Looking for a Mentor - NYSE / Nasdaq Stock Trader - Day or Swing Trading

I for one know Mr Charts, though not specifically trained by him, he is a very good teacher, one of the best and gives the student specific instructions of set ups, state of mind, goals and of course after sales support. I have nothing but praise for him for the contribution he gives to these boards and I do not wish for him to driven away again.

If the student doesn't follow his rules or the style does not suit them at the end of the day, then that is not the teachers fault and therefore I think a refund is a bit optimistic, aye JohnBlake?
 
PitBull said:
I for one know Mr Charts, though not specifically trained by him, he is a very good teacher, one of the best and gives the student specific instructions of set ups, state of mind, goals and of course after sales support. I have nothing but praise for him for the contribution he gives to these boards and I do not wish for him to driven away again.

If the student doesn't follow his rules or the style does not suit them at the end of the day, then that is not the teachers fault and therefore I think a refund is a bit optimistic, aye JohnBlake?

I concur with PitBull and want to emphasise the point that a refund would only be applicable if Mr. Charts failed to do what he said he would do when he agreed to train TraderAli, namely to teach how he trades. This is very different from teaching someone how to find and develop a style of trading that's suitable for them. Mr. Charts doesn't do this. If TraderAli can honestly say that he doesn't have a clear insight into the trading methodology utilised by Mr. C', then he might have grounds for complaint. However, if having had the training he discovers that Mr. C's style isn't suitable for him, that's unfortunate but it isn't actually Mr.C's fault and he can not be held responsible. No trainer or coach in the world is going to promise to make a student successful, that responsibility always has - and always will - rest solely upon the shoulders of the trainee.
Tim.
 
Although I have limited knowledge about Mr Charts except I am aware that he day trades US equities and in addition to daytrading provides a service for which he charges a fee for in return. I have to say, reading some of these posts, and other threads around the same subject previously, I do wonder why he does bother to provide such a service, when he charges only the equivalent to what he earns through trading and when you see what some post ..........as some posters/postings seem very quick to judge him in a negative light, without having much personal knowledge at all.

I agree with Lee and Tim.
 
Does the coach have awareness of Dick Turpin? No? Then you've been robbed.Or have we?

vcir said:
I think the main problem is to find out which of these services are of value.. "The wise man produces, the unwise writes books".. I haven't met many competent traders with the time and patience to colaborate in the formation of aspiring traders... although there are some exceptions..

And the point is, as you stated quite well, how can you tell the difference?

Is it just a matter of luck? I was lucky to find a good teacher.. I think

Have a great weekend

Very few would want to create clones of traders being able to trade unless of course their personal need to help others progress is a challenge or an awakening of sorts or even a next step in receiving greater rewards or just the ultimate expression of their inner true suited life calling to help others.

How could a person know the difference you mentioned. This is an area which draws a lot of heat as there seems to be market practioners using various methods to get the job done.

So whats the job to be done? The objectives, is it to learn to trade, or evolving to being able to manage self control whilst using a statistical based method ,that ,by becoming expert with self control enables the user to make profits over a number of trials by being able to instantly execute trades based on the method which doesnt or isnt perhaps (because the traders who want to learn to trade will evolve to know what and when to do based on what trading is about and will likely ,I suggest ,NOT use a statistical based method ,but use one based on trading value (shaft them here) in an auction based market,fluid , dynamic ,yet underpinned by the same non physical mechanical concepts ,that make Dick Turpin look like a giver beyond Mother Teresa's standards. ) based on market speculation. (wow fat double brackets filled,can we use brackets within brackets, Neil can you have a look please?,ta. )


So we have traders who want to student the market and others who want to get a method to make some money without regard or lack of personal ambition (which is fine,if thats what they want) to have a greater insight,understanding or drive of continually working towards knowing whats happening in front of them. Betting your money when ol Dick Turpin is about to unholster his flintlock and utter the correct words to be using ,which is "Stand and deliver"

So the difference again, Dick Turpin will know when the carriage is approaching, he'll know when/where to stop it etc. now you are either outside the carriage,watching its frame rock and bump up and down ,wheels hissing through wet muddied paths, thundering hoof's etc with the intent of robbing it (quite fairly of course :) ) or you are inside it looking out , thinking making good time, pleasant journey, then.... shudder ,screech, " I say...... my god "

"Stand and deliver"


Now does the coach approach trading like Dick ? O.k. does the coach if thats too crude a concept , does the coach,mentor,trainer see dick turpin & the carriages, etc.

We have to each ask ourselves and we may not even think like this for the longest of time, err for a while anyways :) Do we want to rob carriages or not.

If the idea of robbing doesnt sit too easy in ones mental palette, just replace with buying value at x and the exchange of it at z. . y = secondarys on route. selling x and buying z = inside the carriage.

hmm from that x,y,z I can see the typical path selling x & buying z, , buying or selling y, arriving at , buying x , buying y, & selling Z.

Does the coach have awareness of Dick Turpin? No? Then you've been robbed. Or have we ? Well if you want to learn to trade as opposed to piloting a statistical based method then you/me/everybody would be perhaps best asking the coach about highwaymen and seeing what response you get.
 
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honesty, i have just deleted a load of your posts after they've been reported by other members as being OTT.

Tone it down please - first warning.
 
Just wanted to add some comments about mentoring and Mr Charts. I spent a day with Mr Charts 2 years ago and enjoyed the day. Some of his techniques clearly work in theory,in practice it was a lot harder. certainly you can learn from him, the layout of his course was very good. I used the word in theory earlier as I am sceptical as to its true potential in real time trading and dont see many successful traders still using his techniques and posting on the site. My main gripe with any so called mentor is that none of them actually have a proven track record that they can back up. Why not show us there accounts of a months trading,it wouldnt be hard to show with account numbers taken out etc. Many traders seem to get a reputation just built on nothing. Steve Rifkin is a great example, I was recommended to him by another so called tv guru we all should have respected,he also recommended me a broker to use. I didnt take up the offer thankfully. Rifkin never actually calls out any trades at all, just retrospectively he sends a chart saying what he did. Why dont they have chat rooms where they call out the trades and they are logged on a free trial bases.Most of them IMHO are no better than a salesman taking money off an old lady for something she cant afford and didnt want.
 
If I spent a day on the golf course with Nick Faldo and paid his daily fee (considerable I would imagine) I wouldn't dream for a moment that my handicap would suddenly go from 18 to 0.

The benefits of spending time with masters is the stuff you don't see straight away - the osmosis stuff that becomes ready when you are ready.

In the same way in which it would be pointless to copy Nick Faldos swing then if I was to spend a day with Mr. Charts I would be more interested in his trading persona than his methods.
 
Why on earth are you interested in his trading persona. Personas dont make money, good techniques and discipline do and that is what Id expect to receive. Id quite happily pay £600 for a round of golf with Faldo for the privilage and wouldnt be paying to learn.
I guess your post is tongue in cheek. A master is someone who consistantly wins in front of his audience and doesnt say " Id have gone round in 60 taday"
 
Why on earth are you interested in his trading persona. Personas dont make money, good techniques and discipline do and that is what Id expect to receive. Id quite happily pay £600 for a round of golf with Faldo for the privilage and wouldnt be paying to learn.
I guess your post is tongue in cheek. A master is someone who consistantly wins in front of his audience and doesnt say " Id have gone round in 60 taday"

My post is deadly serious actually.

Good techniques and discipline aren't something you can buy off the shelf. As for 'expecting' to receive them in a day. This is a little naive IMO.

Trading is not a video game. It's not a question of finding the 'cheat' or getting to the next level through repetition. It's a hologram, a myriad and mirage of possibilities. All these are created in your head, by you. The trading screen and how you perceive it is also all down to you. Scarey, isn't it? Rather than blaming Mr. Charts or whoever else you expect to receive the panacea of instant success from it may be prudent to swallow the bitter pill of self denial instead.

The stuff you should get from a mentor is precisely the stuff you can't get in books. Mr Charts and others have filled these forums with techniques, There are thousands of books and courses on trading available. I wonder what the ratio of successful traders to trading materials actually is.

To have or to be? That is the question.
 
Open minds and practical application

My post is deadly serious actually.

Good techniques and discipline aren't something you can buy off the shelf. As for 'expecting' to receive them in a day. This is a little naive IMO.

Trading is not a video game. It's not a question of finding the 'cheat' or getting to the next level through repetition. It's a hologram, a myriad and mirage of possibilities. All these are created in your head, by you. The trading screen and how you perceive it is also all down to you. Scarey, isn't it? Rather than blaming Mr. Charts or whoever else you expect to receive the panacea of instant success from it may be prudent to swallow the bitter pill of self denial instead.

The stuff you should get from a mentor is precisely the stuff you can't get in books. Mr Charts and others have filled these forums with techniques, There are thousands of books and courses on trading available. I wonder what the ratio of successful traders to trading materials actually is.

To have or to be? That is the question.
Rols

Agreed - this stuff doesn't come shrink-wrapped and it takes far more than a day. A student will not be handed a Holy Grail by anyone. They have to do the work over a period of time gaining experience.

A good book, course or mentor may help by making you see things from a slightly different perspective, but the time spent with any of these training methods needs to be followed up by considered thought, practial experimentation and incorporation of any knowledge gleaned, any insights or new ways of thinking into an altered strategy.

The value of any book, course or mentor will be the extent to which it makes the student change and develop their own thought processes. There is also, not necessarily, a direct correlation between the quality of the book, course or mentor and the effect on one's trading development. It is equally possible to learn from a bad book, course or mentor if the student is open to self-questioning. Bad material can also act as a catalyst for self-development, although I am not advocating this as an excuse for bad material at rip-off prices. It's just a fact of life that the student is not normally in the best position to evaluate what is good for him/her until they gain further knowledge which might then make the training unnecessary.

So if you want to spend money on this material do so with an open mind, but IMHO you can achieve the same effect with active and practical research on the web and on your own.

Charlton
 
I totally agree that a student is not best to judge as they have much to learn. Surely then they( mentors)can easily create an illusion which is why people who have just finished a training or mentoring programme came away feeling they now have the necessary tools and hence leave good reveiws. But then we never see them again. All I was asking why there are so few people leaving posts who have been succesful following training. As for Mr Charts, most of what I wrote was not aimed at him. Sure I could have got the same info from a book ,and I dont doubt some make money with some of the techniques, but does that mean he is a good trader or he has proven track record.
As I said earlier I learnt from Mr Charts but at the same time got the impression he was selling his training to make money and that his trading wasnt important to him.
 
As for Mr Charts, most of what I wrote was not aimed at him. Sure I could have got the same info from a book ,and I dont doubt some make money with some of the techniques, but does that mean he is a good trader or he has proven track record.
Julian,
Check out this thread: http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=10573
It contains numerous examples of trades by Mr. Charts. Okay, I suppose it's just possible that he could have faked the charts and that the trades are all bogus. This would be an extremely serious alegation and, if proven to be true, would make him a complete fraud and liable for prosecution. Assuming you're not suggesting this - and I really do hope you're not - then surely there is more than enough by way of a track record right here on T2W? Proof of his skill and the efficacy of his methods is plain enough for anyone to see. Furthermore, given that you've been coached by Mr. C', did you not satisfy yourself that he can do what he claims to do BEFORE you agreed to be trained by him?
As I said earlier I learnt from Mr Charts but at the same time got the impression he was selling his training to make money and that his trading wasnt important to him.
Over the years, I've read many comments about Mr. Charts; many good and a few bad. Those in the latter category are often misguided comments, but yours takes the biscuit as being the most bizarre by a very long margin! I suspect you're the sort of bloke who'd spend a day training with David Beckham and at the end of say 'he's only interested in his fee, he's not really passionate about football at all'.
Unbelievable.
Tim.
 
As I said most of my arguments were not directed at Mr Charts. I got positives from his patterns and beleive they work.You have tried to make this personal and misread what I say.I saud he appeared to be more interested in his training than his trading,so what,theres nothing wrong with that if he provides a good service. My main gripe is against people like Steve Rifkin<rs of houston,LP,AC many others all of whom have had law suits agfainst them or are pending. Clearly most oif them misrepresent themselves in many ways. Nearly all the trading available is poor and always based oin historic charts and very few if any back up what they say or trade live over a period of time.That is my gripe,they must back up what they say none do
 
Mr. Charts

Guys,

I would like to re-evaluate why i started this thread.. the main reason I wrote here was to find a mentor/trader who could take me by hand and show me how trading is done but this thread got carried away in an unsual pattern and people including myself started joining the "Band Wagon"

To re-irritate, this thread was not particularly pointed towards Mr.Charts or his teachings, i have stated this before and I would like to say this again that I did enjoy my training day with him. Just to clear things up, what i wrote was I was'nt able to trade profitably even after i attended his course.. there may be a hundred reasons to why i could'nt make it and so I do not stand him responsible for my own bad trading !

What I should have done was improve my trading in the methods I was taught which i really liked at first but than like every other person who first starts out I feel into that holy grail thinking and kid myself about other methods making more sense than what I had learnt.

To be honest, if anyone is thinking about learning from Mr.Charts I would recommend (like i did in my previous post) to take his practical course aswell, the reason I say this is because I personally think just like one cannot learn to drive a car by just learning theory trading goes the same.. you have to be in the market with your mentor who could point out your mistakes and make you a better trader. Richard's teachings maybe expensive but than they can shorten your learning curve, my only regret why the whole world suddenly started to look black when it was time for me to seriously think about attending his live course ! The reason to this was the feedback I have been hearing around from people, my accounts that i blew up and the stress i have had from all this .. you know how it can get for those who have been there, trust me a situation you do not want to be in !

Hopeing for someone to help and take me by hand in real time trading (the reason i posted on this thread) boy I was wrong ! When i posted here I thought that some good souls would come out and genuienly offer help to this struggling trader but I could'nt be more wrong about that. Yes, this even goes out for Grey1.. he did offer me help but only as far as you all can see/read, the posts that he made here on my thread was all the help i ever received.. he may have been busy but he never kept me in the loop or called me for my training day with him and to be honest I am not interested in his method or learning from him anymore.

Another thing, I am now focusing again on what I had learnt from Richard and have been able to point out the mistakes i made in my own trading so this journey is not ending this soon and don't worry i won't be blowing up my account this time.

My special thanks goes to Zoran, I am not sure if he would like me to disclose his handle but he has been particularly helpful with Forex and trusted me to share his ideas.. Although i did well trading with him, yes I actually managed to do well ! I have traded real time with this guy and he knows his stuff, we are almost like friends now but due to my schedule at work doing nights my Wife (as those who are married may know) did not like the idea of me spending another few hours watching the London open in the morning after coming back home from work. Trust me trading with Zoran in those early mornings I did not feel tired at all but as you can imagine working 12 hour night shifts with 45 mins driving each way my dear Wife made me realise i may not be able to carry on like this for long and my focus is now back again on Stocks. So a BIG THANKS to you my friend, i greatly appreciate what you taught me and one day when my circumstances change i maybe trading forex aswell with you enjoying healthy profits.

In the end, I would like to thank Mr.Charts for giving me the opportunity to learn from him, I found him to be a good and honest person and a very good teacher. His support maybe expensive but guys we are talking money here so it should'nt be surprising if a sucessful trader is willing to show you his techniques and charges you money for his time.

And lastly my advice is to "Stay away from talking heads, they can really change the way you think about yourself and your trading method"

Take Care All.


I would like to request the MODs to close this thread here for further postings as I do not want any more negativity on my thread, Thanks.
 
Hmm, You need to be careful here, are you sure that the ebook you are talking of is not the work of Mr Charts that has been copied by someone and resold ? If it is then this would be piracy.


Paul
 
Id be interested to know who wrote the book and when. i cant really see the book having anything in it that isnt in other books for far less. Im sure I still have his patterns somewhere. Sorry to hear you paid £1260 im sure I only paid £600 plus his travel exspenses.
 
Hmm, You need to be careful here, are you sure that the ebook you are talking of is not the work of Mr Charts that has been copied by someone and resold ? If it is then this would be piracy.


Paul

I asked this trader if he had any connection with Richard, in his own words

"I have heard of Mr Charts, but we've never met or communicated. A previous customer of my course mentioned his name to me saying that some of our strategies were similar, which is why I know of the name."

Hope this helps
 
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Hmm, You need to be careful here, are you sure that the ebook you are talking of is not the work of Mr Charts that has been copied by someone and resold ? If it is then this would be piracy.

What ebook are you guys talking about here? I can't find any reference to any ebook on this thread.
 
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