Mechanical Trading possible ?

[mechanicaldaytrader]

All our problems are solved!

...good points Hotch...

The systems that i have seen work and some including the one i trade work very well are all extremely simple and easy to understand, they make sense and are often no more than a simple entry set up that's applied with good risk management, all the trader has to do is follow a simple set of rules and take each trade.

Wow! We should all just pack up and go home, all our problems are solved! Maybe Hammer61 can call up all the banks, hedge funds and derivatives traders that have lost trillions of dollars in the past 18 months because they didn't do that "simple entry" and "all the trader has to do is follow a simple set of rules and take each trade".

Please give me their phone #, I'm all ears!!

The Mechanical Day Trader

 

[Hammer61]

Mechanicaldaytrader

Not sure why the sarcasm?

What is your definition of a mechanical trading system ?, isn’t it a way to trade that’s based on a set of rules that the trader follows, takes the emotion and guesswork out of trading, ive just added that I think this should be as simple as possible.

Do you want to tell us what you think it is?, I always keep an open mind about all areas of trading and different methods, opinions and approaches, we all have a different perspective on this but not sure why you try and ridicule and mock me for expressing what I think a mechanical trading system should be, sure disagree and I have no problem with that, often we all learn something from a constructive and factual based discussion on differing opinions and views.

I’m not hear claiming to be smarter or better than any other trader/bank/hedge fund, just answering a question as to if its possible to develop and trade a mechanical trading system, I think it is.

Posts such as yours in reply to me serve no purpose.

 

[Chorlton]

...good points Hotch...



Wow! We should all just pack up and go home, all our problems are solved! Maybe Hammer61 can call up all the banks, hedge funds and derivatives traders that have lost trillions of dollars in the past 18 months because they didn't do that "simple entry" and "all the trader has to do is follow a simple set of rules and take each trade".

Please give me their phone #, I'm all ears!!

The Mechanical Day Trader

MDTrader,

To be fair to Hammer, his underlying point is valid IMO. IMO Having a complicated Entry / Set-Up does not automatically guarantee a better outcome than say a more simpler entry. Once in the trade, how one manages the position has more weight on the outcome than just the set-up itself. I would suggest that its "how you manage the trade" plus the Money Management employed that makes the money more so than the Entry. This is not to say that every simple entry idea will work In addition, trying to find new ideas for entry which are not common to everyone is definately the way to go unless one wants to fade set-ups.

Look at the Turtles System. The Entry condition was in no way complicated. Yet, the strategy was very profitable. IMO The new approach to position sizing (at that time anyway!!!) helped to deliver such good results at that time.

There is also an argument that the simpler the entry condition the more likely it is to perform on multiple Mrkts. Personally, I don't subscribe to that view but I know a lot do......

 

[Hammer61]

MDTrader,

To be fair to Hammer, his underlying point is valid IMO. IMO Having a complicated Entry / Set-Up does not automatically guarantee a better outcome than say a more simpler entry

Fair enough, point taken and yes maybe the statement “simple entry” does sound a bit naïve.

My post should have stated that in my opinion a mechanical trading system comes down to following a simple set of rules ONE of which is a "simple enrty" when your system trggers.

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

Originally Posted by Hammer61 View Post

The systems that i have seen work and some including the one i trade work very well are all extremely simple and easy to understand

 

[Hammer61]

Originally Posted by Hammer61 View Post

The systems that i have seen work and some including the one i trade work very well are all extremely simple and easy to understand

I really am struggling to get your point ?

All im saying is keep things simple, im my experience simple works, IMO the simpler a system the chances are the more robust over time it will be, on one of my previous posts I conceded that it did sound naïve by saying this came down to a simple entry, a system whoever simple or complicated comes down to key components, an entry, management of the trade once taken an an exit of the trade.

You can add in as many variables or conditions as you like, use set stops, trailing stops, profit targets or whatever you like or feel is beneficial to your system.

Maybe like my trading im simple

 

[nine]

Hes a vendor. Hes trying to keep the noise level up so that he can suck in newbies.

Nothing he says is trustworthy except in that framework.

 

[Chorlton]

Fair enough, point taken and yes maybe the statement “simple entry” does sound a bit naïve.

My post should have stated that in my opinion a mechanical trading system comes down to following a simple set of rules ONE of which is a "simple enrty" when your system trggers.

Hey, I wasn't suggesting you were naive. I actually agree with your underlying message.....

 

[Hammer61]

Hey, I wasn't suggesting you were naive. I actually agree with your underlying message.....

I never thought you were Chorlton

I was trying to understand were MT is coming from, thought maybe he had taken my statement about a simple entry as is all that's required.

nine has clarified things though

 

[zupcon]

Hes a vendor. Hes trying to keep the noise level up so that he can suck in newbies.

Well at least this one is proudly displaying his badge... its the ones without they need to watch out for

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

The systems that i have seen work and some including the one i trade work very well ....

Hammer61...I ask again,(request #2) please give us the phone numbers, web addresses etc of these systems....we all want to see these systems that "work very well"

are all extremely simple and easy to understand, ...

Once again Hammer61,(request #3) which system(s) are these..what are their names? What is their performance?

They make sense and are often no more than a simple entry set up that's applied with good risk management, all the trader has to do is follow a simple set of rules and take each trade..

REQUEST #4 to Hammer61 -- please name names, give website addresses and cite performance data of these systems !! Thanks buddy !!

Hey "NIne" (Legendary Member) - I'll be waiting to see your best day trading day ok?? Don't forget to email me your statement!!

The Mechanical Day Trader

 

[Hammer61]

Hammer61...I ask again,(request #2) please give us the phone numbers, web addresses etc of these systems....we all want to see these systems that "work very well"



Once again Hammer61,(request #3) which system(s) are these..what are their names? What is their performance?




REQUEST #4 to Hammer61 -- please name names, give website addresses and cite performance data of these systems !! Thanks buddy !!

Hey "NIne" (Legendary Member) - I'll be waiting to see your best day trading day ok?? Don't forget to email me your statement!!

The Mechanical Day Trader

My system is my system MT Im not going to give you my datails or that of my system :cheesy:

I can give you a link to an Australian trader, who both sells systems and puts out a daily trading advisory you can subscribe to, this guy is the real deal trades his own money on all his systems, BTW, its not me and nor do i know him personaly and nor do i use or subscribe to his systems but i know people who do.

His systems are all very simple and easy to follow and they work, not spectaculary most of the time but over the long run they will make money if you STICK to the RULES

Just what are you trying to prove

Anyway heres a link
Index & Forex Trading | Mechanical Trading

 

[nine]

MDT ... if you were serious you would provide audited statements for the last couple of years.

Your current grandstanding is just more "suck in the newbie" bs. Seen it all before. Will see it again after you've gone or turned up as someone else once you've burnt too many under your current nick.

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

Originally Posted by Hammer61 View Post
The systems that i have seen work and some including the one i trade work very well ....

Words mean things Hammer61. When you make a statement in a Forum you need to back it up with facts or good reasoning. You have made two powerful statements above.

Regarding your statement in RED - what "systems" have you seen work?...if you don't mind..

Regarding your statement in GREEN - "some...work well" - outside of your proprietary system, what other systems are you referring to? "Some" infers more than one. Please advise.

Thanks!

The Mechanical Day Trader

 

[ymanly]

The successful trader who truly has an "edge" that took many years to develop, is a total idiot to give it or sell it. total meaning dumb. The forums are for those who are looking for basic beginner's advice. Such as trend is friend...buy dips sell rallies...begin emini trading at 9 oclock cst if u r smart....learn to read candlesticks and u will find there are about 3 or 4 major patterns that will take you to the goldmine...the 15 min chart leaves the vaunted and valued 5 min chart in the dust once you learn the candles........

 

[ymanly]

begging to see other's results indicates the beggar is a weak hand.?

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

begging to see other's results indicates the beggar is a weak hand.?

Who are you referring to Ymanly? When you make a statement, back it up..or withdraw the statement. Waiting on Hammer61 to back up his statements that he's seen multiple systems work that had simple entry exit rules, and that these same multiple systems are profitable. Put Up! I want know what systems he's referring to -- I'm even willing to click thru multiple disclosure statements to see the Tradestation hypothetical or audited results! Inquiring minds want to know!!

The Mechanical Day Trader

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

My system is my system MT Im not going to give you my datails or that of my system

...I didn't ASK for any details about your own system...I asked for "performance" data...ya'll can try to mischaracterize all you want... I am going to nail you every time...

Post your performance data of your proprietary system (PDF format?).....nobody expects trade particulars, just aggregates..thanks!

{Put up or take down your claims Hammer61}

The Mechanical Day Trader

 

[Hammer61]

Originally Posted by Hammer61 View Post
The systems that i have seen work and some including the one i trade work very well ....

Words mean things Hammer61. When you make a statement in a Forum you need to back it up with facts or good reasoning. You have made two powerful statements above.

Regarding your statement in RED - what "systems" have you seen work?...if you don't mind..

Regarding your statement in GREEN - "some...work well" - outside of your proprietary system, what other systems are you referring to? "Some" infers more than one. Please advise.

Thanks!

The Mechanical Day Trader

We could go round and round in circles here

At the end of the day MDT, this is a forum about trading now you can choose to believe whats posted or you don't, frankly i don't care what you believe or don't, i expressed an opinion and said i knew of simple systems that worked and i do including the ones i trade, they are not available commercially and the ones i have come up with are with me and me alone, i did however post a link to a guy who does trade simple systems.

Now i could post Tradestation strategy reports that look great for a simple breakout system on end of day data but that wouldn't really prove anything as i could of had "bouncing ticks" left at the default 10 setting, you use TS so im guessing you know what im talking about.

Now you say you trade sometimes hundreds of contracts and maybe you do, again i don't really care, this thread is about can you make money and is trading mechanically possible, i think we both agree you can.

Lastly i would say to anyone reading this thread, keep an open mind and don't believe everything you see posted, do your own research and backtesting if you want to trade mechanicaly.

 

[mechanicaldaytrader]

We could go round and round in circles here

At the end of the day MDT, this is a forum about trading now you can choose to believe whats posted or you don't, frankly i don't care what you believe or don't, i expressed an opinion and said i knew of simple systems that worked and i do including the ones i trade, they are not available commercially and the ones i have come up with are with me and me alone, i did however post a link to a guy who does trade simple systems.

Now i could post Tradestation strategy reports that look great for a simple breakout system on end of day data but that wouldn't really prove anything as i could of had "bouncing ticks" left at the default 10 setting, you use TS so im guessing you know what im talking about.

So, in short, you are unable to provide first hand information of ANY mechanical system that features simple trading rules and makes money and it is verified by a 3rd party.

That is ENTIRELY my point. They don't exist - if they do, no one has seen them and can verify them.

Now, pay attention to I say next, and DON'T ANYONE MIS-CHARACTERIZE what I am about to say --

There is NO 100% MECHANICAL SYSTEM that trades INTRADAY in the futures market that has ROBUST trading results that can be backtested/proven.

I define the term "ROBUST" as netting (after slippage & commissions) 100% of daytrading margin per week, every week. No weekly drawdowns are permitted. The thing works every week or it's not really catching the overbought and oversold conditions properly. I've written several Tradestation Systems, all intraday, none of them worked in all Bull and Bear markets - they all had their blind spots.

>>> if there is -- (and I sure as heck would be happy for someone if they created it) post the aggregate trading results on this thread....otherwise come to the conclusion this animal doesn't exist.

I add the caveat that IF the system uses 'market orders' for entry, any test results would be invalid. The entry must be via limit order and cannot be filled on the same bar as the signal. The exit can be at the "close" of some future bar.

There it is...I've thrown down the gauntlet --- SHOW ME!

The Point Is -- using a 90% mechanical methodology is the only alternative for ROBUST trading results intraday.

I rest my case.

The Mechanical Day Trader