Greek Debt Crisis Simplified

[Pat494]

Thats an angle I didn't think about. Its easy to forget about those mountains of money who's owners haven't got debt in their headlines.

For those that have money or can borrow plenty at near 0% then this crisis is ideal. They buy up stuff cheap and will sell later when things improve at a vast profit.

Hardship ? Not those babies. Even Union bosses are licking their lips at the forthcoming winter of violence.

 

[FXCC]

I worked in Greece for a few years so here's a couple of example of where the Greek worries comes from:

Collective employment agreements:
Under the old regulations, any employer who wanted to fire an employee after I think 12 years of employment had to give 48 months notice.

Public Sector:
There used to be a bonus for public sector workers who got to work on time
There used to be a bonus for public sector workers who had to use elevators in the course of their working day

Salary structure:
14 salaries in public and private sector. Public sector workers employed in the house of representatives get 16 salaries

Corruption:
An ex minister apparently had 185 million Euro stashed in various bank accounts. Nothing will happen as under the Greek constitution, politicians are immune from prosecution.

 

[scose-no-doubt]

The benefits are intangible... It's like if you were to ask what the US gained by letting the state of Missouri join. Nothing obvious (in fact, the richer states are still paying for it), but most Americans would say there's value. Moreover, there's evidence that convergence (i.e. poorer states getting wealthier) is real, so there's all sorts of potential future benefits.

All a bit risky and uncertain from an accounting perspective. I'd prefer a nice low yield bond any day.

 

[Pazienza]

I worked in Greece for a few years so here's a couple of example of where the Greek worries comes from:

Collective employment agreements:
Under the old regulations, any employer who wanted to fire an employee after I think 12 years of employment had to give 48 months notice.

Public Sector:
There used to be a bonus for public sector workers who got to work on time
There used to be a bonus for public sector workers who had to use elevators in the course of their working day

Salary structure:
14 salaries in public and private sector. Public sector workers employed in the house of representatives get 16 salaries

Corruption:
An ex minister apparently had 185 million Euro stashed in various bank accounts. Nothing will happen as under the Greek constitution, politicians are immune from prosecution.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Corruption:
An ex minister apparently had 185 million Euro stashed in various bank accounts. Nothing will happen as under the Greek constitution, politicians are immune from prosecution.

It is cheaper for the tax payers to offer politicians easy bribes than to force them into scheming something big, expensive, and useless in order for them to take a small cut from it. I like the greek system.

 

[Pazienza]

It is cheaper for the tax payers to offer politicians easy bribes than to force them into scheming something big, expensive, and useless in order for them to take a small cut from it. I like the greek system of making love.

Really? Well, that's fine, but it's nothing to be proud of. Enjoy yourself by all means, but if you want to discuss it you'd probably be better off over here:

http://forums.queeruk.net/

 

[Pat494]

I worked in Greece for a few years so here's a couple of example of where the Greek worries comes from:

Collective employment agreements:
Under the old regulations, any employer who wanted to fire an employee after I think 12 years of employment had to give 48 months notice.

Public Sector:
There used to be a bonus for public sector workers who got to work on time
There used to be a bonus for public sector workers who had to use elevators in the course of their working day

Salary structure:
14 salaries in public and private sector. Public sector workers employed in the house of representatives get 16 salaries

Corruption:
An ex minister apparently had 185 million Euro stashed in various bank accounts. Nothing will happen as under the Greek constitution, politicians are immune from prosecution.

No wonder the Greeks are broke

I think it really highlights the inadequacies of democracy. Their Unions are completely out of control and the politicians can't/daren't say NO

Years of Socialism - and now reaping the disaster !!

 

[counter_violent]

No wonder the Greeks are broke
Years of Socialism - and now reaping the disaster !!

Yep and thats what socialism does...drags everyone down to the lowest level.
Sounds a bit like the comprehensive school system over here.

 

[FXCC]

I can remember a conversation I had with a Bulgarian friend years ago. Something along the lines of "Venco, what was it like to have the same guy in charge (Shivkov) for 35 years?"

Answer was - "just like Greece - it's either Karamanlis or Papandreou".

 

[Atilla]

Nothing to do with socialism. Just fraud and bad leadership.

Look at US and Europe for goodness sake. The biggest mess was one of the Republicans from Raegan to Bush to Bush each Republican spent a fortune on oil, wars and banks...

Bad management is bad management irrespective of any ism.

Castra and Chavez seem to have done better and not got caught up on this ****.

Tories hardly have a reputable handle.


This is typical stuff where one has to find a scape goat / coat / boat to leave a sinking system. If it ain't the scrounging foreigners its socialism. What next the journalists and the police. Don't mention bankers and politicians. Lemme guess they are all socialists too.

I guess when the money is flowing in all those ******s in Brussels with bent accounting practices all doing the same in all other countries too simply turned a blind eye.


Pat I recall you were singing a different tune regarding Ireland... Would I be wrong in suggesting you are being selective with your principals... :cheesy:


Rant on - it's the weekend.

 

[Pazienza]

Nothing to do with socialism. Just fraud and bad leadership.

Yes it does. You are right about fraud and bad leadership though - they're both inevitable under the socialist system we have.

Look at US and Europe for goodness sake. The biggest mess was one of the Republicans from Raegan to Bush to Bush each Republican spent a fortune on oil, wars and banks...

Reagan was one of the greatest men of the 20th century, and socialists hate him because he exposed the fallacy of their Weltanschauung, which up till then had been becoming widely accepted.

As for the other recent presidents, Carter, Bush, Clinton, Bush's Idiot Son, and The Token Black Guy, they are useless motherf***ers par excellence who have done / are doing irreparable damage to a once-great nation.

Bad management is bad management irrespective of any ism.

Very true.

Castra and Chavez seem to have done better and not got up on this ****.

Do you really believe that? Castro's lies are well-known for what they are, and if you actually experienced Venezuela as I have you would take a different view of the deranged loon that is Chavez.

Tories hardly have a reputable handle.

I agree. The Tories are as useless as a chocolate tea-pot in an @rse-king contest. I loathe and despise them and heartily long for the day when the country wakes up and sees them for the band of self-serving, incompetent b@stards that they so obviously are.

They are also a very anti-British party that is becoming increasingly indistinguishable from the other two main gangs of muppets. They are not Socialists, but they are I suppose the successors to the socialists.


This is typical stuff where one has to find a scape goat / coat / boat to leave a sinking system. If it ain't the scrounging foreigners its socialism. What next the journalists and the police. Don't mention bankers and politicians. Lemme guess they are all socialists too.

I guess when the money is flowing in all those ******s in Brussels with bent accounting practices all doing the same in all other countries too simply turned a blind eye.

Most of the eurocrats running the continent into the ground are socialists.


Pat I recall you were singing a different tune regarding Ireland... Would I be wrong in suggesting you are being selective with your principals... :cheesy:


Rant on - it's the weekend.

Hell yeah baby, fire up the blender!

 

[Pat494]

Pat I recall you were singing a different tune regarding Ireland... Would I be wrong in suggesting you are being selective with your principals... :cheesy:


Rant on - it's the weekend.

Me rant ?

Well OK I admit I do make a point or two occasionally, but only when it's a full moon

 

[Splitlink]

Hell yeah baby, fire up the blender!

You don't like socialists nor conservatives. Who remains ( I was going to say left) ?

What it amounts to is that it is up to us but, unfortunately, most of the time we can't be bothered.

We are sloppy with our moral standards with the result that we have Rupert Murdoch and his greasy family, Brooks, Colsons and other friends. This is all our fault. Murdoch has not bothered his **** to come over here for the closure of NOTW. There is something else. Not BSkyB---something else, that we don't know about , yet.

We are being led by our noses, whether we are conservatives, socialists, republicans or democrats but corruption is the name of the game.

 

[Pazienza]

You don't like socialists nor conservatives. Who remains ( I was going to say left) ?

Not so Split, a little more attention to detail is called for. I don't like Socialists - but I have known a number of socialists that I have liked immensely.

I have no problem with conservatives - I am one, after all - but Atilla didn't mention conservatives, he was talking about Tories, who on the whole are the scum of the earth.

Who remains? A good question. Nobody, in my opinion. In much of the West we no longer have politicians or political parties, we have a political class.

In politics, the lazy tribal behaviour of the public is shocking, but I see little prospect of change. A good start would be for people to stop voting Tory (we will never have another conservative government whilst the Tory party exists). Once they have collapsed, I see little chance of Labour surviving, and perhaps then the way would be clear for real political parties to emerge.

Until those two great stumbling blocks to democracy and sound government are removed, we will remain mired in our current swamp of decline.

 

[Pat494]

This country is becoming like a 3rd world banana republic. Corruption and sleaze in high places, crime and sloth in the lower regions.

I wasn't too surprised to see a story last week about £6billion of Army equipment has disappeared into thin air. I mean thats a lot of boots, rifles etc.

The Law has lost its authority and politicians have lost the respect they used to have. Perhaps its the natural way that the scum floats to the top. Cameron's judgement has been found lacking yet again. We have little moral authority left to accuse others of blatant corruption.

Every group is out to feather its own nest imho

ok ok I'm having another little rant. But if everyone keeps quiet like in France then the b*stards get away with more and more.

 

[Splitlink]

In politics, the lazy tribal behaviour of the public is shocking, but I see little prospect of change. A good start would be for people to stop voting Tory (we will never have another conservative government whilst the Tory party exists). Once they have collapsed, I see little chance of Labour surviving, and perhaps then the way would be clear for real political parties to emerge.

If the people won't change their voting habits then I see little prospect for any change at all. Why should there be? With respect to your opinion that if the Conservative government collapses Labour will collapse, too, That could be correct.

Here in Spain we have a case in point. The two countries are very similar in lots of ways. We have PSOE which can be called Labour and PP for Conservatives. This financial crisis has enabled PP to sweep the board in last months council elections. The PM is not standing for the next election (next May, I think) and I believe that PP will win by a large majority. The socialists have a policy of spending into an impossible debt situation. The conservatives one of getting the country straight by tax increases and unemployment. Each side complements the other so the man in the street goes through
a process of boom and bust. It's like a pendulum and as cetain as night and day but the political class survives, whether it is left or right. They just change sides in the House-

 

[Atilla]

This country is becoming like a 3rd world banana republic. Corruption and sleaze in high places, crime and sloth in the lower regions.

I wasn't too surprised to see a story last week about £6billion of Army equipment has disappeared into thin air. I mean thats a lot of boots, rifles etc.

The Law has lost its authority and politicians have lost the respect they used to have. Perhaps its the natural way that the scum floats to the top. Cameron's judgement has been found lacking yet again. We have little moral authority left to accuse others of blatant corruption.

Every group is out to feather its own nest imho

ok ok I'm having another little rant. But if everyone keeps quiet like in France then the b*stards get away with more and more.

That's fine Pat - when I had my rants many moons ago - I hold management and leaders accountable. Always have.

Tories decimated manufacturing and blamed unions.

The little guy always gets the blame. When it comes to management leading say introduction of Q&A testing and development, design and new models cars - that's like has nothing to do with it.

1. Management don't keep up with competition or new market developments
2. Cars don't sell cause they are poor design and quality.
3. Management continue getting whopping salary increases for doing poor shoddy work
4. Workers get less and less with more and more work
5. Motor industry collapses and unions take the blame.

Tories sell of national treasures for peanuts to pay back debt and now we have nothing else left to sell.

Tories introduce the big bang in banking and self regulation.

Tories decline 33% to the unions but allow open cheque book expenses to politicians.

All under Thatcher.

Lose $7bn in currency / reserve fiasco overnight with the pound crashing.

Time after time same ol ****. Labour with Blair emulates Thatcher's strong leadership. Declines to listen to the people.

Now we have Cameron and bent untrustworthy Clegg who'll sell his soul to the devil to have his name in bright lights.

Vince Cable seems to be the only decent one imho but he is kept on leash.


As for Greece it is simply the smallest in the pack of PIGS. Spain Italy and Portugal not far away. Remember - always pick on the little guy.


I reckon the ME, Asian, S.America and Africa will evolve and develop whilst the advanced economies will regress. Just circle of life I guess.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

I reckon the ME, Asian, S.America and Africa will evolve and develop whilst the advanced economies will regress. Just circle of life I guess.

Any reason why the advanced economies can't invade the ME, Asian, S.America and Africa to grab their stuff ?

 

[new_trader]

Any reason why the advanced economies can't invade the ME, Asian, S.America and Africa to grab their stuff ?

That is always a possibility with modern economists. When their policies fail (which is guaranteed) they take you to war.

 

[Atilla]

That is always a possibility with modern economists. When their policies fail (which is guaranteed) they take you to war.

Yes it is a possibility and high probability imho...

I would say it is one of the high probability reason/cause of why we are here also. Errrm that's $3.7 trillion reasons...

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/news-current-affairs/25995-terrorism-blame-america.html#post1603930


If one looks at the high success rate of Germany and Japan it is because they were forbidden from amassing large armies and weaponry post WWII. They focused on mass production consumer industries.


I reckon the USA depends on its big fist rather than big hands to do work but the main reckoning will be when nations have no other way of settling debt other than own each other. Will get very ugly.