I have ever read. I don't know which is more remarkable - the evil of your first suggestion or the idiocy of your second.

Nonetheless, I hope that when you are old and a burden on others you are treated with the compassion that you so clearly do not have and do not merit.

Utterly disgusting.

 

[Atilla]

"I reckon we should control popullations in a civilised way by putting to sleep old people who can no longer look after them selves. Instead of spending a fortune looking after incapicitated elderly people who have a very poor quality of life - that money should be spent on the young neglected generation who is the new blood of society and wealth generation. "

One of the most extraordinary and appalling things I have ever read. I don't know which is more remarkable - the evil of your first suggestion or the idiocy of your second.

Nonetheless, I hope that when you are old and a burden on others you are treated with the compassion that you so clearly do not have and do not merit.

Utterly disgusting.

When I am old and unable to look after my self I do not wish to subject my burdens to any one else. The compassion I would ask for is that I am allowed to gracefully end it all - thank you very much.

I just think it is very sad seeing old people in homes sitting in a vegatation state being looked after and fed with no loved ones visiting or perhaps visiting once a while.

Society has gone crazy on long life when the quality of that life is very poor indeed. Even when persons concerned do want to end their suffering there is all this euthanasia nonsense that government decides whether you can die or not. How pathetic is that?

There is nothing evil or stupid with the suggestion. As health burden becomes too great with longevity - health service & pension payments not met, there will be a certain re-allocation of resources. Inevitable! Numbers do not add up and will go even more askew in the next 20 years. With an aging popullation watch this space!!!

Moreover, some of these old people feel their property should be left to their children whilst the state carries their burden free on the NHS.

I reckon when you get to a point where you become immobile, can not eat, bath or dress your self - then the mind surely suffers entrapped by a physical shell. I've told my Mrs to turn off my lights if I ever get to that state. Good stiff drink with a hand full of aspirins and eternal restfull sleep... Bliss...

 

[Splitlink]

"I reckon we should control popullations in a civilised way by putting to sleep old people who can no longer look after them selves. Instead of spending a fortune looking after incapicitated elderly people who have a very poor quality of life - that money should be spent on the young neglected generation who is the new blood of society and wealth generation. "

One of the most extraordinary and appalling things I have ever read. I don't know which is more remarkable - the evil of your first suggestion or the idiocy of your second.

Nonetheless, I hope that when you are old and a burden on others you are treated with the compassion that you so clearly do not have and do not merit.

Utterly disgusting.

I think that Atilla is writing about those poor souls who are one step away from vegetation, or who are being kept alive while they are in severe pain.

I know that I do not want to leave this earth while I am able to think rationally so are we asking the state to do it for us? I am 78, so do not speak with the same cold logic as a younger man would. I'm still up at 0530, listening to the news and entering the gym at 0700, so one has to be careful in their choice of subjects. Who is going to be the judge?

This is one of the problems that we are going to have to face with the increasing population that we are experiencing. 6 billion at the turn of the century, 9 billion in 2050, the bulk of whom are elderly. What will happen by the turn of the next century? What will the population be? Nature will force the solution of this problem upon us