If you want to fail as a trader, study TA

[Mysteron]

OK THEN, here we go, and now, watch all the "experts" reply:cheesy:

Trading IS GAMBLING

If we are to GAMBLE, we must be willing to lose.

If we are willing to lose, we must not lose too much.

If we do not lose too much, then we can make more trades and get better at it.

If we get better at it we will make more money.

So, what must we do:?:

TE

Hmmm....
Tell TE what a nice guy he is and ask him how he does it :cheesy: (In which case join the queue )

Make sure for each trade that the odds are stacked heavily in favour of success, i.e. get the right method. The expected gain per trade has to be greater than zero otherwise theres no point. Also the expected gain per month has to be significant enough to live off. I think thats where your TURBO boost is needed.

 

[The Expert]

It's funny that this is the thread I found to follow. Anytime I think about how I wished I trade I think of blackjack. Learn to count cards, choose the table with the best odds, follow the rules perfectly, bet the right amount at the right time.

This is something that makes sense to me. Numbers & odds & bet sizing. I just never could figure out how to transfer it to trading, and all the books I read said I needed TA and I read a ton of them.

If I could trade with nothing but numbers with no charts it wouldn't bother me a bit.

Well anyway Mr. Expert thanks for all the help so far. I reread every single one of your posts yesterday & today; it's starting to sink in. Definitely changed the way I think. For some reason I spent 40 minutes reading about the Brentano-Müller-Lyer illusion today.

Do not read everything I post, as I post a lot of rubbish for the TA followers

Think of it this way:idea:

The majority of people are clueless when it comes to trading, so, do not listen to what the majority say

If you like GAMBLING you can make good money trading

If you like being a fool and think that trading is NOT GAMBLING, well, you might never make ANY money, never mind good money

Start as a baby does, and don't be afraid to crawl around with a dirty smelly nappy stuck to your bum:clap:

TE

 

[The Expert]

as far as things that would help the time part of the equation:

Being as accurate as possible, so you're not wasting time in a losing trade.:clap::clap::clap:

Catching your entire target or at least the bulk of it.

catching that available target as many times as possible.

If you can make 10 trades per day vs only 5 trades with the same target per trade that would be a good thing.:-0

bet the correct amount at the correct time.:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

te

 

[The Expert]

Good one, Ex. Maybe many traders would start making money by putting on a blindfold and simply set stop/profit 1:2 or just do the opposite of what they feel.. Also, looking at a 30Min. chart does not change the direction of monthly or weekly trends.

PiP, you seem like a nice chappy, but, if you continue to post those rubbish charts I will have to start slating you, for, they are making my stomach turn inside out

TE

 

[The Expert]

-----------------------------
Originally Posted by The Expert
If you think that TA is the way to make money, then, ask yourself one simple question, and that is, WHY do so many fail with all the INFORMATION that is is READILY available
TE
----------------------------

We have all seen the "95% of traders fail" disclaimers. No mention of TA or any other method so I hazzard a guess that NO MATTER WHAT METHODOLOGY IS USED, 95% will fail. It's not the method that fails it's the trader. If you suddenly became enlightened and found the HOLY GRAIL of trading and you perfectly trained 100 students and guaranteed them riches for life then set them free I'd bet 95% (maybe 90%?) would fail. Even many of the original turtles ended up failed traders because they just didn't completely follow the rules once they were set free.

Peter

The reason the turtles failed was because they were too slow:cheesy:

If you are weak-minded and feeble, YOU WILL FAIL, in the same way that weak-minded and feeble people fail in all walks of life.

One must understand what TA really means, and, it has already been mentioned, several times

TE

 

[The Expert]

Hmmm....
Tell TE what a nice guy he is and ask him how he does it :cheesy: (In which case join the queue )

Make sure for each trade that the odds are stacked heavily in favour of success, i.e. get the right method. The expected gain per trade has to be greater than zero otherwise theres no point. Also the expected gain per month has to be significant enough to live off. I think thats where your TURBO boost is needed.

Common sense is REALLY not all that common

When you shoot you must have a good rifle if you want to hit the traget



TE

 

[Trader333]

When you shoot you must have a good rifle if you want to hit the target

You could you use a shotgun

I know that in the context of what you are referring to that this is not an option.


Paul

 

[new_trader]

-----------------------------
Originally Posted by The Expert
If you think that TA is the way to make money, then, ask yourself one simple question, and that is, WHY do so many fail with all the INFORMATION that is is READILY available
TE
----------------------------

We have all seen the "95% of traders fail" disclaimers. No mention of TA or any other method so I hazzard a guess that NO MATTER WHAT METHODOLOGY IS USED, 95% will fail. It's not the method that fails it's the trader. If you suddenly became enlightened and found the HOLY GRAIL of trading and you perfectly trained 100 students and guaranteed them riches for life then set them free I'd bet 95% (maybe 90%?) would fail. Even many of the original turtles ended up failed traders because they just didn't completely follow the rules once they were set free.

Peter

Dear Comino,

Here are the answers to your questions:~

(1) I can tell you that of every hundred properly trained to a primary level of competence, roughly 95 succeed in the initial stages, but as time goes on, more of are these are forced because of their own ineptitudes or inabilities, that are now beginning to be seriously tested, to drop out, for different reasons. ALso some are too busy with other things and are forced to put trading on a back burner. Others realise its not for them. Others discover they just can't cope and so on.But a very small proportion are lazy,greedy,impatient and undisciplined by nature.These individuals have been able to hide their failings very well in ordinary life so far, but, when they enter the world of trading and now discover the remorselessness of reality in real time with its yes/no outcomes that they find brutal and unfamiliar ~ now because they cannot manipulate the outcomes to make them right when they are wrong ...Then this is a different matter! Here the ninnies receive a shock.The weakest are sorted out straight away. It is not that they fail - these do not succeed, because they prevent themselves from doing so by the way they go about it, and what is worse, the ninnies that persist in remaining have among them whingers who try to corrupt the others.What they are lacking, that they have been able to hide so far all their lives perhaps is the right character. They start to do experiments, all on their own, trying to find a shortcut, that does not exist for anyone's benefit. Then it starts........
they do things they should not be doing, they look at things they should not be looking at, they explore ideas they should not be exploring, they forget what they have been taught, they make a mess of everything. In fact they work very hard at trying not to work to start with. All this in secret at first, because everybody wants to be right as a result of ego, this is a natural human reaction that works in ordinary life - but not in the world of trading. Now these individuals are totally corrupted and confused. Their pride prevents them from admitting these mud pies. They form little knitting circles. They are not only corrupted themselves, they do their best to seriously corrupt as many as they can, because they want to be proved right even though they are wrong. It's horrendous. They now become targets for unscrupulous individuals who try to take advantage of them as victims by suggesting to them short cuts. Short cuts that at first appear plausible. There are no short cuts. This is a cruel world of yes and no, there is no room for individuals seeking privileges. Then there is another tragic category of individuals who are not bright enough, but accustomed to the scenario in ordinary life that I have just described and refuse to modify their behaviour accordingly therefore they cannot learn on the one hand and on the other hand refuse to be taught because even when irrefutable proof is laid in front of them, they refuse to accept it, and proceed to argue ~ just imagine this nightmare, and everyone looks the same but is not. It is funny and sad at the same time, but practically impossible to carry out instantaneous character tests that are reliable.
Whilst all this is going on the greater majority are plodding along and slowly disengaging from the corruptive element( bear in mind that in normal life sharing is the best way of achieving - in trading being alone and coming to terms with what is laid before us is the best way of achieving) The plodders begin to succeed but have to pretend they are not in order not to be pestered any further. Time passes, and with help the plodders that remain are helped to higher levels of knowledge and awareness until on the basis of a pyramid the best are at the top. This process takes between 6 to 8 years. All those remaining in the pyramid succeed each according to their merits in achieving consistent profits over time. The best are not the best because they are geniuses. They are the best because they have what money cannot buy, which I have discovered to my amazement is the right character for this profession. I have discovered that it is impossible to develop the correct mindset in individuals that do not possess the right character. This is very far above mechanical trading. Only those individuals that have the right character can aspire to go higher.

 

[Traduk]

Common sense is REALLY not all that common

When you shoot you must have a good rifle if you want to hit the traget



TE

If you're hunting tragets then I guess you must. A blunderbuss is what I thought was your weapon of choice

TA is a laser sight with range finder on precision kit.

 

[MacAttack]

This was mentioned

Very astute reader, but, what are the 2 lines and what might be significant about the picture, as, will be confirmed over the coming weeks:idea:

Well done, another good bit of individual thinking

TE

Ok.............this one is driving me nuts ! Got another clue?
I can't figure out what the red & green line is, and I can't figure out what the yellow & white lines are. So not doing too good.
I see that the yellow line used to be above the white line, but now the white line has taken the lead.

 

[Traduk]

Ok.............this one is driving me nuts ! Got another clue?
I can't figure out what the red & green line is, and I can't figure out what the yellow & white lines are. So not doing too good.
I see that the yellow line used to be above the white line, but now the white line has taken the lead.

The chart looks like nyse Tick as a line chart. The green and red lines are coloured green for up, red for down. Shading is for visual effect.

The white and yellow line are two very near settings on a smoothed, exponential or weighted moving average that are measuring the sum totals of movement above\below the zero line. They crossed as the Tick turned less positive and have remained so as the slightly positive balance is near zero.

People use the nyse $tick to gauge the sentiment on that exchange and who is doing what with intent.

Have a look at the following url and it should give you a better understanding of how the author uses the information. Remember however to let your eyes translate the candles into close line chart by looking at the closes in each candle but personally I would look at highs of ups\ lows of downs as range and extremes are the important factors.

Url http://www.researchlabtrading.com/public/434.cfm?sd=36

This indicator is used by many traders to avoid fighting the tide because where the NYSE goes, so goes much else.

I think its a shame that TE has to play mind games because posting a chart with a brief explanation takes little time but to send people off on a wild goose chase for a week appears to give him sadistic pleasure.

 

[Mysteron]

...
I think its a shame that TE has to play mind games because posting a chart with a brief explanation takes little time but to send people off on a wild goose chase for a week appears to give him sadistic pleasure.

TE has a unique style which seems to wind up some people but also serves to interest others. His approach seems to be to present a snippet of information which will then force anyone sufficiently interested to think for themselves as to its meaning. I have to admit to a certain amount of pleasure reading the responses of those who take issue with him.

Despite the name of the thread I have studied TA and various trading methods but I don't believe everthing that I have come across. I learned to think independently and critically many years ago when involved in a technical subject which has nothing to do with trading. Just because something is published in a book or journal does not mean that it is true and I will always apply my own judgement to assess the relaibility of what I'm told.

That is especially so when trying to make sense of trading methods. There are too many charlatons trying to extract payment for courses. One that come to mind is a certain Dr B (with an irrelevant doctorate) who gives free access to some video courses to get the naive wannabee hooked then wanting payment for more advanced courses. The free videos come across as being very professional but what gave the game away to me was the use of pseudo-scientific terminology such as "energies coming together" when describing the use of various indicators.

On the theme of pseudo-scientific nonsense the use of fibonacci levels comes to mind. I'm aware of the application of fibonacci numbers in nature but why should the name of a 12th century mathematician be associated with stock market movements today? Is it because someone has proved mathematically or verified through simulation that the collective behaviour of all market participants causes retracements to naturally emerge at fibonacci levels? Or is it the case that a sufficiently large proportion of market participants trade according to their belief in fibonacci levels thus providing a self fulfilling prophecy? In either case, has there ever been any study performed to show that retracements to fibonacci levels actually occur? It does seem to me that the use of fibonacci levels is just an act of faith by the believers like a religion.

 

[The Expert]

TE has a unique style which seems to wind up some people :clap:but also serves to interest others. His approach seems to be to present a snippet of information which will then force anyone sufficiently interested to think for themselves as to its meaning. I have to admit to a certain amount of pleasure reading the responses of those who take issue with him.

Despite the name of the thread I have studied TA and various trading methods but I don't believe everthing that I have come across.:clap: I learned to think independently and critically many years ago when involved in a technical subject which has nothing to do with trading. Just because something is published in a book or journal does not mean that it is true :idea:and I will always apply my own judgement to assess the relaibility of what I'm told.

That is especially so when trying to make sense of trading methods. There are too many charlatons trying to extract payment for courses. One that come to mind is a certain Dr B (with an irrelevant doctorate) who gives free access to some video courses to get the naive wannabee hooked then wanting payment for more advanced courses. The free videos come across as being very professional but what gave the game away to me was the use of pseudo-scientific terminology such as "energies coming together" when describing the use of various indicators.

On the theme of pseudo-scientific nonsense the use of fibonacci levels comes to mind. I'm aware of the application of fibonacci numbers in nature but why should the name of a 12th century mathematician be associated with stock market movements today? Is it because someone has proved mathematically or verified through simulation that the collective behaviour of all market participants causes retracements to naturally emerge at fibonacci levels? Or is it the case that a sufficiently large proportion of market participants trade according to their belief in fibonacci levels thus providing a self fulfilling prophecy? In either case, has there ever been any study performed to show that retracements to fibonacci levels actually occur? It does seem to me that the use of fibonacci levels is just an act of faith :clap: by the believers like a religion.

This post deserves a BIG recommendation:clap:

TE

 

[The Expert]

The chart looks like nyse Tick as a line chart. :clap:The green and red lines are coloured green for up, red for down. Shading is for visual effect. :clap:

The white and yellow line are two very near settings on a smoothed, exponential or weighted moving average that are measuring the sum totals of movement above\below the zero line. They crossed as the Tick turned less positive and have remained so as the slightly positive balance is near zero.

People use the nyse $tick to gauge the sentiment on that exchange and who is doing what with intent.

Have a look at the following url and it should give you a better understanding of how the author uses the information. Remember however to let your eyes translate the candles into close line chart by looking at the closes in each candle but personally I would look at highs of ups\ lows of downs as range and extremes are the important factors.

Url http://www.researchlabtrading.com/public/434.cfm?sd=36

This indicator is used by many traders to avoid fighting the tide because where the NYSE goes, so goes much else.

I think its a shame that TE has to play mind games because posting a chart with a brief explanation takes little time but to send people off on a wild goose chase for a week appears to give him sadistic pleasure.:|:clap:

You have a lot to learn about trading TD, and if you are making some money, imagine what you could make if you knew how to read the market CORRECTLY

TE

 

[Splitlink]

This post deserves a BIG recommendation:clap:

TE

I wonder why that would be? :whistling

 

[The Expert]

The only thing that Socrates really knew was that he knew nothing at all

TE

 

[The Expert]

I wonder why that would be? :whistling

Simple, cause it is ALL true

TE

 

[Splitlink]

But not original. We knew most of it before you came onto the scene

 

[The Expert]

What the hell are all you guys doing sitting in front of a PC on a Saturday, have you not got anything else better to do

Seeing as you are here, I will exapnd to keep you from geting bored:cheesy:

$TICK has a major flaw that very few know about, but, if your web searching skills are half as good as The Expert's, , it should take you no more than 4 minutes and 38 seconds to find the details, and how you can overcome it, if you so desire

I will however agree, with the info posted about VERY EXTREME levels, for, it ties in nicely with the cliché, large range bars are always followed by narrower range bars

How many have memorized the required clichés

Also, watching the TICK will not make you rich, but it can tell you whan to take your profits and when to get back in again

Remember what Grey 1 used to do, buying, adding, off loading, buying again, adding, off loading, and so on and so forth. I will hand one thing to Grey 1, he knew what had to be done, even if he went the wrong way about doing it:whistling

TE

 

[The Expert]

But not original. We knew most of it before you came onto the scene

Pity you don't say it then,:cheesy: afraid you might offend someone

TE