If you want to fail as a trader, study TA

[Splitlink]

I think that I have expressed an opinion on most of it, at one time or another. Nevertheless, there is an argument for everything that happens in the market and every method can be said to work sometimes. Doesn't mean that I am going to start using them , though.

 

[The Expert]

And then there were 3



TE

 

[The Expert]

Bye Bye for now, as my favourite programme has just started

TE

 

[Traduk]

You have a lot to learn about trading TD, and if you are making some money, imagine what you could make if you knew how to read the market CORRECTLY

TE

I never expect to stop learning which for me is the nature of the challenge. Nobody knows it all and light-bulb moments of inspiration can come from the most unexpected sources:cheesy:

I make money which may be classified as "some" but "some" is a non defined generality.

If improving reading the markets better enhanced some aspects of my trading experience then that would be pleasant but it is not essential. I must confess that the last year or so has become harder as the VIX regularly shrinks but Friday's allegations may be the first shot in a return to the good old days of wild moves

 

[MacAttack]

$TICK has a major flaw that very few know about, but, if your web searching skills are half as good as The Expert's, , it should take you no more than 4 minutes and 38 seconds to find the details, and how you can overcome it, if you so desire
TE

Ok........I read some stuff that some really smart person wrote. I hope I don't have to do as much statistical work as him to be successful:

A rising tick isn't necessarily buying and a declining tick isn't necessarily selling. It's very misleading. Also extremes can occur in the middle of a trend rather than the end of a trend.

Also a strong upday for example can have an extreme high tick reading and and equally extreme low tick reading.

Tick data has also changed dramatically due to decimilization of stock quotes. It only takes a penny to create a tick.

Basically the way just about everybody uses the Tick reading is wrong and the crap I read in books is wrong. How do you know all these things?

 

[MacAttack]

Mr. Expert............any chance you can suggest which trading platform I should get for stocks? Right now I only have a futures broker so I'd like to switch. I'd like to start trying some trades with 100 shares. I know enough not to blow out my account with 100 shares, and you said it would do some good.

I'd also like to be able to get the useful data that you & DT post. For instance I can't find historical TICK data on the NYSE on the internet..........at least not more than 5 days worth. I think you said you have data that streams into excel automatically also; I don't have any of this stuff. I feel like I'm a thousand miles behind................frustrating.

 

[jon1971]

It's unlikely that you'll be able to get along with TA if you want a magic bullet, holy grail, guaranteed winning trade every time you place an order.

To be fair, everything ever written on TA should come with a warning that you need disciplined money management, psychological fortitude and mental flexibility to trade TA effectively.

If you're ego driven then TA isn't for you, you need ice cool, objectivity.

It's perfectly natural & normal to crave certainty, security and comfort, it's human nature and society reinforces it. Unfortunately trading doesn't offer these.

 

[The Expert]

Mr. Expert............any chance you can suggest which trading platform I should get for stocks? Right now I only have a futures broker so I'd like to switch. I'd like to start trying some trades with 100 shares. I know enough not to blow out my account with 100 shares, and you said it would do some good.

I'd also like to be able to get the useful data that you & DT post. For instance I can't find historical TICK data on the NYSE on the internet..........at least not more than 5 days worth. I think you said you have data that streams into excel automatically also; I don't have any of this stuff. I feel like I'm a thousand miles behind................frustrating.

OK then MA, although I think I will have to change that abbreviation I have given you, so OK then MK, the first question that may allow you to help yourself some more is as follows.

Do you live in Europe or Australia, or, to get straight to the point can you open a CFD account:?:

I really do not like giving advice for brokers, as they all have their own advantages and disadvantages, but, for the beginner and the required learning, they are surely the best tool available out there at the moment, and, we will soon see why if you can open an account with one.

Now, Trader 333 has already posted something like so, "even people living in the US can get the same type of services that a CFD account offers", but, I have asked him to post details about same so that we can investigate, but so far he has not, so maybe we better remind him just in case you are unfortunate enough to be living in the US, with your regulators not allowing you to trade CFD's

It is very IMPORTANT that we get this right, for, the facts are such, that without it you might not really get anywhere with daytrading US stocks, as, if you decide to take the US standard route, you will find yourself at one major disadvantage, especially if your daytrading account is not in excess of $30K:whistling

At last, someone has actually asked a question about ACTUAL trading, is that not a big surprise on T2Wcheesy:

Well done MK, and you have given me a new idea for the upcoming private forum, which I will put to the members of the US Daytraders Social group shortly:idea:

TE

 

[The Expert]

I never expect to stop learning which for me is the nature of the challenge. Nobody knows it all and light-bulb moments of inspiration can come from the most unexpected sources:cheesy:

I make money which may be classified as "some" but "some" is a non defined generality.

If improving reading the markets better enhanced some aspects of my trading experience then that would be pleasant but it is not essential. I must confess that the last year or so has become harder as the VIX regularly shrinks but Friday's allegations may be the first shot in a return to the good old days of wild moves

It is obvious that you are not following my posts, for, I have already mentioned so many times how to pick out the good candidates for daytrading, and, the VIX can do as it likes, for we are not daytrading the VIX :smart:

TE

 

[The Expert]

Ok........I read some stuff that some really smart person wrote. I hope I don't have to do as much statistical work as him to be successful:

A rising tick isn't necessarily buying and a declining tick isn't necessarily selling. It's very misleading. Also extremes can occur in the middle of a trend rather than the end of a trend.

Also a strong upday for example can have an extreme high tick reading and and equally extreme low tick reading.

Tick data has also changed dramatically due to decimilization of stock quotes. It only takes a penny to create a tick.

Basically the way just about everybody uses the Tick reading is wrong and the crap I read in books is wrong. How do you know all these things?

I had lost the pdf that I found many years ago, and it took me 2 minutes and 19 seconds of searching to find it again - here is the important bit extracted



TE

 

[Trader333]

Now, Trader 333 has already posted something like so,

This is not something I can post on the forum as it would not be right for me to publicly condone commercial ventures but I am happy to explain by PM if requested.


Paul

 

[The Expert]

This is not something I can post on the forum as it would not be right for me to publicly condone commercial ventures but I am happy to explain by PM if requested.


Paul

OK Paul,

PM MacAttack and myself, and we will discuss in the US Daytraders Social group.

The goal here is to get MK the best deal available for daytrading 100 - 200 US share lots, with the best margin requirements, the cheapest commissions and no monthly fees for charting or trading platform, for, we that do not charge others for helping themselves do not allow such things to happen.

Thank You,

TE

 

[The Expert]

I had lost the pdf that I found many years ago, and it took me 2 minutes and 19 seconds of searching to find it again - here is the important bit extracted



TE

HmhHmm:whistling

Another old pdf I have

Investors who place orders in the limit order book provide liquidity by publicly stating the amount that they are willing to trade at a certain price, while NYSE floor brokers provide liquidity by working orders that may or may not be displayed to the general market. The specialist may supply additional liquidity by choosing to improve upon the limit order book and/or floor broker interest either by improving the price or by displaying more depth

Studies considering only the posted quotes and depths are not able to evaluate whether liquidity provision has changed or remained constant. If spreads decrease, even measures that relate posted spreads to posted depths cannot determine if these newer spreads are caused by newer limit orders or a shift of limit orders closer to the quotes. Indeed, if such a shift occurred, such measures cannot tell if it was a uniform shift or if new limit orders have tightened the spread while other limit orders have left the book. Using the cumulative depth measure, we are able to answer exactly how this liquidity provision has changed.

The specialist has the ability to supplement liquidity provided by the limit order book with floor interest as well as his own interest. The specialist can supplement liquidity by posting a better price than that on the limit order book or by adding depth to that already on the limit order book.

The liquidity provided by the limit order book, floor traders and the specialist are jointly determined, with each provider conditioning on the presence of its competitor. Thus, absent a specialist and/or floor traders, limit orders would likely be more aggressive in providing liquidity since they no longer have to face the ‘second adverse selection problem'

Discussions with the specialists who trade these particular stocks revealed that very often liquidity providers, some of whom are exchange members, place large buy and sell limit orders equidistant from the respective posted quotes.

TE

 

[MacAttack]

Do you live in Europe or Australia, or, to get straight to the point can you open a CFD account:?:

I really do not like giving advice for brokers, as they all have their own advantages and disadvantages, but, for the beginner and the required learning, they are surely the best tool available out there at the moment, and, we will soon see why if you can open an account with one.

Now, Trader 333 has already posted something like so, "even people living in the US can get the same type of services that a CFD account offers", but, I have asked him to post details about same so that we can investigate, but so far he has not, so maybe we better remind him just in case you are unfortunate enough to be living in the US, with your regulators not allowing you to trade CFD's

It is very IMPORTANT that we get this right, for, the facts are such, that without it you might not really get anywhere with daytrading US stocks, as, if you decide to take the US standard route, you will find yourself at one major disadvantage, especially if your daytrading account is not in excess of $30K:whistling
TE

No CFD's for me. I live in Oregon. I'm not that worried about the $25k requirement. When I have a process that works I'll find the money. For now I just want to open an account so I can at least trade a simulation account. I really want all of the data so I can research the numbers for myself. I'm already sick of searching the internet for something like historical tick data, plus using Yahoo historical quotes I can only download data from 1 stock at a time.

What about Tradestation? It appears it's pretty much free if you do a few round trips each month and clear thru them. Maybe $15 for data. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I got from their website if reading it correctly.

So you think it's not possible to succeed at daytrading stocks without CFD's?

 

[The Expert]

No CFD's for me. I live in Oregon. I'm not that worried about the $25k requirement. When I have a process that works I'll find the money. For now I just want to open an account so I can at least trade a simulation account. I really want all of the data so I can research the numbers for myself. I'm already sick of searching the internet for something like historical tick data, plus using Yahoo historical quotes I can only download data from 1 stock at a time.

What about Tradestation? It appears it's pretty much free if you do a few round trips each month and clear thru them. Maybe $15 for data. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I got from their website if reading it correctly.

So you think it's not possible to succeed at daytrading stocks without CFD's?

MK, anything is possible, but every trader should focus on the cheapest and easiest way to trade live, for simulation trading is as much use as reading all those books about TA

Look at it this way.

A person with a CFD account can put in $500 that they were considering giving to a coach/trainer/mentor, or any other person who is quite willing to take the money from Mr & Mrs Gullible

That person can then buy/sell 100 shares of many US stocks (limited by the required margin for a $500 account) for $1 commission per side - YES - I did say 1$ per side:idea:

If the trader decides to to risk 20 cent max per trade, then the total cost per round trip is only $22, and if we average the exits to say $20 all in, then, that is 25 losing trades in a row that the trader can do (the account will have to be topped up, but you get the picture, the trader can put in $2K to allow for margin and trading the higher priced stocks, but has only assigned $500 for initial risk, or tuition money.

Never give your money to anyone else, and I know, for I was once a fool many years ago, like many are today, but, I had to learn it all the hard way myself, and I can now tell you that no one gives a s.h.i.t about you, or anyone else for that matter, all that everyone wants is to make money, and that is fine, but do not be stupid and throw your money away to fools who really know very little more than you do anyway, and just because they post a few charts and a few KEY words, they appear to be some sort of "expert", when, the reality is again such that they are the furthest thing from an "expert" you will get, and, you can take those facts from the one and only real expert - The Expert

I will not give advice for US brokers or data providers, as I KNOW they are not a requirement, far from it actually

Feel free to take advice form others, for, it is YOUR money, and you are free to do with it as you see fit, just be careful:whistling

TE

 

[jon1971]

$2 round trip!!! Blimey that's good TE, who's that with??

Re. Tradestation brokerage, minimum account holding is $30K, about £18K of our English pounds.

CFDs are pretty good for leverage 1:4 up to about 1:10 depending on the security (with my broker anyway).

 

[MacAttack]

MK, anything is possible, but every trader should focus on the cheapest and easiest way to trade live, for simulation trading is as much use as reading all those books about TA

Look at it this way.

A person with a CFD account can put in $500 that they were considering giving to a coach/trainer/mentor, or any other person who is quite willing to take the money from Mr & Mrs Gullible

That person can then buy/sell 100 shares of many US stocks (limited by the required margin for a $500 account) for $1 commission per side - YES - I did say 1$ per side:idea:

If the trader decides to to risk 20 cent max per trade, then the total cost per round trip is only $22, and if we average the exits to say $20 all in, then, that is 25 losing trades in a row that the trader can do (the account will have to be topped up, but you get the picture, the trader can put in $2K to allow for margin and trading the higher priced stocks, but has only assigned $500 for initial risk, or tuition money.

Never give your money to anyone else, and I know, for I was once a fool many years ago, like many are today, but, I had to learn it all the hard way myself, and I can now tell you that no one gives a s.h.i.t about you, or anyone else for that matter, all that everyone wants is to make money, and that is fine, but do not be stupid and throw your money away to fools who really know very little more than you do anyway, and just because they post a few charts and a few KEY words, they appear to be some sort of "expert", when, the reality is again such that they are the furthest thing from an "expert" you will get, and, you can take those facts from the one and only real expert - The Expert

I will not give advice for US brokers or data providers, as I KNOW they are not a requirement, far from it actually

Feel free to take advice form others, for, it is YOUR money, and you are free to do with it as you see fit, just be careful:whistling

TE

Tradestation website says for 100 shares it's $1. I'm confused when you say US brokers or data providers are not a requirement. Do you mean specifically US or are you saying brokers/data providers are not a requirement; if that's the case I'm lost because I don't know how to trade or research the numbers if I don't have a broker/data provider.

You don't have to worry about me doing anything stupid with my money. I learned my lesson(s) many times over. I was also a margin analyst with a discount broker a few years ago, so I'm well aware of the mistakes people make.

 

[The Expert]

$2 round trip!!! Blimey that's good TE, who's that with??

Re. Tradestation brokerage, minimum account holding is $30K, about £18K of our English pounds.

CFDs are pretty good for leverage 1:4 up to about 1:10 depending on the security (with my broker anyway).

Come on J19, you are in the UK, YOU SHOULD KNOW

As mentioned, I do not like advertising for any broker, as they take enough in commissions and will do you the first chance they get, but, if you PM me I will let you know who gives the $1 comms per side, as I have it in writing, for i am in the process of doing something similar to what Grey 1 was doing, but, there is a BIG DIFFERENCE, for, I will be doing it with CFD accounts and using NO TA indicators or maths WHAT SO EVER, just the good old B&E approach

I know I said NO RULES, but i think I also said that NO RULES means not having to have NO RULES:cheesy:

WARNING - CFD ACCOUNTS ARE VERY RISKY IN FAST MOVING MARKETS - FOR THEY WILL PULL THE QUOTES FROM YOUR SCREEN AND LEAVE YOU SITTING THERE UNABLE TO EXECUTE YOUR TRADEs - THAT IS THEIR RIGHT - SO ACCEPT THIS OR DO NOT USE THEM

But, if you are clever enough you can use this to your own advantage as they employ youngsters than have not got the first clue about trading:clap::clap::clap:

TE

 

[The Expert]

Tradestation website says for 100 shares it's $1. I'm confused when you say US brokers or data providers are not a requirement. Do you mean specifically US or are you saying brokers/data providers are not a requirement; if that's the case I'm lost because I don't know how to trade or research the numbers if I don't have a broker/data provider.

You don't have to worry about me doing anything stupid with my money. I learned my lesson(s) many times over. I was also a margin analyst with a discount broker a few years ago, so I'm well aware of the mistakes people make.

MK, you will get $1 per 100 shares from most of them, with another US broker you can do 200 shares for $1, as $1 is the min charge.

I pay $1 per mth for access to live US stock charts with my CFD platform, and, I also trade Dow Cash, which is the same as the YM, EUR/USD, Gold, Silver and some European stocks when the opp arises

Options are also available with CFD, but are crap

A few things that might help (no rules remember)

1. Simulation only to get used to software / platform (1-2 days max)
2. Live trades with 100-200 shares ONLY until you can make money each week (this should take about 3-4 mths if able to trade each and every day).
3. All profits are EXTRACTED and out into CASH account.
4. After 3 mths of consistent profits with 100-200 shares, we then move on to 300-500 shares, and repeat for the next 3 mths.
5. After 3 mths of consistent profits with 300-500 shares, we then move on to 500-700 shares, and repeat for the next 3 mths.
6. After 3 mths of consistent profits with 500-700 shares, we then move on to 700-1000 shares, and repeat for the next 3 mths.
7. 5. After 3 mths of consistent profits with 700-1000 shares, we then move on to multiple stocks (2-3 stocks at the one time) with the 300 - 500 share size.
8. 5. After 3 mths of consistent profits with multiple stocks (2-3 stocks at the one time), we then move on to 3-5 stocks with the 300 - 500 share size, and repeat for the next 3 mths.

After reaching this target, the trader can then pick and chose what way he/she wants to trade each day, depending on what the market if offering.

TE

 

[jon1971]

But, if you are clever enough you can use this to your own advantage as they employ youngsters than have not got the first clue about trading:clap::clap::clap:

TE

Ain't that the truth.

PM sent.

What's B&E?