Keeping things simple.

[new_trader]

Hi Pete. I dont, but that doesnt mean you couldnt have a 'GET ME THE F**K OUT!' hard stop placed somewhere, if you like the idea. Personally i dont, the idea of a stop getting gaped doesnt appeal, and in the past, at least when ive tried it, when under pressure i had a tendency to sort of sit there and wait for it to get hit.
Lets say your used to taking an average loser of 3. Bang! SHF and the first print is -100. Your hard stop at say -50 wouldnt have done you much good cos you getting filled -100! In that situation id rather have no stop and aim for say -70, then go from there.

No question, there will be days when you take a belter! But they should be more than offset by the winners, which while infrequent, for the most part should be belters too.

Cheers
D

SHTF are rare, misjudgements are common. Now you advocate a hard stop "somewhere" if the trader chooses?

So the hard stop is "somewhere", you haven't got the foggiest idea where it should be but you expect a beginner to judge their limit stop correctly? What if the market hits the limit exit and reverses in the traders favour, but the hard stop was completely safe? Why not just always have a hard stop and keep the exit completely discretionary up to and including the hard stop? How does a limit stop instil any more discipline in a newbie?

 

[darktone]

There is NO WAY a beginner should even be contemplating using discretionary exits or "Limit stops". I trade with mental stops but it took me more than 5 years before I had the confidence and experience to do it. The idea of a limit stop for a beginner is insane. This whole thread belongs in "Joke of the day".

Well, ill take this post as progress from your first comment!

Anyways, why should we assume that a beginner will be as slow to learn as you? (Or me for that matter!)
I mean, wouldnt it be better to suggest they try and model themselves on someone like Tom? He seemed to do 'okay' from the get go! Page 178

Why shouldnt a beginner give it a shot with micro size? The right person could get a handle on this stuff in weeks if they were motivated imo.
Confidence comes competence, so im told.

 

[new_trader]

Well, ill take this post as progress from your first comment!

Anyways, why should we assume that a beginner will be as slow to learn as you? (Or me for that matter!)
I mean, wouldnt it be better to suggest they try and model themselves on someone like Tom? He seemed to 'okay' from the get go! Page 178

Why shouldnt a beginner give it a shot with micro size? The right person could get a handle on this stuff in weeks if they were motivated imo.
Confidence comes competence, so im told.

I think you've realised how preposterous your idea for this thread is and now you are in damage control mode. Yes, people might not be as dumb as me, but any idiot can plagiarise another traders work. WTF is the point of this thread other than to post quotes from Tom Bald one or whatever the f*ck his name is. I might start a thread titled "Keeping it even simpler" and post articles and quotes from Warren Buffet...like "The nice thing about investing in stocks is that, over time, equities are going to do well" ...how simple!

 

[Splitlink]

SHTF are rare, misjudgements are common. Now you advocate a hard stop "somewhere" if the trader chooses?

So the hard stop is "somewhere", you haven't got the foggiest idea where it should be but you expect a beginner to judge their limit stop correctly? What if the market hits the limit exit and reverses in the traders favour, but the hard stop was completely safe? Why not just always have a hard stop and keep the exit completely discretionary up to and including the hard stop? How does a limit stop instil any more discipline in a newbie?

My experience is that a lot of "what ifs" happen in trading. Only the trader can know, for sure, whether his method works, or not, amd it all comes down to statistical research.

I should think that DT is going to give us some examples of his trading and hope that he is straight with us with his losing trades.

All that said, I am inclined to your and WP's opinion but do not care to call into question a person's ability to trade properly as you appear to do. I do use a hard stop for computer and site crashes but I hope to get out manually well before then. I do not use limits because they may not be hit but I am willing to listen to the argument for them.

 

[new_trader]

I do not use limits because they may not be hit but I am willing to listen to the argument for them.

Hopefully DT will give you Tom's phone number or e-mail then :cheesy:

 

[darktone]

SHTF are rare, misjudgements are common. Now you advocate a hard stop "somewhere" if the trader chooses?
Did you miss the part where i said i dont like the idea?
So the hard stop is "somewhere", you haven't got the foggiest idea where it should be.
Exactly right! Ive no idea!
but you expect a beginner to judge their limit stop correctly?
I dont expect anything, im just offering a method,if they like it, its down to the individual to explore and find what they are comfortable with.
What if the market hits the limit exit and reverses in the traders favour, but the hard stop was completely safe? Why not just always have a hard stop and keep the exit completely discretionary up to and including the hard stop?
Have you looked at any of the examples ive posted? If you dont like it, not my problem
How does a limit stop instil any more discipline in a newbie?
Discipline? I thought i was talking about limiting loss.

Always a pleasure NT

 

[BeginnerJoe]

I might start a thread titled "Keeping it even simpler" and post articles and quotes from Warren Buffet...like "The nice thing about investing in stocks is that, over time, equities are going to do well" ...how simple!

You lack imagination. Let me give you something original and simple, and relevant to the thread:

The nice thing about trading in forex is that, over time, forex is going to do well.

Beginners have trouble understanding the time element.

 

[new_trader]

Personally i dont, the idea of a stop getting gaped doesnt appeal, and in the past, at least when ive tried it, when under pressure i had a tendency to sort of sit there and wait for it to get hit.

When under pressure you sort of sit there and wait for a hard stop to get hit, but(!), you can coolly and calmly exit with a loss using a limit order...doesn't make sense (but neither does the rest of the thread).

 

[darktone]

I think you've realised how preposterous your idea for this thread is and now you are in damage control mode.
nah!
Yes, people might not be as dumb as me,
Jeeez i f*****g hope not!
but any idiot can plagiarise another traders work.
No doubt, im just using his example to show the folks that the claims youre making might not hold a lot of weight
WTF is the point of this thread other than to post quotes from Tom Bald one or whatever the f*ck his name is.
Well i wouldnt have too if youd cut the s**t slinging
I might start a thread titled "Keeping it even simpler" and post articles and quotes from Warren Buffet...like "The nice thing about investing in stocks is that, over time, equities are going to do well" ...how simple!
Ooooh please do! It might distract you from trolling here

Again, f**k y*u very much for the input.

 

[darktone]

When under pressure you sort of sit there and wait for a hard stop to get hit, but(!), you can coolly and calmly exit with a loss using a limit order...doesn't make sense (but neither does the rest of the thread).

Taking things out of context and misrepresenting stuff. So unlike you!
Are you still pissed about that time i asked to you describe the difference between debt based and non debt based money? It is isnt it!

Sorry to those who came here for a bit debate etc. But im off to do something less boring.
No doubt sappy b******s here will take it as some sorta victory! Such is life

Like i said. Mods feel free.

 

[new_trader]

Again, f**k y*u very much for the input.

Ahh the old faithful "Troll" card gets pulled out simply because I am questioning the legitimacy of your ideas.

No doubt, im just using his example to show the folks that the claims youre making might not hold a lot of weight

I see, you're using someone else's example to show the folks that the claims I'm making based on my own experience might not hold a lot of weight. You've been here 10 years and you think that keeping stops isn't a major problem for newbies? That most of them try what you're suggesting with disastrous consequences and yet I'm in the minority?

I'll leave you to it. Good luck newbies, you are going to need it. Don't say you weren't warned.

 

[darktone]

I'll leave you to it.

Somehow i think you wont! Unfortunately!

 

[Splitlink]

Hopefully DT will give you Tom's phone number or e-mail then :cheesy:

I do not know who "Tom" is. No doubt, you do but don't bother to tell me.

 

[darktone]

I should think that DT is going to give us some examples of his trading and hope that he is straight with us with his losing trades.

Im thinking, taking videos of entry attempts! That should show how things work.
Ive been playing with VLC for screen capture which seems to work pretty well, wont be pretty or have any sound though.
Sure beats trying to type what youre doing live.

If anyone has any tips id appreciate it.

Cheers
D

 

[darktone]

In that case it comes back to the first post I made. As long as you guarantee to buy high and sell low
Can you clarify what you mean by that please, it comes across to me as though youre suggesting a loss shouldnt be taken.
the banks will take on the deal and accede to your every wish. My research tells me the banks get very excited on a £0.000001 profit. So this kind of guarantee cannot survive for any length of time.

I can't do live calls because it would give away my banks defeating strat. Also I don't use stops, don't use targets,.
Do you take losses at all? You dont always get an opportunity to take a profit
My BE suggestion is just to point to a strategy that is simpler and safer than what DT is trying to do. I don't use this BE strategy myself.
Please post it up in a screenie, or perhaps a video. Ive no problem with someone posting up better methods, they are sure to exist after all
If you offer the banks a BE, they will often take it since they have already made some on the spread. I can't let them do that, if I put in the effort, I want a profit.
Again that comes across as not taking a loss

Sorry must of missed this the first time round. Could you clarify the above please.
Cheers
D

 

[timsk]

Ahh the old faithful "Troll" card gets pulled out simply because I am questioning the legitimacy of your ideas.

n_t,
If you feel there are flaws in the thinking and/or methodology being put forward in a thread, (by darktone in this case), then it is absolutely right and proper to express your concerns and to question it. That's the very purpose of a discussion forum. However, that does not give you the right to tear into to someone in an aggressive and confrontational way, using bad language and insulting put downs. If you can't express your views in a courteous and respectful way, kindly keep them to yourself and refrain from posting at all. That applies to all threads across the site - not just this one.
Tim.

 

[Splitlink]

Sorry must of missed this the first time round. Could you clarify the above please.
Cheers
D

Hi Darktone. Videos are very elaborate and, probably. take a lot of time. You've got to keep it simple, Man!

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Sorry must of missed this the first time round. Could you clarify the above please.
Cheers
D

Sorry my friend, I can't tell you much owing the the proprietary nature of my strat. The only thing I can offer is that if you buy at 10 and stop at 5 (or limit sell at 5), you are guaranteeing to the banks that you will buy high and sell low. When you make this guarantee, you cannot blame the banks for taking you on. Overcoming this problem is what can let you escape from the fate of the 99.9%.

I take loss most often when offset by profit else where.

 

[darktone]

Hi Darktone. Videos are very elaborate and, probably. take a lot of time. You've got to keep it simple, Man!

I hear ya!
I dunno, im still liking the idea. If i 'keep things simple' and as short as poss, just showing the orders being moved and hit, cut all the sitting. Might be alright. Well see.

Cheers
D

 

[darktone]

Sorry my friend, I can't tell you much owing the the proprietary nature of my strat. The only thing I can offer is that if you buy at 10 and stop at 5 (or limit sell at 5), you are guaranteeing to the banks that you will buy high and sell low. When you make this guarantee, you cannot blame the banks for taking you on. Overcoming this problem is what can let you escape from the fate of the 99.9%.

I take loss most often when offset by profit else where.

That clarifies enough for me.

Cheers