Making Money Trading

[trader_dante]

Not 1, Not 2, Not 3, but 4 fib levels lined up, + an old support level being tested from underneath. On my chart, the numbers "(1)" etc. are where I drew the fibs from, nothing to do with wave counts, and you cant see (4) as it is too far left.

Pin is not in an ideal place and theres a weak trend line just below. Was just wondering what you think of things like this TD... a not very good place (ie: nose not sticking out) but at the same time a very good place (ie: lots of confluence).

My order has been triggered. Can it get to 1.6 and then 1.55 ? spread is a bit hefty at 10 pips so it better had be able to ..... :!:

Hi 1Pipped,

In situations like that where the pin is not ideal BUT there is a good deal of evidence supporting a move, I would do one of two things:

i) Take half the position on the pin bar trigger and add another half when the market confirms your opinion e.g. you see a close and then a follow through beneath that rising TL. This is a good method but means your average entry is lower and can sometimes leave you vulnerable to any correction in price.

ii) Move my stop to just above the left eye. This is probably what I would lean towards currently.

 

[jonj]

Hi T-D,love to know your opinion on the two pinbars iv posted (from the close on friday)

also do you concider candlestick patterns when read your setups,such as inverted hammers,dojis etc??
e.g.both these bars come after long candle bodies,would you concider this as further bearish tendency?

p.s.great thread!!

 

[1Pipped]

Hi 1Pipped,

In situations like that where the pin is not ideal BUT there is a good deal of evidence supporting a move, I would do one of two things:

i) Take half the position on the pin bar trigger and add another half when the market confirms your opinion e.g. you see a close and then a follow through beneath that rising TL. This is a good method but means your average entry is lower and can sometimes leave you vulnerable to any correction in price.

ii) Move my stop to just above the left eye. This is probably what I would lean towards currently.

Thanks TD so its a case of caution being the better part of valor, I will try and move my stop down quite quickly on Sunday/Monday then. I was thinking of closing half if it gets to 1.6 and putting stop at B/E for the other half like shadowninja suggested a it back.

 

[TraderGreg]

The Pin Bar and Trends?

Hi Greg,



That's hard to answer. I use many different price action setups. I advise you begin with pin bars as they are very reliable if you take them when they many supporting factors.



Pin bars.



In my opinion, you shouldn't go into trading looking for a certain number of pips per week. You should just take good setups and let your P&L take care of itself.

Hello T_D,
I think that you are right on point here. I can see the sense in all that you have pointed out above. Great stuff...

Here are three more question that I wanted to ask as well and they are very close in nature:

A : How significant do you consider trends with this pin bar style of entering trades? I see where you draw trend lines several times but I don't recall you explaining how they factor into or influence your thinking on precisely when and where you enter a position on a chart when the other factors to consider are also good.

B : Would you take a pin at trend support or resistance but either pivots or fib supporting?

C : Would you take a position with pin bar indicating a turning point at an area of trend support or resistance but no other factor supporting the position?

Thanks in advance for your time and thinking

TG

 

[brutusdog]

T_D hows it going in the new environment mate? should think its an early start to get out there

whats the training period like? how long do they train you till you go live.

also how are you adapting to the lower time frames and the setup?

would be really interesting if you could post some screen shots of your platform and set up there.....bet theres a few more monitors than when you were at home

also have you found a preferred instrument and focusing on it or are you still casting the net far and wide!

have a good week.

 

[trader_dante]

Hi Greg,

A : How significant do you consider trends with this pin bar style of entering trades? I see where you draw trend lines several times but I don't recall you explaining how they factor into or influence your thinking on precisely when and where you enter a position on a chart when the other factors to consider are also good.

I don't consider trends to be significant at all. I have and still do take pin bars against the trend.

To answer your question on trend lines: If a pin bar occurs at a trend line then that trend line is a supporting factor. However, in general, I would like to see more supporting factors than just a TL.

B : Would you take a pin at trend support or resistance but either pivots or fib supporting?

I don't think I would. In my experience TLs are not that reliable. Sometimes they work perfectly but more often than not they fail miserably. I often find my TLs being, at least temporarily, broken. Once they are broken, they require re-drawing. This can happen several times in the course of a trend. As a result they seem to be an element of technical analysis that only work well in HINDSIGHT. Some would argue that what I have just written is the problem with ALL technical analysis. That may be true but I find that S/R pivots work very, very well.

C : Would you take a position with pin bar indicating a turning point at an area of trend support or resistance but no other factor supporting the position?

Greg, have you read this whole thread? I have done this frequently. It is something I have success. Having said that, the last two times I did on this thread, I lost money on both of them.

 

[trader_dante]

Hello brutusdog,

T_D hows it going in the new environment mate? should think its an early start to get out there

lol I'm staying with my sister during the week as she lives much closer to work than I do. It only takes me about 30 minutes to drive there from hers. I'm supposed to be there for 7am but invariably I find myself getting in around forty five minutes later than that...

whats the training period like? how long do they train you till you go live.

Training is very limited. We get brief talks on fundamental and technical analysis and are set exercises to do on both. It's more about proving that we can be profitable. Each day we post our P&L and when we feel we are ready to go live they examine our P&L and let us know what they think. We've only been posting for about 2 weeks. I expect it to be at least another 4-6 before we can demonstrate enough consistency to get real money.

also how are you adapting to the lower time frames and the setup?

Not well. I'm just not happy on the lower TFs. I also feel a little stubborn: it's taken me a long time to become profitable and I've only found consistency on the longer TFs. While I can see the advantages and the appeal of scalping the lower TFs I am of the opinion that if you find something works then you shouldn't go messing with it.

would be really interesting if you could post some screen shots of your platform and set up there.....bet theres a few more monitors than when you were at home

I'm not sure I can do that but I can tell you what its like:

We have 3 X 15" monitors.

Far left one has CQG (for charts on). We share this among 3 of us. That means that when you are using your charts no one else can control theirs. This is not actually as bad as it sounds. It's just a matter of getting used to it.

Middle monitor has TT (the trading platform) on it. It displays the ladders for the different markets, your order book and information on all taken trades plus your P&L.

Just incase anyone is confused as to what a ladder is here is a picture of a similar setup that I found on the web: http://www.vankartrading.com/images/tt.png

Ladders are on the left. Each tick is a "rung" on the ladder. The current price is in the middle. So if the GBP/USD is at 1.9950 then the next rung down is 1.9949 as that is the next tick lower and the rung above would be 1.9951. To get filled long or short, you just click next to the price.

On the far right monitor we have internet. We can have whatever we want on that screen. Some of us stream CNBC or Sky News. Some of us have the Bloomberg website or Market Watch or perhaps even their email. I personally have MT4 open with about 8 charts on it.

To the right of these 3 monitors I have my laptop. I usually run MT4 on that too so that I can look at even more charts.

Finally between myself and the person next to me is a Reuters screen with real time news.

also have you found a preferred instrument and focusing on it or are you still casting the net far and wide

We are supposed to choose an instrument and focus on it. This is very hard for me as the setups I take work on all markets and limiting myself to one will severely limit my setups. If forced too, I will probably choose the Bund as price action seems to work well on that market and I have had the most experience trading it. It's also the one market I managed to scalp successfully.

 

[brutusdog]

Hello brutusdog,



lol I'm staying with my sister during the week as she lives much closer to work than I do. It only takes me about 30 minutes to drive there from hers. I'm supposed to be there for 7am but invariably I find myself getting in around forty five minutes later than that...



Training is very limited. We get brief talks on fundamental and technical analysis and are set exercises to do on both. It's more about proving that we can be profitable. Each day we post our P&L and when we feel we are ready to go live they examine our P&L and let us know what they think. We've only been posting for about 2 weeks. I expect it to be at least another 4-6 before we can demonstrate enough consistency to get real money.



Not well. I'm just not happy on the lower TFs. I also feel a little stubborn: it's taken me a long time to become profitable and I've only found consistency on the longer TFs. While I can see the advantages and the appeal of scalping the lower TFs I am of the opinion that if you find something works then you shouldn't go messing with it.



I'm not sure I can do that but I can tell you what its like:

We have 3 X 15" monitors.

Far left one has CQG (for charts on). We share this among 3 of us. That means that when you are using your charts no one else can control theirs. This is not actually as bad as it sounds. It's just a matter of getting used to it.

Middle monitor has TT (the trading platform) on it. It displays the ladders for the different markets, your order book and information on all taken trades plus your P&L.

Just incase anyone is confused as to what a ladder is here is a picture of a similar setup that I found on the web: http://www.vankartrading.com/images/tt.png

Ladders are on the left. Each tick is a "rung" on the ladder. The current price is in the middle. So if the GBP/USD is at 1.9950 then the next rung down is 1.9949 as that is the next tick lower and the rung above would be 1.9951. To get filled long or short, you just click next to the price.

On the far right monitor we have internet. We can have whatever we want on that screen. Some of us stream CNBC or Sky News. Some of us have the Bloomberg website or Market Watch or perhaps even their email. I personally have MT4 open with about 8 charts on it.

To the right of these 3 monitors I have my laptop. I usually run MT4 on that too so that I can look at even more charts.

Finally between myself and the person next to me is a Reuters screen with real time news.



We are supposed to choose an instrument and focus on it. This is very hard for me as the setups I take work on all markets and limiting myself to one will severely limit my setups. If forced too, I will probably choose the Bund as price action seems to work well on that market and I have had the most experience trading it. It's also the one market I managed to scalp successfully.

very interesting i was thinking about that and how it would affect your trading, i was assuming you would be pushed toward 1 market and hence that would reduce your trading opportunity's considerably and hence damage your profitability. also the fact that you have worked hard to achieve a level of consistency with your method and time frames to be forced to change that must be difficult and the stubbornness fully understandable. if there is no way out of it (will they not allow overnight positions?) then the sooner you embrace it the better i guess.....

the ladder looks interesting! a world away from s/b should think that takes some getting used to as well and being able to understand / read the dom must be a whole different ball game.

 

[trader_dante]

the ladder looks interesting! a world away from s/b should think that takes some getting used to as well and being able to understand / read the dom must be a whole different ball game.

It is a whole different ball game.

It's been a great experience being on both sides of the fence.

I remember when I was sb'ing, wondering what the bid-offer spread would be when you had direct market access and now I see that on most of the markets I have access to its the minimum increment. So on Gbp/Usd futures the spread is 1 tick. FTSE futures the spread is 1/2 tick. The Bund is 1 tick, the Dax is 1 tick etc. It makes me wonder how much better the traders that make money scalping using SB companies would do if they could trade the "real" market.

 

[steveborner]

TD, I am looking in to etting in to Trading and have just read through most of this thread. Just wanted to say a huge thank you for taking the time top post this. Hopefully fully understanding with some practical examples these useful market techniques, I may be able to demonstrate some real research and awareness at interviews.

Thanks again
Steve

 

[trader_dante]

TD, I am looking in to etting in to Trading and have just read through most of this thread. Just wanted to say a huge thank you for taking the time top post this. Hopefully fully understanding with some practical examples these useful market techniques, I may be able to demonstrate some real research and awareness at interviews.

Thanks again
Steve

No probs Steve,

If you need any help or advice about trading interviews send me a PM.

Tom

 

[trader_dante]

More charts

Some more chart patterns and potential opportunities.

Chart 1: Natural Gas. The NG market has come into a KEY resistance level and has started to break out. Commodities in general are in a bull market.

Chart 2: Nasdaq. This is a clear and well defined triangle. If it breaks out to the downside, it provides a good opportunity to get on board the longer term trend.

Chart 3: Merck Co. There is a beautiful s/r pivot at $42.30. When the market gapped up and out of the range between Sep-Mar 2006, (see arrow) the market then formed new support at around $48.18. We are currently caught between those two levels but the market is trending UP into the overhead level.

Chart 4: EUR/SKK (Slovak Koruna) This is a pair not many people HAVE let alone TRADE. Still it's worth mentioning because a pin bar has just formed on the daily at long term support.

Chart 5: A close up of the pin bar.

 

[VinceStanzione]

Some more chart patterns and potential opportunities.

Chart 1: Natural Gas. The NG market has come into a KEY resistance level and has started to break out. Commodities in general are in a bull market.

Chart 2: Nasdaq. This is a clear and well defined triangle. If it breaks out to the downside, it provides a good opportunity to get on board the longer term trend.

Chart 3: Merck Co. There is a beautiful s/r pivot at $42.30. When the market gapped up and out of the range between Sep-Mar 2006, (see arrow) the market then formed new support at around $48.18. We are currently caught between those two levels but the market is trending UP into the overhead level.

Chart 4: EUR/SKK (Slovak Koruna) This is a pair not many people HAVE let alone TRADE. Still it's worth mentioning because a pin bar has just formed on the daily at long term support.

Chart 5: A close up of the pin bar.

Thanks for this T_D.

I note too, that all of the 5 charts posted are interesting price action/Support or Resesitance on the daily TF

To anyone who has followed T_D's methodology to the letter from his first post....this is exactly how you should do your TA ie on the Daily TF.

Then wait for the market to come to you - now it may be that you end up entering on the 1HR TF, due to the risk involved by entering based on price action on the daily.

However, doing your TA on the Daily is imperative.

Thanks Again T_D.

VS

 

[rathcoole_exile]

TD, I am looking in to etting in to Trading and have just read through most of this thread. Just wanted to say a huge thank you for taking the time top post this. Hopefully fully understanding with some practical examples these useful market techniques, I may be able to demonstrate some real research and awareness at interviews.

Thanks again
Steve

Steve, there's no better place for a beginner.
Read T_D's thread again.
and again.

 

[1Pipped]

Up late tonight working, got distracted by trading today when I should have been working and need to catch up... thought Ide check the thread... did any of you feel that earthquake tonight ? was fairly big was it not !!! thought house was falling down for a minute, but it didnt, just a bit wobbly for a few seconds.

 

[trader_dante]

Up late tonight working, got distracted by trading today when I should have been working and need to catch up... thought Ide check the thread... did any of you feel that earthquake tonight ? was fairly big was it not !!! thought house was falling down for a minute, but it didnt, just a bit wobbly for a few seconds.

Earthhquake?! In the UK?!

 

[Directional]

Earthhquake?! In the UK?!

5.2 on richter scale apparently!? epicentre near grimsby

 

[VinceStanzione]

Earthhquake?! In the UK?!

Anne Widdecombe fall out of bed?

 

[rathcoole_exile]

Anne Widdecombe fall out of bed?

maybe Gordon Brown dropped his wallet ?

 

[candles]

Tried a short on cable.
15 minute dogi has since formed. We'll see how i get on with this one.
entrance was 161.8% retrace