How To Think Correctly

[SOCRATES]

i conclude that is true not so much a trader is born a trader as some will interpret but has the neccessary abilities/talents to see it through

The problem is...hehe...the majority do not believe what i say...but all of it is true...and...hehe...they decide to "react"...now what it is...is that everybody has
attributes...everybody...but the great majority are sort of scared of pushing against
the glass wall that restrains them...because they think the wall is solid....but....if they
were to try....I mean really try....they would all succeed.

It is a problem of perception....and not a problem of practical reality.

 

[blackcab]

I do not like posting charts in this section, but it will be interesting to see the comments on this following the last few posts.

Look at the following chart that was just taken, by opening the pdf and rotating the chart 180 degrees counterclockwise.

Do you see anything that you might not normally see?

Sometimes standing on your head can help a great deal :idea:

An elephant. Do you mean turning the chart upside down?

 

[andycan]

The problem is...hehe...the majority do not believe what i say...but all of it is true...and...hehe...they decide to "react"...now what it is...is that everybody has
attributes...everybody...but the great majority are sort of scared of pushing against
the glass wall that restrains them...because they think the wall is solid....but....if they
were to try....I mean really try....they would all succeed.

It is a problem of perception....and not a problem of practical reality.

yes perception is the issue i believe i have said this before

 

[CYOF]

An elephant. Do you mean turning the chart upside down?

An elephant drops a mighty load, so you want to be real careful there, especially if your are on your head

When you look again, think of what I have been EMPHASISING, and it should become clear, as Socrates says, it should stick out like a sore thumb.

Now, this is no joke, for all is never what it seems, but if you follow the majority, then always remember the words of Montaigne - Hint

"there is nothing like alluring the appetite and affections; otherwise you make nothing but so many asses laden with books;"

 

[SOCRATES]

Socrates,

Can you elaborate on your statement: "The few....would continue no matter what and would cross to the other side, as a matter of persistence. "

If possible keep it specific to trading rather than using analogies.

I am particularly interested in what you mean by "No matter what"

I will give you one example...I have one guy in my group...this one had a very bad accident several years ago because he fell out of a window and was in a coma for 3 months....and not expected to come out of it...but...as luck would have it,...he did.

He had to undergo a long period of recuperation...not just physical but in many other ways.

He came to me and I taught him for ten days....in a group with another two...who incidentally were in better physical and mental / emotional shape than he was at the time.

But I recognised in him a special attribute cluster the others did not have.

On the third day in the classroom he came to me and told me that as a consequence of what I had already explained in the first two days....hehe...he had rung his broker and sold everything he had....and then...hehe...he rang them up again pretending to be his father....and cleared out his entire portfolio too.

He sold at the absolute top of the bull market in tech stocks....two days later...hehe....the Nasdaq crashed...wiping out billions of values.

None of these things are coincidences.

In the second leg of continuation training of a further 5 days...I deselected one of them.

In the third leg of continuation training I deselected the other one and kept him ...only.

In the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh eigth ninth tenth eleventh twelfth thirteenth and fourteen legs of continuation training, done on a 1 - 1 basis or with more advanced members of the group...I continued to test him...rigorously...mercilessly...at the same time that I taught him new things and mentored him on ground already covered....in a structured programme of very intensive overlapping levels of learning and practical application.

This included technical analysis skills and live trading where and when possible.

All this while he obediently did everything expected of him, with the occasional small lapse or blunder but nothing really serious....not off the rails...you understand. His dedication did not waver. He was absolutely determined to absorb everything and to succeed.

During this period he kept on getting emails from the deselected parties trying to drill his head in for information....he actually had to pretend he had given up to get some peace, whereas in reality he had left the family business and was engaged full time on this project.

And so for him this was a huge odessey...because he had to change himself in may ways that ordinary people would shrink from doing, and it is a tribute to his wife and family whom I have met on many occasions that they were right behind him all the way.

This periodic and systematic progress went on for 5 years under close supervision of the most intense degree plus an expanded syllabus.

He was then ready to be taken to the higher levels. He worked and worked and worked and worked and worked.

Today he is in his eigth year and we still talk nearly daily and he is now ended all his continuation training and is on final training with the unanimous approval of my group.

He has had huge personal obstacles to overcome which he has born with unflinching fortitude and dedication but he has gained his reward of near perfect proficiency, relentlessly, daily, hourly ...whatever.

He is one of a handful, only a handful. When I started to teach I dreamt of having a regiment.

I have ended up with one small diversified troop, each of whom bring special skills, and each of whom is specialised additionally.... who are trained to the highest level......and in whom I have complete trust......so It is rather like having a private special forces unit of one's own.

They are each of them very special people. They are like a band of brothers to me and each other. The girls are absolutely terrific too.

This post is not only an explanation of as far as I am willing to give in public, but also it is as a special tribute to him, as I know tonight after hours he will read this, and therefore take this opportunity on my behalf and on behalf of the others to be told........WE SALUTE YOU !

Additionally WE ARE ALL VERY PROUD OF YOU ! (but please log on invisible mode so you are not spotted :cheesy: )

 

[CYOF]

I will give you one example...I have one guy in my group...this one had a very bad accident several years ago because he fell out of a window and was in a coma for 3 months....and not expected to come out of it...but...as luck would have it,...he did.

He had to undergo a long period of recuperation...not just physical but in many other ways.

He came to me and I taught him for ten days....in a group with another two...who incidentally were in better physical and mental / emotional shape than he was at the time.

But I recognised in him a special attribute cluster the others did not have.

On the third day in the classroom he came to me and told me that as a consequence of what I had already explained in the first two days....hehe...he had rung his broker and sold everything he had....and then...hehe...he rang them up again pretending to be his father....and cleared out his entire portfolio too.

He sold at the absolute top of the bull market in tech stocks....two days later...hehe....the Nasdaq crashed...wiping out billions of values.

None of these things are coincidences.

In the second leg of continuation training of a further 5 days...I deselected one of them.

In the third leg of continuation training I deselected the other one and kept him ...only.

In the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh eigth ninth tenth eleventh twelfth thirteenth and fourteen legs of continuation training, done on a 1 - 1 basis or with more advanced members of the group...I continued to test him...rigorously...mercilessly...at the same time that I taught him new things and mentored him on ground already covered....in a structured programme of very intensive overlapping levels of learning and practical application.

This included technical analysis skills and live trading where and when possible.

All this while he obediently did everything expected of him, with the occasional small lapse or blunder but nothing really serious....not off the rails...you understand. His dedication did not waver. He was absolutely determined to absorb everything and to succeed.

During this period he kept on getting emails from the deselected parties trying to drill his head in for information....he actually had to pretend he had given up to get some peace, whereas in reality he had left the family business and was engaged full time on this project.

And so for him this was a huge odessey...because he had to change himself in may ways that ordinary people would shrink from doing, and it is a tribute to his wife and family whom I have met on many occasions that they were right behind him all the way.

This periodic and systematic progress went on for 5 years under close supervision of the most intense degree plus an expanded syllabus.

He was then ready to be taken to the higher levels. He worked and worked and worked and worked and worked.

Today he is in his eigth year and we still talk nearly daily and he is now ended all his continuation training and is on final training with the unanimous approval of my group.

He has had huge personal obstacles to overcome which he has born with unflinching fortitude and dedication but he has gained his reward of near perfect proficiency, relentlessly, daily, hourly ...whatever.

He is one of a handful, only a handful. When I started to teach I dreamt of having a regiment.

I have ended up with one small diversified troop, each of whom bring special skills, and each of whom is specialised additionally.... who are trained to the highest level......and in whom I have complete trust......so It is rather like having a private special forces unit of one's own.

They are each of them very special people. They are like a band of brothers to me and each other. The girls are absolutely terrific too.

This post is not only an explanation of as far as I am willing to give in public, but also it is as a special tribute to him, as I know tonight after hours he will read this, and therefore take this opportunity on my behalf and on behalf of the others to be told........WE SALUTE YOU !

Additionally WE ARE ALL VERY PROUD OF YOU ! (but please log on invisible mode so you are not spotted :cheesy: )

Socrates,

FWIW, some of us do believe what you say, and you are to be commended for your ability and generosity to others.

You have surely discovered the ultimate meaning of Cause and Effect.

I take my hat off to you, and you are an inspiration to the art of trading.

Slainte,

 

[SOCRATES]

Socrates,

FWIW, some of us do believe what you say, and you are to be commended for your ability and generosity to others.

You have surely discovered the ultimate meaning of Cause and Effect.

I take my hat off to you, and you are an inspiration to the art of trading.

Slainte,

Thank you...but cause and effect are by-products.

The real fuel that drives the makets is intent.

Intent....covert....camouflaged....wilful...tantalising... intent is what baffles nearly everybody.

And sussing this hidden intent is the true art of trading.

We are not specifically talking about predicting.

Accurate prediction is also a by product.

It comes from beyond deep understanding.

It arrives as a result of total harmony with unfolding events that inexhorably give very solid clues ( usually)....and leads to reliable expectancy.

...And by the way...he is not the only one...if one day you were to meet him face to face he would tell you all of this himself....and the others .....equal ...very heartening.

(invisible mode please, ladies and gentlemen )

 

[laptop1]

Socs

I will give you an easy question. I don't want to use data mining techniques in your answer to how Nostradamus used to write. here goes the Question

..................................Are you a Day Trader or Position Trader?.........................

 

[SOCRATES]

Socs

I will give you an easy question. I don't want to use data mining techniques in your answer to how Nostradamus used to write. here goes the Question

..................................Are you a Day Trader or Position Trader?.........................

Both. Different instruments lend themselves to different postures to be taken with them.

 

[laptop1]

Both. Different instruments lend themselves to different postures to be taken with them.

"This is the answer I though I would get I was correct in my thinking"

 

[new_trader]

Socrates,

FWIW, some of us do believe what you say, and you are to be commended for your ability and generosity to others.

You have surely discovered the ultimate meaning of Cause and Effect.

I take my hat off to you, and you are an inspiration to the art of trading.

Slainte,

Agree. Thanks Socrates.

 

[grantx]

CYOF,

Re your chart. I've printed it, and can't see anything extraordinary. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me.

Grant.

 

[SOCRATES]

"This is the answer I though I would get I was correct in my thinking"

Yes of course...

In some instruments in some markets, because of their characteristics, you can make your day's money quickly in the first burst of trading, derivatives particularly.

In others, such as option giving the strategy is different and takes calculated time to achieve the result.

In others, such as currencies you have to wait and pounce quickly and it can be over in minutes.

In blue chips, it may take several weeks or even months.

So it is horses for courses in the wonderful kaliedoscope of opportunities that present themselves in the marketplace for everyone to benefit, each one according to his preference.

 

[CYOF]

CYOF,

Re your chart. I've printed it, and can't see anything extraordinary. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten me.

Grant.

I will share some thoughts, gx, but remember, I really know nothing about anything.

Firstly, read what Socrates has said again, especially, "each one according to HIS preference", as this is very important.

Some time ago, I came across an article called P.O.P, aka, Phantom of The Pits.

P.O.P was a renowned futures trader, and this interview, the only one he gave, has some real gems for all traders.

During the course of my readings, I came across a paragraph where P.O.P explained that it can be beneficial to look at charts in completely different time frames to what everyone else does - experiment and see what happens, was his advice.

I tried this, and decided to put my own little twist on it - I turned the chart 180 degrees counterclockwise, and started to examine the charts.

Now, we are not talking about anything out of the ordinary here, just a chart rotated. After a while I began to see something jumping out at me - as Socrates says - like a sore thumb.

I will not spoil it for you yet, as you must study the charts until it jumps out at you.

It does not matter what time frame you are in, for the detail I am talking about is well known by all, but many fail to see the significance of it for trading, and especially daytrading.

The rotation tends to show up the significance - well, for me at least.

It will be noted by someone, of that I am sure, but lets see how long it takes.

The answer will start a very good discussion indeed, a discussion which will be about a very profitable daytrading strategy.

Slainte,

 

[CYOF]

An elephant. Do you mean turning the chart upside down?

Apologies blackcab, but I could not resist the elephant comment.

I did mislead a little by the upside down comment, and NO, the chart is 180 dg counterclockwise as per above post.

I must check and see if I can find that elephant, btw

Regards,

 

[CYOF]

I want to finish with 2 questions, that I hope some will answer.

This is no joke, it is a small experiment I want to do in relation to how dreaming may indicate if certain individuals are on the same thought plane.

Q1:

Have you ever had recurring dreams where you were actually able to fly? - and if so, what was the most common thing that resulted in the flying, was it fear, fleeing from someone or some thing, or was it just to enjoy the feeling and observe the beauty from the air.

Q2:

How would you rate yourself in relation to success? - a)well below average b)below average
c)average d)above average e) well above average.

If you do not want to post, then please PM me, and I will just post the results - privacy guaranteed, you have my word on that.

Thank You.

 

[grantx]

CYOF,

I’ll keep looking at the chart.

Re the Phantom. I have a copy of this interview. And although I’ve only quickly read a few pages, I think there could be merit in what he has to say (I’m am expecting “gems” ). Moreover, his ego isn’t to the fore. Modesty, humility, traders: rare in the same sentence.

Grant.

 

[blackcab]

I did mislead a little by the upside down comment, and NO, the chart is 180 dg counterclockwise as per above post.

Please excuse my befuddlement. I've been watching George Bush talk You mean take the chart and turn it upside down? (that's 180 degrees, doesn't matter if it's clockwise or counter-clockwise). Or do you mean 90 degrees (a quarter turn)?

 

[blackcab]

Unrelated to anything, I saw this quoted in a book today:

Antoine de Saint-Exupéry -- "Here is my secret. It is very simple. It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; What is essential is invisible to the eye."

 

[blackcab]

I want to finish with 2 questions, that I hope some will answer.

Q1: Have you ever had recurring dreams where you were actually able to fly? - and if so, what was the most common thing that resulted in the flying, was it fear, fleeing from someone or some thing, or was it just to enjoy the feeling and observe the beauty from the air.

Yes, and it wasn't to do with fear or fleeing. Just a general 'being special' kind of feeling.

Q2: How would you rate yourself in relation to success? - a)well below average b)below average
c)average d)above average e) well above average.

DIfficult because 'success' needs qualifying. Success in what sense? For most words I can imagine going in place of 'success' in the question, like happiness, fulfilment, well-being, at-one-ness, securedness, I'd say above or well above average. For success in terms of wealth, power, social status, etc. - I've no idea and no real interest.