Irans capture of British troops

[Splitlink]

Good point, and do we really care? what I think when I look at these things, I think its more of me trying to suss out the driving mental ambitions of these people (individuals, entities,governments,nations etc.) who pursue ,hmm pursue what ? what are they pursuing ?, why on earth are they living like this. It seems like we witness a basic, cyclical mindset that is still blinkered to alternative ways to do life & biz or something.

These are adults, and I know theres what? ,6 parts to a persons ageing?, but it just seems a tad basic . Hmm what springs to mind is its a form of white collar thuggery.

And looking at it I come back to why,why, why?

Answers please , who has them to help me get my head around it ?

They are, probably, thinking the same about us. What are we pursuing? All of us have motives for doing what we do. But the taxpayer should question why his money is being spent and put at risk in such a manner. Ships could, either, be diverted to another port, or searched on arrival. No need to have a British ship near a frontier that moves with the river width and has been a discussion point for centuries. I can understand Iranian motives. Our motives are more obscure.I can only asume that the British sacrified those sailors as some political pawn, to see what happens.

Split

 

[chump]

"as some political pawn, to see what happens."...I strongly doubt they were that thoughful...much more likely to be just another screw up...winger putting his foot in touch and not being quite aware enough of where he specifically was.
I've got money says they are back within a week saying they were well treated with both sides having taken every opportunity to extract some soundbites from it. ...seriously you won't go poor overestimating your fellowman's stupidity towards each other.

 

[Splitlink]

"as some political pawn, to see what happens."...I strongly doubt they were that thoughful...much more likely to be just another screw up...winger putting his foot in touch and not being quite aware enough of where he specifically was.
I've got money says they are back within a week saying they were well treated with both sides having taken every opportunity to extract some soundbites from it. ...seriously you won't go poor overestimating your fellowman's stupidity towards each other.

I see that I am, slightly,more tolerant than you! Every time that there was a fuss in the Gibraltar area-- the British submarine, for instance-- the Spaniard started looking to see if it was a ploy to divert attention from something that was happening on the home front.

Perhaps, Gordon is trying to drum up attention away from his budget.

Split

 

[Crap Buddist]

Well, on the radio it said feelings in the middle east are very similar to feelings in Poland 1934/36 (i think, late night dozy n all) , on the one hand it said theres always been a crisis in the region so people just get on with life, but because of the collection of crisis in the area, Iraq, Israel, Iran, the west, etc. then this time the feeling is somethings gonna be forced to a greater conflict.

now then if it ever did, would it be limited to conventional weapons, ? does anyone think that nuclear tactical weapons will be used ? I think the U.S. has a first use pre-emptive policy in force now ?

But Israel ? Iran with defence contracts anyway ....

Iran backing hostilities in Iraq and hesbullah against israel and dont Iran want to wipe Israel of the map?

Isnt it clear that the West based on that alone will be thinking " Iran must be neutralised "

Grief what a mess.

Iran wanting Israel not to be, is that Bull ? or do they really want it?

 

[Atilla]

Well, on the radio it said feelings in the middle east are very similar to feelings in Poland 1934/36 (i think, late night dozy n all) , on the one hand it said theres always been a crisis in the region so people just get on with life, but because of the collection of crisis in the area, Iraq, Israel, Iran, the west, etc. then this time the feeling is somethings gonna be forced to a greater conflict.

now then if it ever did, would it be limited to conventional weapons, ? does anyone think that nuclear tactical weapons will be used ? I think the U.S. has a first use pre-emptive policy in force now ?

But Israel ? Iran with defence contracts anyway ....

Iran backing hostilities in Iraq and hesbullah against israel and dont Iran want to wipe Israel of the map?

Isnt it clear that the West based on that alone will be thinking " Iran must be neutralised "

Grief what a mess.

Iran wanting Israel not to be, is that Bull ? or do they really want it?

That wiping of the map remark was for home consumption and is political vote winning. It was not meant for international foreign consumption. In private many people say much worse things about the Jews. Not to mention through out history the Jewish people suffered much worse under the hands of Christians and Roman Catholics.

This statement suits their purpose so it's trumpted aloud. Even Israeli intelligence doesn't believe Iran would launch such an attack. Iran and everyother country knows to launch such an attack will be the end of itself.

Also, when Bush or Blair trumpeting civilised democracy and freedom - this translates to we going to stuff your freedoms, bomb your assess and place our puppet regime in place. Regime change.

Natural reaction on both sides to rhetoric political bull.

Nuclear tactical weapons will be used humanely. This is where the US will say leave the area to all civilised people. They will setup control blocks and arrest anyone of fighting age. Interrogate (torture their asses). They will then use their weapons and clear out an area making it uninhabitable for humanity for 150 years +. They've done these operations before. Disrupt the terrorists they call it. They say they will then pay each family $2,000 to rebuid their lives.

All this does matter. It really saddens me that some people just don't care. What goes round comes round. Look at the facts.

1. Didn't the US help the Afghanistan people fight of the Russians. Remember all those great Rambo films. How is it our friends turn to be our arch enemies.

2. Didn't the US and Shah of Iran have a great understanding and unity going. How / Why is it that the Shah of Iran gets over thrown and Iran our good friend becomes our arch enemy. Iran first started on this Nuclear route upon US recommendation when the Shah was in power. The irony of it all. Why did the US want to feed Iran nukes then and not now?

3. Saddam was US's ally and good friend in the region. Rumsfeld shaking hands with him and selling WMP etc etc. How why is it that Saddam turns arch enemy agains us and the West and becomes a big threat that causes death of 600,000 people.

4. Why is it that most Latin American countries all despise and hate the US when the US has done so much to support their countries. Why? or How can it be?

Americans are having trouble understanding why or how these countries can be so ungrateful towards them.

They are told it is because these nations people don't like our freedoms and civilised way of life...

It also hurts me to think Blair poodle have aligned our national policies with US foreign policy. :

Apathy and Ignorance means we are losing our bond and attachment to humanity, society and fellow man.

 

[JTrader]

Well, on the radio it said feelings in the middle east are very similar to feelings in Poland 1934/36 (i think, late night dozy n all) , on the one hand it said theres always been a crisis in the region so people just get on with life, but because of the collection of crisis in the area, Iraq, Israel, Iran, the west, etc. then this time the feeling is somethings gonna be forced to a greater conflict.

now then if it ever did, would it be limited to conventional weapons, ? does anyone think that nuclear tactical weapons will be used ? I think the U.S. has a first use pre-emptive policy in force now ?

But Israel ? Iran with defence contracts anyway ....

Iran backing hostilities in Iraq and hesbullah against israel and dont Iran want to wipe Israel of the map?

Isnt it clear that the West based on that alone will be thinking " Iran must be neutralised "

Grief what a mess.

Iran wanting Israel not to be, is that Bull ? or do they really want it?

There have been conflicting reports about what Mahmoud Ahmadinejad actually said about Israel -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel

 

[chump]

"Apathy and Ignorance means we are losing our bond and attachment to humanity, society and fellow man" .. what makes you think we ever had it to lose ..it isn't apathy and ignorance..it's insight into man's innate stupidity printed on every page of history you want to read..and if "don't care" applies to me it really is simple...I do not spend my time and resources both of which are limited worrying about matters that I cannot control and i certainly cannot control my fellowman making an arseh..le of himself , all I can do is get out of the way and make sure he doesn't drag me into behaving in the same way....otherwise known as keep your crap off my doorstep along with your fairytales about who is right and wrong etc etc..

 

[Atilla]

"Apathy and Ignorance means we are losing our bond and attachment to humanity, society and fellow man" .. what makes you think we ever had it to lose ..it isn't apathy and ignorance..it's insight into man's innate stupidity printed on every page of history you want to read..and if "don't care" applies to me it really is simple...I do not spend my time and resources both of which are limited worrying about matters that I cannot control and i certainly cannot control my fellowman making an arseh..le of himself , all I can do is get out of the way and make sure he doesn't drag me into behaving in the same way....otherwise known as keep your crap off my doorstep along with your fairytales about who is right and wrong etc etc..

As someone who was at Liverpool St - Broadgate area on the day of the July bombings;

As someone who uses London Underground every day.

As someone who works in the City, where trains get delayed, cancelled or stations get closed I consider these events to be on my door step.

As someone whos government represents my vote and has voted to go to war I consider it to represent me does matter to me.

There is right and wrong and crap.

The trick is to decipher the crap and not to be apathetic about the wrongs and do the right thing.

 

[Crap Buddist]

hmm, now ith all govs. decision making etc, and yes they have been elected to represent the people, but wouldnt it in this day an age be sensible to get the people to vote on these things via the internet or something?

I mean they might get a couple of million votes to weigh up alongside their own house o commons judgement... why cant this happen ? abuse ? joe public considered not able to digest the facts? LOL joe public cannot have the facts for christ sake ..

 

[chump]

"right and wrong" ...LOL.....sheltered life son

 

[Atilla]

hmm, now ith all govs. decision making etc, and yes they have been elected to represent the people, but wouldnt it in this day an age be sensible to get the people to vote on these things via the internet or something?

I mean they might get a couple of million votes to weigh up alongside their own house o commons judgement... why cant this happen ? abuse ? joe public considered not able to digest the facts? LOL joe public cannot have the facts for christ sake ..

Dead right CB.

In fact isn't this precisely what happened with the Spanish elections shortly after their carnage. People asked why what is happening. Why are we in Iraq? They over whelmingly voted against their government and now have a new Socialist one. No further problems.

As for us, according to Scotland Yard - It's not a question of if but when?

Blair like Bush is in denial about our actions and the increase in the likelyhood of terrorism.

Interesting program on TV right now about to start.

Documentary

The Trap - What Happened to Our Dream of Freedom

9:00pm - 10:00pm

BBC2

Here is the write up on it for anyone interested...

"We Will Force You To Be Free

Sunday night is so wrong for this series. As the weary nation flops onto its collective sofa, does it really need a critical analysis of the difference between philosophical concepts of "positive" and "negative" liberty? Oh look, there's Jane Austen on ITV. To make matters worse, after the cerebral thrill-rides of the first two programmes, tonight's film gets a bit bogged down, though the climax - an analysis of what went wrong in Iraq - is scathing and utterly persuasive. Adam Curtis still comes out with sweeping pronouncements, so cheerless they're almost funny. My favourite tonight is when he says of politicians, "Seeking to protect us from danger, they led us into a world without meaning." Wow. Discuss. "

Ta ta for now...

 

[chump]

I didn't see the doc....but I'll tell you what happened to freedom..it got big govt which is why you and I have a fundamental difference we can't bridge ...this govt ,in fact any govt in my memory has not represented my vote and probably never will in future because it does not deliver what I want it to deliver which is minimal interference in my life (if this is not a view shared by the rest of the electorate tough sh..t ,I never said I was interested in democracy as people think of it today) ..leading on from this it should be apparent that it will also not f...g interfere in the lives of people of half way round the globe because it can no longer grasp the simple notion that it is not a dominant global empire anymore (shame ,but there you go) .
Leading on from that said non interference means we won't have half brains wandering around in other people's territory doing things they should not be doing except Foreign office should be no more than an English speaking tourist office in major resorts so our pi..sd up louts can be sent home eventually as opposed to puking on the doorsteps of our perfectly nice neighbours ...

The day we get a party in govt on a mandate which states it is the purpose of this govt to attempt to make itself redundant I'll get interested in voting and what transpires from it ..until then I'll apathetically keep actively working at counterbalancing the sh..te each successive govt churns out and this govt has churned more than any I can remember.
Democracy folks is being left alone to take responsibility for your own lives wherever possible and not being force fed soundbites and patronising nonsense by Eton/bridge ****h...ds who just never got past being in love with theirown sense of worth.

Now I feel so much better after that...is this blogging ? I think I like it.

 

[JTrader]

Dead right CB.

In fact isn't this precisely what happened with the Spanish elections shortly after their carnage. People asked why what is happening. Why are we in Iraq? They over whelmingly voted against their government and now have a new Socialist one. No further problems.

As for us, according to Scotland Yard - It's not a question of if but when?

Blair like Bush is in denial about our actions and the increase in the likelyhood of terrorism.

Interesting program on TV right now about to start.

Documentary

The Trap - What Happened to Our Dream of Freedom

9:00pm - 10:00pm

BBC2

Here is the write up on it for anyone interested...

"We Will Force You To Be Free

Sunday night is so wrong for this series. As the weary nation flops onto its collective sofa, does it really need a critical analysis of the difference between philosophical concepts of "positive" and "negative" liberty? Oh look, there's Jane Austen on ITV. To make matters worse, after the cerebral thrill-rides of the first two programmes, tonight's film gets a bit bogged down, though the climax - an analysis of what went wrong in Iraq - is scathing and utterly persuasive. Adam Curtis still comes out with sweeping pronouncements, so cheerless they're almost funny. My favourite tonight is when he says of politicians, "Seeking to protect us from danger, they led us into a world without meaning." Wow. Discuss. "

Ta ta for now...

I saw last weeks program - remarkably honest for the BBC.

 

[trendie]

chump,

your last post is a tour-de-force of common-sense.

tragically, people, being imperfect, and wishing to impose their own inadequancies on the rest of us, or at the very least, expecting others to bank-roll them, will always bleat loud enough to get noticed, but only by opportunistic politicians who see it as a means of acquiring power for themselves.

end result, the bleaters dont get what they wanted from the politicians they voted for.
other people get pointless legislation from the politicians they DIDNT vote for.
politicians play people along to maintain their power (and excessive expense accounts), predominantly by playing one group off against another.

you need to fix the voters inner psychological failings first.

apart from that, its a nice morning.

 

[Atilla]

I saw last weeks program - remarkably honest for the BBC.

It was mostly about negative and positive freedom and revolutions as Berlin's idea.

You can read about it in a nut shell here...

The last 15-20 minutes went on to expand how the US was pushing a positive freedom kind of idealogy at the point of a gun. At least that was my understanding of it.

Interesting program. I liked the take on Boris & Putin too. Along with Iranian revolution.

As you say JTrader, surprisingly refreshing that these kinds of programs are aired. I just wonder what kind of audience it had in the nation?

 

[counter_violent]

Chump for P M

 

[chump]

"Chump for P M"...I must be doing something wrong...I usually don't even get on most xmas card lists ..LOL

 

[Marwan2010]

Iran says they were in Iranian waters.
The allies says they were in Iraqi waters.

Who is telling the truth? How can we know?

Lets hope it turns into a big fuss about a simple misunderstanding & that the problem is resolved peacefully.

who is telling the truth?............
well, it is generally an accepted fact that the West do not lie
it is always "them" who lie
what ya think?

 

[JTrader]

who is telling the truth?............
well, it is generally an accepted fact that the West do not lie
it is always "them" who lie
what ya think?

Perhaps we could have a top 10 list of western government lies.............

 

[Marwan2010]

Perhaps we could have a top 10 list of western government lies.............

Actually a good idea.
having said that, contrary to popular belief, when Bush and Blair said that Sadaam ( Poor soul, may he rest in peace!) had WMD, they were totally correct, and that is why we invaded Iraq, to destroy these WMD.

Along with Sadaam, this weaopn was totally destroyed, Any guesses what this WMD was? You never read it in the Sun, not did the Sky or BBC report about this WMD? So what was it?