I Stopped Using Stops
- Thread starter Wicked_Daddy
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Well, you say you were risking 5pips. Id say you were risking far more that.
If the market were to tick '1' after your entry but before your stop had been filled, then you getting filled at 1.
From there it depends on what your broker offers, guaranteed stops, no neg balance etc. And then the good grace of the broker to make good on that offer.
Thats how i see it.
Responsibility: I realise now thats a bad way to put it. With either a stop or limit, you giving up responsibility to an order that will execute at some point in the future. Not to say that you cant hit the market before the order executes mind.
Its more about how youre setting your orders up to execute in the future and what that means to you.
Your conversation with the market:-
Hey buddy, price is x, what you wana do?
ill buy that price thanks. Oh, but if you offer me -5 ill take it (your stop)
Hey buddy, +2, 100% of this move, deal?
No thanks mate. Oh, but if you offer me -5, ill still take it.
Hey buddy, +5, 100% of this move, deal?
No thanks mate. Oh, but if you offer me 0, ill take it.(moved your stop up)
SOLD at 0!
Cheers mate.
And so ends your opportunity in this current play.
Through the pullback the market was always talking to you. But you didnt want to play and stood aside, for whatever reason.
The market then retraced, talking to you all the while.
Hey buddy, the price is at xy, what you wana do?
Ill sell that price please mate, Oh, but if you offer me -5, ill take it (your stop)
Now from here I dont know if you took your 20 profit on a stop / limit / at market.
But if it was on a stop, at some point the market said.
Hey buddy, + (whatever the MFE later turned out to be). you wana take 100% of this move?
No thanks mate. Oh, but if you offer x points less than this for x% less than 100% of this move at +20, ill take it. (your stop)
SOLD at +20!
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If Id started buying when you did, also not knowing how deep the pb will be. The market would have had the same conversations with me, just a whole lot more of them cos i got my size divided up
Theres just one subtle difference, Im always looking for prices in my favour.
Hey buddy, -15, 100% of this move, whatcha wana do?
No thanks mate, Oh but if you offer me -5, Ill take it (my limit order)
Hey buddy, -25, 100% of this current move, deal?
No thanks mate, oh, but if you offer me -10, ill take it (moved my limit)
Over the course of the PB id have had many conversations with the market. Overall I might have lost a little bit, broke even, made a little bit all the trades ive scratched, but id still be in the game, likely with a position averaged near the lows, id still have the opportunity to profit when that retrace to the highs took place.
Hey buddy, +35, 100% profit on this move, deal?
No thanks mate, but ill take +40 if you offer me it.
SOLD at +40!
If I wanted to sell the market when you chose to start selling, theres no reason why i couldnt. Id say that perhaps its not me thats missed the opportunity here.
All subjective because i wasnt there. But i do know how id play it.
??????....
I am moving on....GL with you trading.
Fug
darktone
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No worries mate
all the best
darktone
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Two conversations Ive had with the market so far this morning.
The final two exchanges went something like this:-
Hey buddy, 10980, +58, deal?
no thanks mate, but ill take 10998 for +76, let me know.
SOOOLD at 11009 for +87!
Hey man, thanks very much. I tell yah, it just aint true what them T2Winners say about you Mr Market. Youre alright in my book mate
Hey buddy, 10962 for +80?
Can you do 10990?
Course I can! SOOOOLD at 10990 for +108
Top fella, see you again soon mate
The final two exchanges went something like this:-
Hey buddy, 10980, +58, deal?
no thanks mate, but ill take 10998 for +76, let me know.
SOOOLD at 11009 for +87!
Hey man, thanks very much. I tell yah, it just aint true what them T2Winners say about you Mr Market. Youre alright in my book mate
Hey buddy, 10962 for +80?
Can you do 10990?
Course I can! SOOOOLD at 10990 for +108
Top fella, see you again soon mate
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darktone
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Just one last thing Fug. That profit you took in your example, +20. Was it on a stop?
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what is return on notional risk?
darktone
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I was getting at risk considered next to the total notional size the individual trader is swinging.
Ie two traders want to buy the Dax (its at 10,000)
They both have 10k risk capital to their name an its all in their margin accounts. Both had one trade (campaign) for the day and both finish the day up £100.
Trader 1:-
Watches price fall to 9930 and waits for them to rise and confirm his view. He goes in on a stop at 10ppp at 10020 and places a stop straight away at 1010. Prices rise to 10060 before breaking sharply. The trader had moved his stop up to 10030 and is stopped out for +10
Trader 2:-
Watches price start to fall and gets a total of 10 x 0.10ppp (1ppp) limit orders filled at various prices and finishes out averaged at 9940. The biggest they got at any time was 15 units (1.5ppp).
Watching prices rise through 10020 he puts out limits to take profit at 10040 and is filled for +100 on all 10 orders.
Both traders book 1% relative to acc but only one books 1% relative to the total notional value of the position.
In my view, Trader 1 is ten times riskier than Trader 2.
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darktone
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Another quick quiz time.
Before I kick my own butt oot the door another T2W holiday.
The chart below shows the last couple o campaigns for the day.
In ze chart below:-
The blue circle arrow type thing is when and where i started the campaign.
The red label is the average entry price achieved.
The aqua label is where the those positions where covered.
So, how did I manage such timely executions?
Before I kick my own butt oot the door another T2W holiday.
The chart below shows the last couple o campaigns for the day.
In ze chart below:-
The blue circle arrow type thing is when and where i started the campaign.
The red label is the average entry price achieved.
The aqua label is where the those positions where covered.
So, how did I manage such timely executions?
tar
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Making ton of points in a session or 2 or even 100 sessions is meaningless , any kid can do that , what matters is system expectancy on the long run .
It seems that most traders have a fixation with "win rate" , that's why they don't like to use stops . FACT : win rate alone is irrelevant , it means nothing , if you don't know this by now then you don't know whats trading is all about . No one cares if your win rate is 80 or 90% its not as good as it seems .
Infact if your win rate is so high then it indicates that your system is not solid and its low quality .
It seems that most traders have a fixation with "win rate" , that's why they don't like to use stops . FACT : win rate alone is irrelevant , it means nothing , if you don't know this by now then you don't know whats trading is all about . No one cares if your win rate is 80 or 90% its not as good as it seems .
Infact if your win rate is so high then it indicates that your system is not solid and its low quality .
darktone
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Hey youve 'unstopped' yourself
. How did you re enter the thread? Was it on a stop or limit?? youre amongst friends mate! Im not sure anyone could give less of a shìt bout my win rate than me, but, it seems pretty important to you, so heres some facts.
From 26/06/15 to end of play today:-
Winners: 229 trades (50.9%)
Loosers : 221 trades (49.1%)
Starting balance: £2420.34
End Balance : £2632.24
Profit : £211.90 (8.7%)
As for what I see as important in trading. Id say to generate as much profit as possible with the least risk.
darktone
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Sorry tom, no game here. It just is what is.
Now how about the pair of you have a go at the questions.
tar
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Hey youve 'unstopped' yourself
Im not sure anyone could give less of a shìt bout my win rate than me, but, it seems pretty important to you, so heres some facts.
From 26/06/15 to end of play today:-
Winners: 229 trades (50.9%)
Loosers : 221 trades (49.1%)
Starting balance: £2420.34
End Balance : £2632.24
Profit : £211.90 (8.7%)
As for what I see as important in trading. Id say to generate as much profit as possible with the least risk.
When i said "you/your" i meant you "the trader" , wasn't talking to you specifically ...
