making a mint off news on trading desk

[gooseman]

ok-with you now.

 

[mp6140]

ok-with you now.

i could prob play it larger, but two lots is how we started it, so weve left it at that cause it seems to work pretty well that way, and its only meant as a little adjunct to regular trading.

i have tried it a few times before news, and it works just fine -- in fact, we have the room to increase the size pretty well, because of the nature of price movement on news and because of the rather large range that GU goes thru

mp

 

[MrGecko]

I personally preferred trading my own account from home.

The main disadvantages that I have found with trading at a prop firm are the shorter TF mentality that you get. It has taken me a very long time - in fact many years - to build the patience and discipline to wait for the moments when I have a high probability of winning before I trade.

At a prop firm you are surrounded by the buzz and activity of shorter TF trading. I am not saying that everyone here trades short term but it is certainly true that the MAJORITY too.

I am personally not a scalper. I don't trade off the bid-offer, I don't care about what is happening on the 1m, 3m, 5m charts but that's what I have found myself thrown into: "Cut risk - keep stops tight. It's better to take 5 ticks 10 times than 50 ticks once etc."

At the same time I am encouraged to concentrate on one market rather than a group which is what I used to do. This has affected my bottom line severely because it could be days and sometimes weeks before I get a setup on one market and then the pressure to TRADE for the sake of TRADING occurs. The traders around me appear dumbfounded if I say that I've done 1 round trip in a day and even that feels way too much for me.

Then you've got the news. I always made money by IGNORING the news. But here, 1 minute before the figure its heart hammering in your chest time, fully loaded, ready to go - there's the figure - REACT, QUICK...the news is good, the markets going up...hit the bid with a 5 lot...now it's turned and I'm offside...People shouting and cursing. Sometimes I wonder why they do it. I know it's not for me...

So, on the whole, joining a firm has been detrimental to my trading so far.

So why do I stay? Because I don't have the capitalisation to MAKE A LIVING trading from home. Not yet. To do that without any pressure that affects your trading requires a huge deal of capital. It would take tens of thousands of pounds to be able to trade once or twice a week and still make enough to put you on an even keel with most 30 year olds...

The other main advantage of an office for me is that it has the social environment - I found trading from home very lonely and would go so far as to say it made me depressed. Sitting at home all day with no one to talk to when you are a naturally social person is something I found very, very hard.

TD,

Have you tried trading other contracts whilst keeping your longer TF trades on the table?

Say, for example, you are watching 30 contracts on hourlies and dailies for setups you like (we've all read your thread so no need to go into detail). I guess only 5 of those might have something developing at any one time, with the other 25 "parked" until something seems to be developing; Whilst keeping an eye on those 5 contracts (flicking throught the 25 other charts each hour might only take 5 mins), wouldn't it be possible to learn how to trade a "slow" contract on a shorter TF with a cursory glance at the 5 other charts every 10 mins or so?

I've no idea what a prop environment is like- and have yet to master trading the orderbook - but i imagine that it would be the ideal place to learn how to trade the schatz (as an example of a "slow" contract, in comparison to the bund et al). It would certainly keep your concentration on the markets, involve you more with the rest of the floor, and don't write off the possibility that you could supplement your profits from a tick here and there on the schatz.

Maybe you could even go as far as to say "if it doesn't cost me anything, keeps the prop firm happy with more comms, and keeps me involved with the rest of the floor, its well worth it". As I said, i have no experience of how arcades really work, but as long as you don't co*k up you other trades, why not?

Bottom line is you have proven to yourself and others that you can be a profitable trader, with a wealth of experience and knowledge to boot. There are grads and trainees that are in the same "schatz boat" as you, without the ability to identify - nevermind profit from - setups on the longer TF's, and they can manage it! You will be leaps and bounds ahead of other traders learning to trade from the orderbook, with the added advantage that you can choose to trade around the news and not get yourself in a fluster. Need the two styles of trading be mutually exclusive?



:clover:

 

[gamma]

on Friday 11Apr I was short bonds just before GE announced their much worse than expected earnings. I was on a trading floor and knew this news was due out so I pulled all my orders. As I watched my news screen I saw the results and immediately coverred my position within 3 ticks. Two more ticks later I was long.
The point here is that technically there was nothing wrong with being short as I was on-side and loooking at new lows with possibility of stops sending us lower. The reality was that the NEWS instantaneously changed everything and if I had been at home trading I think I would have lost a mint instead of making it.
I post this so that some of you home traders who baulk at costs of trading fom office and make excuses to skimp, will eventually realise thats a false economy. Because of my trading environment I paid for the equivalent of about 4 years desk fees yesterday because I trade in Professional Environment

Going back to the original post and getting up to the second news
I have a feed from CMC/deal4free and get news updates as soon as they are released I just got the UK CPI DATA at exactly 9:30 the time it was released,
Forgive me for asking but do traders who pay for news releases get it any earlier
I cannot for the life of me see why one pays for news releases please explain.

 

[trader_dante]

Have you tried trading other contracts whilst keeping your longer TF trades on the table?

Bottom line is they won't let you trade more than one market at least not for a long while and even then your allowances are very limited. There is no way I can get access to anywhere near the number of markets I looked at before...

Still, their loss!

 

[Trader333]

I just got the UK CPI DATA at exactly 9:30 the time it was released,

How many seconds past 9.30am did you get this as even 10 seconds can be too long ?


Paul

 

[grantx]

Police,

Surely it would have been better to be flat going into the news? The news itself isn't important but the market reaction. Knowing the release time is sufficient.

Gamma,

All price feeds get announcements at the same time and release them at the same time (this is a pre-condition).

Grant.

 

[gooseman]

Depends on the probability of the outcomes I guess. This was alluded to on another thread but sometimes if you're holding a position and there is a high/low probability of a certain outcome (for example interest rate decisions) then you can risk alot for a few ticks. Depends on your appetite for risk/foolishness I guess.

Certainly some providers are let's say more accurate than others. The danger of trading non-premium data streams is that there is likely to be a delay and if you;re trading for a few ticks that could be the difference between making and losing shed loads.

I think there is one US indicator which you can pay for and get it 10 mins before the market but it is a private survey and not a massive market mover.

 

[gamma]

How many seconds past 9.30am did you get this as even 10 seconds can be too long ?


Paul

So not only do you need a quick analytical brain
but also super fast fingers.
I better get down to the Arcade to learn some of those computer games that kids are so good at before I even attempt to trade news.

On second thoughts forget it I always feel like a complete idiot when I try any of my nephews computer games and this little 9 year old goes
" buts its so easy unc"

 

[gooseman]

i now guys who are consistently the fastest on the exchange and you're talking within a second easily.

 

[mp6140]

mp -- loves it when a plan comes together

while you discuss whether or not and when to get into a news trade, did you notice the prior price movement ? Since i was in the trade hours ago, that makes me faster than the fastest gun in town ! (LOL)

Im blue in the face from talking about it, but it sure does work and tell you which way the market is gonna move.

all i ever ask, since i GIVE this information away, is you LOOK first and be negative later !

its just all so simple !

mp

 

[gooseman]

did that post just get chopped?

 

[arabianights]

I think there is one US indicator which you can pay for and get it 10 mins before the market but it is a private survey and not a massive market mover.

Redbook?

 

[gooseman]

Yeah-that's the one. Good call Arab.

 

[TheBramble]

while you discuss whether or not and when to get into a news trade, did you notice the prior price movement ? Since i was in the trade hours ago, that makes me faster than the fastest gun in town ! (LOL)

Im blue in the face from talking about it, but it sure does work and tell you which way the market is gonna move.

all i ever ask, since i GIVE this information away, is you LOOK first and be negative later !

its just all so simple !

That's the thing mp, too simple.

What might be even more useful to some is for you to give a specific example ahead of time. There's so much news coming out most days I imagine some folk get over-burdened with watching too many pairs.

If you focus on past lead-ups to news and price action and show them how it develops and gets pulled up (or down) to where they want it so forth, you'll be accused of cherry picking.

So, if you want to really hit home to those stragglers what it is you're suggesting they look at, there's nothing quite like one that's about to start it's gyrations and follow it through to its reasonably obvious conclusion. Just a thought.

 

[black bear]

ye and one market to ...we can wait

That's the thing mp, too simple.

What might be even more useful to some is for you to give a specific example ahead of time. There's so much news coming out most days I imagine some folk get over-burdened with watching too many pairs.

If you focus on past lead-ups to news and price action and show them how it develops and gets pulled up (or down) to where they want it so forth, you'll be accused of cherry picking.

So, if you want to really hit home to those stragglers what it is you're suggesting they look at, there's nothing quite like one that's about to start it's gyrations and follow it through to its reasonably obvious conclusion. Just a thought.

Good post

thoughts coming up to the news event how plan changes etc, where you see R or S in the longer tf

not just a load of hyperthetical wind

is that spelt ok

latter

 

[black bear]

o and for record straight

you mis quoted me the other day

I have never said I need any help trading the News, or trading full stop. I do ok for a weedhopper and do not trade the News that much different to what your winding on about mp, thats why I have given you the odd reppppppy pt

 

[mp6140]

MP -- it sure aint worth the effort

did that post just get chopped?

if youre talking about my posts goose, a few have been deleted by Lightning --- Ive pm'd him a bunch of times, but hes got a bug up his butt about me, and while i put forth charts and advice, he removes them as fast as i post, BUT STILL REFUSES TO DEAL WITH ME PERSONALLY !

TD -- remember that my post was from yesterday around 9 ish, and my posts prior to that called for a short, as the mm's invariably give away what they will be doing because THEY want to have the rally that they sell into, and then go short and the price action monday and tuesday tells all and looks to me like we need to hit strong resist, and then watch the price retreat again !

but hey, ask everyone else cause im sick of trying to help, to generate a new way of looking at the market which can be added to ANY system or any timeframe AND its just getting to be not worth it.

so when we have vendors on this site who are also "advisors" and who invite newbs to pm them for "MORE ASSISTANCE", I personally wonder what that "advice" may be ?
When Mods align themselves with "guru's" who preach the same old same old "methods" from years and years ago that have been proven to only deliver "decent" results and refuse to allow others (is it because im a yank ?) to publish THEIR ideas, then I start to wonder who is running this site and if they are watching whats happening ?

I mention a relatively unimportant "hedge" trade that i make every day, a few times a day that returns close to 2K pounds a day, and its DELETED ! 2K pounds a day may not be much in this present world, but for a "throw away" trade, Ill take it every day !

Lightning has gotten to me, and im a man who believes in fair play and honesty, and Im beginning to see a concerted effort (NINE VERY MUCH EXCLUDED) to silence me cause im stepping on the "great guru veterens toes !"

Ill just go back to trading -- I love it, i do it fairly well, and i do it as a TRADER, and not someone BETTING on this or that small move, that i repeat 1000 times a day --- I plot, I strategize and I wait for my trades and for them to come home and while i would have loved to teach how I do it, seems those with systems to sell and axes to grind dont want that info running around.

crap

mp

 

[mp6140]

That's the thing mp, too simple.

What might be even more useful to some is for you to give a specific example ahead of time. There's so much news coming out most days I imagine some folk get over-burdened with watching too many pairs.

Bramble, I have delivered fishing rods to everyone so that I dont have to give them a fish --- i tell them to watch the LRC which will tell them everything I KNOW, and if they do so, they will know whats happening in advance.

If you focus on past lead-ups to news and price action and show them how it develops and gets pulled up (or down) to where they want it so forth, you'll be accused of cherry picking.

I dont know what "cherry picking" means, aside from taking the best and leaving the rest !

I posted about GU either sunday or early monday or BOTH so that WAS my heads up, but it was PROBABLY DELETED BY "WHATS HIS NAME", THE MODERATOR ! (NOT nine)

just look at GU starting last week and leading up to this weeks news and as far as HOW MUCH NEWS IS DELIVERED, let them find ONE currency and play that exclusively, although i wouldnt recommend GU as a learning experience ---- I TOLD EVERYONE TO LOOK AT AN H1 CHART FOR THE SMOOTHEST MOVING CURRENCY, AND THEN TO TRADE THAT AND BE AWARE OF THE TIMES THE CURRENCIES REVERSE PRICE MOVEMENT (BUT RARELY TREND) and to notice that one should NOT take counter trades on the first day of a large momentum move. Ive told people a "run" usually lasts 2.5 days, AND IM GETTING FRIGGEN TIRED OF SAYING IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

I know you guys across the pond have decent schools, at least decent enough to read and comprehend --- so why doesnt someone besides Grim and a few others prove me right about your educations ?

So, if you want to really hit home to those stragglers what it is you're suggesting they look at, there's nothing quite like one that's about to start it's gyrations and follow it through to its reasonably obvious conclusion. Just a thought.

Once she starts shaking and wiggling, I get interested also and I keep the wolf from the door by TRADING, and not by publishing "how to do it" manuals ---- ALL I EVER SAY IS TO READ WHAT I SAID AND THEN WATCH THE MARKET --- if one read what i said, and then followed GU last and this week, ANYONE would have been ready to trade it correctly, and if you CANT then the title "trader" is not to be worn !

When i came up with my "equity system" I did EXACTLY WHAT YOU ADVISED ABOVE, but I had to stop trading for close to 3 months to gather the screen shots, write the copy and edit the danged thing ---- Im a trader and not a writer and while i may do that ONCE in my life, a second time for something i dont even charge for is much too much an undertaking at my age !

JUST READ WHAT IVE SAID, WATCH A CHART ---- if I know how to do it, IT AINT BRAIN SURGERY !

And one last thing --- WHATEVER you read or hear about WHY the market is doing this or that is usually pure BS --- the media HAS to say something, and to keep up an endless patter on the tube, but if you just watch the LRC, you dont need analysts and guru's cause youll HAVE YOURSELF, A ONE PERSON EXPERT TRADING TEAM !

enjoy and trade well with experience

mp

 

[mp6140]

o and for record straight

you mis quoted me the other day

I have never said I need any help trading the News, or trading full stop. I do ok for a weedhopper and do not trade the News that much different to what your winding on about mp, thats why I have given you the odd reppppppy pt

==================================================================

as usual bear, I dont understand whatever that language is youre posting in !

and btw, "weedhopper" is a joke i use often, and not a put down.

I guess i have to learn more "limey" and you need to learn more "yank"

mp