Making Money Trading
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nice one Zishor,it would have scared me off for sure!!me ... and I had my fingers three times very close to the bail out button. I saw everything that went against me but somehow I stayed in all the timeLive trades (even it was just 40€ I risked) gives you the whole portion of psychology
edit:typos
are you still in?managed to get a few pips myself!!
yes I am still in. My main problem is that I bail out to early when I am in profit. So I ususally have < 1R wins. This is the main cause that I have a negative R rate at the moment. Now I try to stay as long in trades as I can like TD said before in this thread
hi there zishor,im still in myself,and im not sure how to manage thing from here either.
my trade is only a demo trade but here is my take on the charts,(4hour,1hour)
whats your take on this??
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superspurs
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superspurs
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superspurs
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9740 and i might have 10p on it:whistling
pontebagno
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Many Thanks
Hi,
I'm new on this thread, new to this site and relatively new to trading.
This is surely a "most excellent thread !"
I have finally read all 232 pages of its postings
A quick acknowledgement to all of who have posted.
A huge debt & a very, very big thank you to Trader_Dante for patiently,
clearly and methodically outlining his & J16's PinBar confluence Reversal trades.
I'd also like to acknowledge firewalker99 & MP's contributions
and, earlier on, the questions and postings of ForexBee which served me as a good source of examples on which to practice pinBar spotting / Fib retracement plotting. and which also successfully triggered a lot of further explanatory comment from TD.
Finally, a thank you to lurkerlurker for his posts: because they really brought home to me the need for PATIENCE - both in staying out of a trade until it is a confirmed quality opportunity and for sticking with a method.
I'm Spread Bet trading on the H1 and Daily timeframes.... I'm currently finding it difficult to scan the H1 markets quickly enough to spot opportunities: ... in time.
Perhaps I'm just not yet experienced enough in spotting PinBars with confluence at the right hand side of the chart.
best regards,
-- PB
Hi,
I'm new on this thread, new to this site and relatively new to trading.
This is surely a "most excellent thread !"
I have finally read all 232 pages of its postings
A quick acknowledgement to all of who have posted.
A huge debt & a very, very big thank you to Trader_Dante for patiently,
clearly and methodically outlining his & J16's PinBar confluence Reversal trades.
I'd also like to acknowledge firewalker99 & MP's contributions
and, earlier on, the questions and postings of ForexBee which served me as a good source of examples on which to practice pinBar spotting / Fib retracement plotting. and which also successfully triggered a lot of further explanatory comment from TD.
Finally, a thank you to lurkerlurker for his posts: because they really brought home to me the need for PATIENCE - both in staying out of a trade until it is a confirmed quality opportunity and for sticking with a method.
I'm Spread Bet trading on the H1 and Daily timeframes.... I'm currently finding it difficult to scan the H1 markets quickly enough to spot opportunities: ... in time.
Perhaps I'm just not yet experienced enough in spotting PinBars with confluence at the right hand side of the chart.
best regards,
-- PB
trader_dante
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PB, if you have already put in all your TLs, S/R pivots and Key Fibs then all you need to do is open a chart and look for a pin bar, inside bar etc
Most people do it the other way round: That is to say, they open the charts and look for a pin bar and then when they see a good one they try and "fit" the TLs, S/R pivots and Key fibs too it.
This is very dangerous and is likely one of the reasons for lack of success in this method.
rawrschach
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So would uyou draw your fibs in from the most recent swing high/low on the TF you are trading, or from a more 'global' high/low on a higher TF?
trader_dante
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I use the swing highs and lows on the daily TF.
trader_dante
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Since I have previously explained some of the things that consistently profitable traders DO, I thought I would now examine the most common mistakes that I see traders make day in, day out.
Most of us make these same mistakes in our trading. DO NOT take comfort from this because you are aware others do it and it is therefore natural. Be worried. The fact that others, including professional traders, make these mistakes time and time again, means they are hard to overcome.
WORK AT BEATING THEM.
These are some of the things that traders that are unable to make money consistently are doing:
Trading without a plan
If you want to be consistently profitable you should have a detailed plan that covers everything from finding the setup, to entering, exiting and managing your risk. I've talked to a lot of traders who tell me: "I buy or sell the level", or "when the news comes out, I hit it". If you think this is a plan, you don't have one. Simple.
Lack of self-control
Having a plan is one thing. Having the self-control to follow it is another. I've seen good traders with detailed, written plans lose their discipline when they are in a trade. Today I sat with someone that got in a trade with a 10 tick target. This was part of their plan. Either the stop or the target gets hit. However, after entering the trade, the market fell and came within one tick of their stop before moving up. As it came back to breakeven, they moved their target right down to just a few ticks in profit considering that "something was wrong" and attempting to exit early. Then, as the market rose, they moved it back up out of the way to the initial 10 ticks up. The market faltered and headed lower and once again the target came down. In other words, the trader "chased" the price with the target. Eventually, this indecision and inability to follow the plan led to a small loss right before the market had a significant rally upwards. This is just one way that lack of self control leads to losses. There are many others. Emotional self-control is the hardest part of trading to conquer but unless you do, your chances of success are limited.
Trading your P&L
We've all done it and it's detrimental to your success. The only time your P&L should come into play is when you are determining your risk and ensuring it meets your rules for risk management. If you exit a winning trade simply because you are in profit you are making a mistake. Likewise if you trade because you are down on the day and you want to make money back. This is revenge trading. Consistently profitable traders DO NOT do it.
Trading with tight stops
I see traders trying to make money with 2 point stops in the FTSE. They place these tight stops simply because they want to reduce their risk. One girl I know trades with a 2 point stop in the FTSE and I hear her frequently say: "Right after I was stopped out the market went my way..." Remember: the market doesn't care about 1, 2 or 4 tick stops - the AMOUNT means nothing. What it DOES care about is previous bar highs, bar lows, support, resistance, trend lines etc. Place your stop where you are wrong on the trade idea not simply where you lose an "acceptably small" amount of money.
Taking profit too quickly
I am convinced this is the hardest thing to do in trading. I sat with a trader a few days ago that was down for the day trading the FTSE. The market had moved considerably lower throughout the day and she had been on the short side of the market 9 out of 12 times and yet was losing money. This is because every trade that went 1 or 2 ticks into profit she was already looking for a reason to get out. Some don't exit at market, they simply use the security of a trailing stop and smother the trade by getting right up close so that the first time the market retraces a few ticks they are gone. Give a trade a chance to work. Likewise, if it is moving in your favour, give it a chance to pause and catch its breath. Holding is extremely difficult but it is the KEY to successful trading whether you are a scalper or a position trader. One good win can pay for all your losses. I see this happen to good traders all the time.
Not giving something a chance to work
If you are going to try a system give it a chance to work. If you try something new and it fails to make money after three days and you quit and start looking for the next new thing, you are not giving it a proper chance. If you follow a system, a strategy or are trying out a timeframe, make a statistically significant number of trades and analyse them. Make sure you are trading the setups correctly. This is far more likely to ensure your success than simply switching to something else.
Most of us make these same mistakes in our trading. DO NOT take comfort from this because you are aware others do it and it is therefore natural. Be worried. The fact that others, including professional traders, make these mistakes time and time again, means they are hard to overcome.
WORK AT BEATING THEM.
These are some of the things that traders that are unable to make money consistently are doing:
Trading without a plan
If you want to be consistently profitable you should have a detailed plan that covers everything from finding the setup, to entering, exiting and managing your risk. I've talked to a lot of traders who tell me: "I buy or sell the level", or "when the news comes out, I hit it". If you think this is a plan, you don't have one. Simple.
Lack of self-control
Having a plan is one thing. Having the self-control to follow it is another. I've seen good traders with detailed, written plans lose their discipline when they are in a trade. Today I sat with someone that got in a trade with a 10 tick target. This was part of their plan. Either the stop or the target gets hit. However, after entering the trade, the market fell and came within one tick of their stop before moving up. As it came back to breakeven, they moved their target right down to just a few ticks in profit considering that "something was wrong" and attempting to exit early. Then, as the market rose, they moved it back up out of the way to the initial 10 ticks up. The market faltered and headed lower and once again the target came down. In other words, the trader "chased" the price with the target. Eventually, this indecision and inability to follow the plan led to a small loss right before the market had a significant rally upwards. This is just one way that lack of self control leads to losses. There are many others. Emotional self-control is the hardest part of trading to conquer but unless you do, your chances of success are limited.
Trading your P&L
We've all done it and it's detrimental to your success. The only time your P&L should come into play is when you are determining your risk and ensuring it meets your rules for risk management. If you exit a winning trade simply because you are in profit you are making a mistake. Likewise if you trade because you are down on the day and you want to make money back. This is revenge trading. Consistently profitable traders DO NOT do it.
Trading with tight stops
I see traders trying to make money with 2 point stops in the FTSE. They place these tight stops simply because they want to reduce their risk. One girl I know trades with a 2 point stop in the FTSE and I hear her frequently say: "Right after I was stopped out the market went my way..." Remember: the market doesn't care about 1, 2 or 4 tick stops - the AMOUNT means nothing. What it DOES care about is previous bar highs, bar lows, support, resistance, trend lines etc. Place your stop where you are wrong on the trade idea not simply where you lose an "acceptably small" amount of money.
Taking profit too quickly
I am convinced this is the hardest thing to do in trading. I sat with a trader a few days ago that was down for the day trading the FTSE. The market had moved considerably lower throughout the day and she had been on the short side of the market 9 out of 12 times and yet was losing money. This is because every trade that went 1 or 2 ticks into profit she was already looking for a reason to get out. Some don't exit at market, they simply use the security of a trailing stop and smother the trade by getting right up close so that the first time the market retraces a few ticks they are gone. Give a trade a chance to work. Likewise, if it is moving in your favour, give it a chance to pause and catch its breath. Holding is extremely difficult but it is the KEY to successful trading whether you are a scalper or a position trader. One good win can pay for all your losses. I see this happen to good traders all the time.
Not giving something a chance to work
If you are going to try a system give it a chance to work. If you try something new and it fails to make money after three days and you quit and start looking for the next new thing, you are not giving it a proper chance. If you follow a system, a strategy or are trying out a timeframe, make a statistically significant number of trades and analyse them. Make sure you are trading the setups correctly. This is far more likely to ensure your success than simply switching to something else.
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Great Post T_D! Thanks for sharing this experience. Holding really seems to be the hardest thing in trading I feel it every day. Once into profits I scan everything for bailing out ...
Anyway: What's the readership of this thread thinking about the spx dly candle yet? assuming that nothing horrible happens the next hour one could prepare a short trade.
Pro's:
good bearish pinbar at an upper trendchannel of a rising wedge (also overall bearish) + a slightly bearish divergence on the macd (5 9 3)
Con's:
1440 is rather a lesser pivot point
no obvious confluence with a fib line
Somehow tempting ... but as I try to become a good "hunter" I will follow my rule "If in doubt, stay out." on this trade.
Anyhow... 'would love to hear your comments about the spx pin bar here
Best regards from the sunny algarve
Frank
I feel it every day. Once into profits I scan everything for bailing out ...Anyway: What's the readership of this thread thinking about the spx dly candle yet? assuming that nothing horrible happens the next hour one could prepare a short trade.
Pro's:
good bearish pinbar at an upper trendchannel of a rising wedge (also overall bearish) + a slightly bearish divergence on the macd (5 9 3)
Con's:
1440 is rather a lesser pivot point
no obvious confluence with a fib line
Somehow tempting ... but as I try to become a good "hunter" I will follow my rule "If in doubt, stay out." on this trade.
Anyhow... 'would love to hear your comments about the spx pin bar here
Best regards from the sunny algarve
Frank
leave the computer!!
wealthyminds
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wow!!! Awesome thread... could see a goldmine of information here.
Thanks Dante and friends!
Thanks Dante and friends!
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